Pulsing headlight - is this legal???

[Angel]

Sorry you've had it so rough lately, Hummingbird. Looks like you've been poked with a stick alot. Glad you don't have that little "beep" noise anymore. Although I did get a kick out of it at Oinkville.

[bull463]

My only proublum with them is the cars think that their cops right. Well as someone that has red lights and runs firetrucks every day at a distance the cars may think its just a bunch of bikes out there. I know firetrucks are alot bigger and my taho is to i can see were this could cause a proublum.

Bull463

[frogmaster]

Obviously, yours is adjusted for correct night riding or you would have changed it -

 

 

A "LEGAL Modulator" comes with a daylight / night sensor that DOES NOT allow "modulation" even if the driver forgets to turn it off at dusk (Yes I tested mine and it Auto shut off modulation). Again I see Driver Education is an issue on this subject .

 

Speaking of Drivers Education a friend of mine went to renew his driver license Auto / MC and that State no longer required a written drivers test or road test beyond the initial test they just looked for outstanding tickets and probably warrants too

Edited July 20, 2010 by frogmaster
spelling

[V7Goose]

I will run my HID on High beam for the simple reason of being seen. So I understand why people feel safer using them and I will not fault them for that, even if I get blinded for a second.

 

Brad

I don't suppose there is anything I could say that might possibly make it clear to you how dangerous and unintelligent it is to deliberately blind the sight of an oncoming driver?

 

No, I didn't think so. Sigh

 

I guess it is just an irrational hope I have that the obvious might somehow become clear to those of you who chose to do this.

 

Never mind - I'll just carry on tilting at windmills.

Goose

[BradT]

I don't suppose there is anything I could say

 

No, I didn't think so. Sigh

 

Actually you have. I have read your posts re this subject and I purposely went out at night to a small town and used the side of building to adjust them properly. They were way off.

 

Also there are times when I will run low beam in the day, but it depends on the road, my speed and the conditions.

 

Brad

[Skid]

I'm against the idea because it can be mistaken for yoo many wrong ideas. Either people will break their necks trying to get out of yout way, or they will think you are flashing your lights to let then pull across in front of you. Either its not for me....

[dingy]

I don't suppose there is anything I could say that might possibly make it clear to you how dangerous and unintelligent it is to deliberately blind the sight of an oncoming driver?

 

No, I didn't think so. Sigh

 

I guess it is just an irrational hope I have that the obvious might somehow become clear to those of you who chose to do this.

 

Never mind - I'll just carry on tilting at windmills.

Goose

 

The implication from your first line as it relates to the legal use of headlight modulators is ridiculous & not very well thought out.

 

Statement in your third paragraph is interesting. What is obvious? Irrational, yup, I agree with you there.

 

The headlight modulator does not increase the brilliance of the high beam head light at all. It dims it.

 

A large number of motorcyclist run in the daytime with the high beam illuminated, for the reason that it is much more noticeable than a low beam.

 

Agreeably, the high beam, by its very nature, is brighter than the low beam, but in the day time, it does not cause blindness, or cause the pupil in the eye to contract to the point of not being able to have functioning sight. This does occur at night time with the improper use of high beams.

 

But the statement that headlight modulators blind the sight of oncoming drivers in the daytime is unsubstantiated.

 

The fact that federal law permits them within specific operating ranges, and only on motorcycles, would seem to suggest that there is some data that points to there effectiveness.

 

As I stated in the second post of this thread, the use of modulators can be misinterpreted by an uneducated motorist. I do not know of any emergency vehicles that only use flashing headlights as their warning system.

 

 

Gary

[frogmaster]

The implication from your first line as it relates to the legal use of headlight modulators is ridiculous & not very well thought out.

 

Statement in your third paragraph is interesting. What is obvious? Irrational, yup, I agree with you there.

 

The headlight modulator does not increase the brilliance of the high beam head light at all. It dims it.

 

A large number of motorcyclist run in the daytime with the high beam illuminated, for the reason that it is much more noticeable than a low beam.

 

Agreeably, the high beam, by its very nature, is brighter than the low beam, but in the day time, it does not cause blindness, or cause the pupil in the eye to contract to the point of not being able to have functioning sight. This does occur at night time with the improper use of high beams.

 

But the statement that headlight modulators blind the sight of oncoming drivers in the daytime is unsubstantiated.

 

The fact that federal law permits them within specific operating ranges, and only on motorcycles, would seem to suggest that there is some data that points to there effectiveness.

 

As I stated in the second post of this thread, the use of modulators can be misinterpreted by an uneducated motorist. I do not know of any emergency vehicles that only use flashing headlights as their warning system.

 

 

Gary

 

Gary,

 

Educated and well said too . Most posts against modulators fall into 2 categories (Uneducated or Oldtimmer's Opinions based on feelings and not science) DOT would not allow this device if it impaired anyone's vision. Legal DOT Modulators do no harm and add to Rider Visibility. I'm sure some here have been the victim of Non-Legal "Flashers" or "Strobes" and have wrongly placed all Legal Modulators into the Against Category (wrongly so). Also let us not forget the Unaligned Headlights out there (This is the Riders Responsibility with or without a Modulator). Healthy discussion is a good thing and I bet some education is occurring too

 

Ride Safe

[V7Goose]

The implication from your first line as it relates to the legal use of headlight modulators is ridiculous & not very well thought out.

 

Statement in your third paragraph is interesting. What is obvious? Irrational, yup, I agree with you there.

 

[yada yada yada] - pointless body of quote snipped

 

Gary

Gary, that was a cute but dishonest way to try and take something out of context just because you do not like an opinion that differs with your own. In my response to BradT that you quoted and then misconstrued, I was careful to included the specific part of his quote to which I was responding: "I will run my HID on High beam for the simple reason of being seen." He also specifically mentioned the possibility of himself being blinded for a second. In my response I said nothing about headlight modulators. My response was specifically to his quote that I included, and I neither intended nor implied anything else.

 

And just in case you really cannot understand my other statement, I'll help you out. The "obvious" to which I referred is that it is dangerous to blind oncoming drivers. No matter how you chose to do it. That is pretty obvious to me, but I acknowledge that many riders do not seem to understand it.

Goose

[Hummingbird]

Sorry you've had it so rough lately, Hummingbird. Looks like you've been poked with a stick alot. Glad you don't have that little "beep" noise anymore. Although I did get a kick out of it at Oinkville.

 

Angel - I don't mind at all. When I'm being pick at, that just means that someone else is being spared but if it starts bothering me I'll just blame it on my favorite mechanic that will remain un-named Monty - oooops

[Guest tx2sturgis]

 

..... it is dangerous to blind oncoming drivers. No matter how you chose to do it. That is pretty obvious to me, but I acknowledge that many riders do not seem to understand it.

Goose

 

 

So your saying that an oncoming partially blinded cager crossing the yellow line towards me in a curve at night is a bad thing?

 

 

 

[Hummingbird]

Gary, that was a cute but dishonest way to try and take something out of context just because you do not like an opinion that differs with your own. In my response to BradT that you quoted and then misconstrued, I was careful to included the specific part of his quote to which I was responding: "I will run my HID on High beam for the simple reason of being seen." He also specifically mentioned the possibility of himself being blinded for a second. In my response I said nothing about headlight modulators. My response was specifically to his quote that I included, and I neither intended nor implied anything else.

 

And just in case you really cannot understand my other statement, I'll help you out. The "obvious" to which I referred is that it is dangerous to blind oncoming drivers. No matter how you chose to do it. That is pretty obvious to me, but I acknowledge that many riders do not seem to understand it.

Goose

 

Ok - now I'm confused. Are you saying that modulators blind oncoming or not ?? or is it just the HID lamp that blinds oncoming traffic ?? You rhetoric seems to touch on something but all I've managed to glean so far is that you don't like modulators and somehow oncoming traffic is or could be blinded.

perhaps it's the 3 additional lamps in the aftermarket gauges that is doing it.

[Sylvester]

I don't use headlight modulators, and I have no problem with those that do.

 

"That's all I have to say about that"

 

[V7Goose]

Ok - now I'm confused. Are you saying that modulators blind oncoming or not ?? or is it just the HID lamp that blinds oncoming traffic ?? You rhetoric seems to touch on something but all I've managed to glean so far is that you don't like modulators and somehow oncoming traffic is or could be blinded.

perhaps it's the 3 additional lamps in the aftermarket gauges that is doing it.

Gee, one poor old crotchety contrarian disagrees with y'all and you go for blood.

 

Sniff

 

Sniff

 

I think I'm just gonna go eat worms.

 

And after that I'm gonna teach young kids how to stand in the middle of the road and deliberately shine a real bright light into the eyes of anyone who drives towards them. THAT oughta keep 'em safe, right?

Goose

[hig4s]

. . . but in the day time, it does not cause blindness, or cause the pupil in the eye to contract to the point of not being able to have functioning sight.

 

This is incorrect! 40% of men over 50 have some amount of night blindness, which can also cause a person to lose focus when there is high contrast bright lights, even in the day time. It is not per-say blinding a person with light, but it still makes it so they can't see. I have had night blindness all my life, not just since I turned 50. I have a hard time focusing and seeing where I'm going, even during the day, when brights are in my review mirrors, let alone when they are coming straight at me.

[pick]

"As I stated in the second post of this thread, the use of modulators can be misinterpreted by an uneducated motorist. I do not know of any emergency vehicles that only use flashing headlights as their warning system."

Your right, most LE utilize multiple lighting systems on vehicles. However, motorcycles are a tad bit dfferent. The forward facing lights on motors are relatively close to the front headlight. Even with newer LED's, the bright white light of the headlight "washes" out the pulsating blue or red lights on the front crash bars. If you ever get a chance, go ask a motor officer to turn his emergency equipment on and stand a cpl hundred yards away, most all you'll see with be the pulsating headlight. Its the same on vehicles, usually the first thing you'll pick up on a LE vehicle coming at you is the wig wags, it is much more noticible than any of the other flashers on the vehicle. Thats how LE gets away with slick tops. Being in LE and a motorcycle rider, I LIKE to be seen. I NEED to be seen. New cars are much more soundproof and with stereos, air conditioning, cell phone and blackberrys, etc. running, you ain't hearing any siren till I'm on you. Pulsating white lights seem to reach the farthest and are most noticable. (as a side note, there is nothing more frustraing than running 110 in the left lane, everything ya got on full blast and the car ahead sees you and then just freking stops!!!!!!!!!!!! MOVE OVER!!!!!!!!!! ok, back to my rant)

That being said, on my venture I do run a modulating headlight and yes, it turns off at dusk. My harley is a different story, you'll hear that a 1/4 mile away..................... I don't feel the quick pulsating light hinders anyones sight, especialy in the bright sunlight of day. And if I'm in the left lane behind them and they think I'm LE behind them and they move over because of it, they shouldn't have been in the left hand lane in the first place! Not too much sympaty for them. I've yet to hear any stories or data about some poor, poor cage driver that was blinded by a motorcycle and run into at 70 miles an hour, or run off the road. If thats the case, 18 wheelers shouldn't be allowed behind ya at night. JMTC

[bmxndad]

I find myself looking away from the source, or beyond the source.

If I am doing that, then I am not looking at the bike they are on.

My wife has said the same thing.

[dingy]

This is incorrect! 40% of men over 50 have some amount of night blindness, which can also cause a person to lose focus when there is high contrast bright lights, even in the day time. It is not per-say blinding a person with light, but it still makes it so they can't see. I have had night blindness all my life, not just since I turned 50. I have a hard time focusing and seeing where I'm going, even during the day, when brights are in my review mirrors, let alone when they are coming straight at me.

 

I will defer to your medical condition on this one.

 

 

I think I'm just gonna go eat worms.

 

And after that I'm gonna teach young kids how to stand in the middle of the road and deliberately shine a real bright light into the eyes of anyone who drives towards them. THAT oughta keep 'em safe, right?

Goose

 

I devised a simple, but very unscientific experiment to see what my own reaction was to oncoming daytime bright lights.

 

I have projector bulbs on the bike that are somewhat more powerful than the standard bulb. I turned the bike on and with the high beams on, I knelt down to be on the same plane as the bike and looked directly into the beam from a distance of about 15 feet for about 1 second. I then looked at a distant object (across street), and I was immediately able to focus on the object.

 

I repeated above, looking into the beam for about 5 seconds. When I looked away again, I had no problem focusing on objects. I did however, from second try, when I closed my eyes, have a light image sensation for about 30 seconds.

 

From my own experience, I feel comfortable operating my bike with the high beams on during the daytime.

 

Is it distracting ( To cause to turn away from the original focus of attention or interest; divert.), I certainly hope so.

 

I want to distract someone from that cell phone, I want to distract someone from getting that sandwich out of the fast food bag. I want to distract someone from lighting that cigarette.

 

I do not however, as been referenced in previous posts, want to blind someone. This can be done by improper use of high beams at night.

 

The original intent of this thread was in reference to modulators. As previously posted, modulators are only legally permitted to dim the head light, not intensify it. Its intent seems to have one purpose. That is to draw other motorists attention to the head light. If they do this then the device has succeeded at its purpose.

 

I have a gut feeling that more bikers are saved by drawing other motorist attention to the bike, than are those injured by the situation that Bongobobby referred to in his post about a biker being hit because a motorist mistook his modulator for a turn signal, if that was indeed the case.

 

As I stated in the second post, modulators could be annoying to uneducated motorists. Maybe those of us that believe in the effectiveness of this device, should come up with a way to help educate them, as well as our own members. This is a tool that can save lives, if it is understood and properly used.

 

Gary

[hig4s]

I then looked at a distant object (across street), and I was immediately able to focus on the object.

 

 

Just as a comparison, when you walk into a movie theater from a bright sunny day, can you still see well enough to find your seat, and when you leave back into the can you just walk out or do you have to shade your eyes for a minute or two before you can see again?

[BuckShot]

I remember when Jap. bike first started having the headlights on all the time. I also remember when car came out with daytime running lights.

At first both were very visable--now how many people are use to it and don't notice. Now you see car's without daytime running lights.

I do notice a difference when on the Ultra with the front running lights on in the daytime with cars stopped at intersections. They seem to notice me more than when on the VR. People get used to seeing things and don't notice them after awhile. How many riders are now wearing construction vests so the are more visable? Ohio was thinking of trying to pass a bill that made it a law that MC riders had to wear one. Don't like that idea.( I don't look good in floresent orange or green.) If it helps you get seen and is legal then by all means use it if you want.

[BEER30]

I run a modulator when conditions dictates to use it. Not behind in a group, not at night time as it will not activate, not in slow moving traffic, not at a stop in traffic, not at sunset or wee early hours where the headlight's brightness does appear sensitive (though too many people are still driving in their sleep), and not in the drive-thru at a fast food joint.

I run them in heavy traffic, rush hour, parades, in the lead, and when ever I feel like it! Too many close calls (combat driving) living in or being around a Military Base. Here at Camp LaBoom, Fayettenam, Ft. Get out of the way or be dragged(Bragg). Being on the coast where tourist do more rubbernecking than watching the road. Hell , I'm more distracted at the Big BOOBs and butt floss than modulating headlights!

I've lived in Houston before. I'll take any advantage I can get to be noticed. Been driving I-40 through Raleigh, Winston-Salem, and in DC. To tell you the truth , I rather take my chances driving at night with a herd of deer on both sides of the road. So somebody get's PO'd...... Well, they can just get over it.

One of our employee's mom is a driver's education instructor. She asked me to come into the class discuss MC topics. The headlight modulator was one of the topics I pick to discuss. Though it was never mentioned in the DE books , 2 out of 16 students knew what it was as their parents have them on their scoots. After the discussion, the remaining students were happy to learn about them and somewhat agreed that they have a purpose.

Now for those whom have vision issues. I hope you have stick skin for what I have to say. If you have an issue that impairs you ability to see, you either need to get help to correct it, or be prepared for evasive action , or get off the road as a precaution to avoid an accident of any circumstance. I'm not trying to be mean , just being concerned for all. Whether it be a headlight modulator or sunlight reflection off of chrome or glass from buildings or other vehicles. I remember in Houston of all the highly reflective glass buildings that reflected the sun onto oncoming traffic! Has anyone thrown any bricks into them yet ?

 

Anyways , I hope I didn't PO anybody as I just had to somewhat vent . So I will go get me 2 scoops and chase it down with a BEER now.

 

BEER30

[dingy]

Just as a comparison, when you walk into a movie theater from a bright sunny day, can you still see well enough to find your seat, and when you leave back into the can you just walk out or do you have to shade your eyes for a minute or two before you can see again?

 

The example you cite is not a valid comparison.

 

We are discussing DAYTIME use of modulators & high beams. Walking into or out of a dark room is not at all comparable.

 

As beer30 stated above, there are numerous situations that one can drive into, and have a much brighter light in ones vision, than will ever be experienced by a driver seeing a high beam coming at them in daylight. An example being the sun, I was out riding tonight just before sunset, heading west, right into the sun that was low in the sky. This was what I would refer to as a difficult situation. But I was lucky, at no time was I blinded. Now had I been traveling the opposite direction on that road, with the sun to my back, and in the face of drivers coming at me, I would have been very concerned about their ability to see me and my meager 65 watt high beam headlight bulb.

 

Gary

[Snaggletooth]

Ok....I'm not going to jump in the deep end here but I want to say this. If the modulator would work on the 1st gen....I'd have one. They do get ones attention.

 

But in the meantime I'm pretty happy with what I got. Since doing Dingys H9 Hella head light mod, the two seperate head lights, I got things working in my favor. When coming into a situation where I might be NOT the most obvious vehicle coming into an intersection I simply thumb the hi-lo button up and down quickly a few times and yes, other drivers do take notice. It has saved me some possible agravation a few times this year. I think it's not so much the hi-low change as the wig-wag back and forth that catches their eye.

 

It's not on all the time and I can use it when I need it. Whatever works. But the whole point is that I got noticed before they made a move that might cause me grief. That is all I'm concerned with.

[Gary N.]

Another vote for NOT liking them! There was an incident where no one is sure, but a girl may have thought the pulsing light was a turn signal, and pulled out in front of a member, resulting in a fatality...

 

Well Bob, that was an unproven rummer started by someone on this site, who does not like modulators by the way. Yes the girl said I had my signal on, which I didn't. She was a 16 year old inexperienced driver, making a left turn at a T intersection at rush hour. Yes, she may have confused my modulating headlight for a turn signal, but I doubt it. I find it hard to believe how anyone could confuse a modulating headlight for a turn signal. There's nothing I can say here that will change the outcome of this debate and we'll never know whether not having one on my bike that day would have changed anything. I don't think so, and I continue to use one.

[saddlebum]

Well said. And it amazes me that the original poster, being a motorcyclist, did not know what it was.

 

Personally I think the above statemant was a little harsh. No one knows everything and one of the purposes of this site is to share information and educate each other. The question was a valid question from a member, looking for answers and opinions. What was wrong with that.

Regarding these lights I do believe its a bit of a catch 22. Yes they make you more noticable and save your hide every now and then, and we are all in favour of keeping our hides. Yet at the same time I have been in group rides were I have found the flickering of these lights in my rear view very distracting, and can well imagine some one in a cage being distracted to the point of of not paying attention to what is in front of him, which could easily be another motorcycle. Just saying. As far as my own opinion goes, I am still sitting on the fence on this one.