Camp Fuel V/S Sea-Foam???

[Yammer Dan]

Anyone got any info on the facts that Camp Fuel has the same ingredients as Sea-Foam? Tried to ask this question at Maint Day and didn't care much for answer I got so I'll take it to the experts. If Camp Fuel has the same ingredients as Sea-Foam what is it missing? Could we make up a cheaper Sea-Foam? We don't have the 44 stuff around here and I really don't want to know about it. I have found Sea-Foam to be some great stuff but they are pricing themselves out of the market or at least my pocketbook. But I bought a gallon this spring. I have been mixing things to try to come up with something that works as good but little afraid of some of the harsher ones. Any Ideas???

[skydoc_17]

Hey Dan,

I have both the Camp Fuel and Seafoam here at the shop in gallon cans, the cleaning ingredient that is in Seafoam is Naphtha along with a lubricant. The Camp Fuel is just Naphtha, Period! If I have Carb. parts that are just nasty dirty, I start out with the Camp fuel. I also do the Carb. Float Bowl Flush with the Camp Fuel. On my own bike, I use only the Seafoam in the gas. The camp fuel is an excellent cleaner, but unless your Carbs. are really gummed up, it is a bit strong, and there is no lube in it.

Just my thoughts,

Earl

[Yammer Dan]

What is the lube?? Camp Fuel and a good shot of Marvel Mystery Oil?? Sound close?

Thats what I have been mixing along with a little Berrymans Chem Tech. Little of this little of that....

[V7Goose]

Anyone got any info on the facts that Camp Fuel has the same ingredients as Sea-Foam? Tried to ask this question at Maint Day and didn't care much for answer I got so I'll take it to the experts. If Camp Fuel has the same ingredients as Sea-Foam what is it missing? Could we make up a cheaper Sea-Foam? We don't have the 44 stuff around here and I really don't want to know about it. I have found Sea-Foam to be some great stuff but they are pricing themselves out of the market or at least my pocketbook. But I bought a gallon this spring. I have been mixing things to try to come up with something that works as good but little afraid of some of the harsher ones. Any Ideas???

Why didn't you care much for the answer? Was it incorrect, incomplete, or maybe it just wasn't what you wanted to hear?

 

I suspect I'm at least one of the ones who gave you the answer you didn't like - maybe the only one - I do not know. I probably insulted you on the subject too, but if I did, it was not intentional - I just know I have a tendency to affect people that way when I just go straight to the facts instead of spending time on the touchy-feely stuff.

 

But I'll give you the answers again, even though you have already seen them and taken part in this discussion last year:

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32679&highlight=naphtha

 

In my post in that thread ( #28), I specifically identified the differences based on an examination of the MSDS. In short, camp fuel is naphtha, Sea Foam contains some naptha, but less than 30%. I also noted that the term "naptha" seems to be more a generic reference to a type of solvent than a specific chemical, so naphtha from source A might not be the same stuff as naphtha from source B, similar to the way one container of gasoline is not the same as another.

Goose

Edited July 3, 2010 by V7Goose

[gibvel]

Dan, The MSDS says the ingredients are:

 

Pale Oil - 40.00 - 60.00 % by WT.

Naphtha - 25.00 - 35.00 % by WT.

IPA - 10.00 - 20.00 % by WT.

 

http://www.seafoamsales.com/component/option,com_rokdownloads/Itemid,17/view,folder/

IPA is Isopropyl Alcohol

pale oil has been said to be mineral oil but I'm not sure on that one. The only thing I could come up with is:

"A base or process oil refined until its color, by transmitted light, is straw to pale yellow".

[Freebird]

Well here's my opinion....not that anybody asked for it.

 

I don't know how often you folks are using Seafoam but I don't think it needs to be used that often. I use it twice a year. Once in the winter when I know that the weather is going to ground me for a couple of months. I go to the gas station, add a can of Seafoam and fill the tank. That's all I do to winterize the bike except for putting it on the trickle charger.

 

In the spring, I run out that tank of gas and then a couple of tanks later, I run another can through it. So, two cans a year is all I use.

 

Now I realize that Seafoam is a bit pricey but using two cans a year, I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure out a cheaper formula.

[Flyinfool]

FWIW

As far as the camp fuels go, as was mentioned in the other thread, they are mainly Naphtha.

But I know that there is a significant difference between brands.

For a while we were experimenting with camp fuel as a fuel for small 2 cycle engines.

Using the same oil mix there was a huge difference in how the engines ran with Colman vs Ozark brands.

This confirms the statement in the other thread that all camp fuel, aka naphtha, is not created equal.

 

The seafoam has IPA in it which does more than just suck up moisture. IPA is also a solvent and it burns quite well, Ever notice how many race cars burn alcohol. Yes most gas that you can get since 1995 has up to 10% ethanol in it and should do the same as the Seafoam for moisture.

 

Seafoams main ingredient is oil. I am not sure what the oil does in the grand scheme of things but it may be there to lubricate those parts that you just cleaned up. Will any old oil do the same job, Who knows.

[KiteSquid]

Here comes my $0.025 worth...

 

 

 

Here is what I have learned by reading Sea Foam's web site located HERE, the MSDS for Coleman Camp Fuel, Wikipeda and Answers at Yahoo.com.

 

 

Sea Foam was first produced in the 1930s as an additive for boat fuel to stop rusting of fuel tanks, to make fuel store over winter and to remove gum and varnish from the entire fuel system. It also removes carbon deposits from valves and the combustion chamber. Now remember that some boats are stored in slips on the water where the fuel is now in what can be a high humidity, hot, cold, (temperature swings) environment which is very bad for gasoline......

 

Sea foam has three uses.

 

1: Fuel dryer

 

2: Fuel stabilizer

 

3: Fuel system cleaner

 

 

Now to take figure out what the three ingredients on the MSDS do for us and if they are needed in our motorcycles today.

 

1: Fuel dryer: Sea Foam contains 10-20% Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) that the article at Wikipedia HERE has this to say:

 

Isopropyl alcohol is a major ingredient in "gas dryer" fuel additives. In significant quantities, water is a problem in fuel tanks, as it separates from the gasoline, and can freeze in the supply lines at cold temperatures. It does not remove water from gasoline; rather, the alcohol solubilizes water in gasoline. Once soluble, water does not pose the same risk as insoluble water as it will no longer accumulate in the supply lines and freeze.

 

liquid water will also rust out bare steel like the insides of the fuel tanks on our bikes.

 

IPA is no longer needed as a "gas dryer" as MOST gasoline sold in the US has 10% ethanol added at the plant and it does the same function.....

 

 

2: Fuel stabilizer: Sea Foam contains 40-60% pale oil which is used as a fuel stabilizer.

on the Gasoline page at Wikipedia HERE. There is too much data to post to this thread so I recommend you read the section on Stability.

 

If you store your bike with a full fuel tank and don't let it sit for more than two months, fuel stabilizer is probably not necessary. If you were to store it longer, you should add a special purpose fuel stabilizer like STA-BIL HERE or you could use a multi purpose product like Sea Foam. I use Marine Formula STA-BIL in my small engines and gas cans all year long. I only use it in my motorcycles over the winter when I get less riding in and a tank of fuel may get stored for three months or more.

 

So the fuel stabilizer component may or may not be useful for you......

 

 

3: Fuel system cleaner: Sea Foam contains 25-35% Naphtha. Once again there is a lot of good information at Wikipedia on Naphtha. Click HERE to go there.

 

Coleman Camp fuel is 100% Naphtha and the MSDS is HERE.

 

If you want to clean your fuel system you can use Camp Fuel at approximately $10 per gallon or Sea Foam at approximately $55 per gallon. Remember that Sea Foam is between 25 and 35% Naphtha while Camp Fuel is 100% Naphtha so you will use 1/3 or 1/4 as much at about a 5.5:1 price ratio by volume. SO once I did the math it is somewhere between a 15.71428571

and 22:1 cost verses cleaning ability ratio. I wish I could get that kind of return at the bank.....

 

 

What stated me down this path was the article HERE I have redone some of his research and have made a few corrections.

 

 

In summary, if you are using Sea Foam to clean your fuel system you are probably spending too much money verses Camp Fuel. (I keep a gallon of Camp Fuel around to run a camp stove for emergency cooking when the power goes out..... I picked up a NEW in the box camp stove at a thrift store for $10 and have used it at least ten times) If you are using all three of Sea Foams components you are probably spending too much money, but is IS covenant......

[Yammer Dan]

My mixture of Marvel Mystery oil and Camp Fuel should be a good cleaner then. Need to add a little Isopropyl Alcohol maybe.

[Dragonslayer]

This is all very interesting and enlightening. I never knew. I have been using Sea-foam mostly because many of you swear by it but the price has always made me uncomfortable.

 

My question is: Does Naptha have a shelve life. I have gallons of it in my shop bought to use for a cleaner for painting purposes. I'd like to use it up if it's still good now I have a new purpose for it.

[Yammer Dan]

This is all very interesting and enlightening. I never knew. I have been using Sea-foam mostly because many of you swear by it but the price has always made me uncomfortable.

 

My question is: Does Naptha have a shelve life. I have gallons of it in my shop bought to use for a cleaner for painting purposes. I'd like to use it up if it's still good now I have a new purpose for it.

 

This was what I was digging at Bob. I have bit my tongue and pulled my fingers back. Most of the answers have helped me with what I was looking for. Great answers as usual on here. I'm thinking a mixture of Camp Fuel and Marverl Mystery oil would make a great working cleaner to use in the shop. Didn't want anything that would be to harsh on the seals and rubber parts. With the price of Sea-Foam save it and do as Don (and I)do and use it in the Spring or to store it for winter. But I used it any time bike acted up during the year. Seems my area is full of people that sell dirty gas. Just trying to save a few bucks. That retirement check is hard to get used to. Thanks to Those with the great answers as always.

And I won't waste my time responding to others.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Yammer Dan

[Yammer Dan]

My cost on these ingredients

 

Sea_Foam about $52.00 a gallon

 

Marvel Mystery Oil little less than 4 bucks a quart.

 

Camp Fuel about 8 bucks a Gallon

 

BerryMan's Chem Tech 3 bucks 12 oz can.

 

Sea-Foam is a great product and I know all about the cost of oil. But If I can come up with something that will do the job cheaper I will quit being a spokesman for them.

My biggest fear was using something that would be too harsh on the seals and rubber pieces in the carbs.

[Squeeze]

So Dan, what's the Problem, dig up some old O-Rings and Gaskets, measure them for their Sizes and dump them into the Fluids you planning to use.

 

If the O-Rings didn't change their Size or decompose after a Week and same goes for the Gaskets, you're good to go ... At least as a preliminary Finding. You could mix a fourth Jug and compose the Mixture you're targetting at and test that too.

 

Keep the testing Parts on the Jugs for longer and watch what happens on a regurlar Basis.

 

 

Nothing wrong with some empirical Tests. :happy34:

[Yammer Dan]

So Dan, what's the Problem, dig up some old O-Rings and Gaskets, measure them for their Sizes and dump them into the Fluids you planning to use.

 

If the O-Rings didn't change their Size or decompose after a Week and same goes for the Gaskets, you're good to go ... At least as a preliminary Finding. You could mix a fourth Jug and compose the Mixture you're targetting at and test that too.

 

Keep the testing Parts on the Jugs for longer and watch what happens on a regurlar Basis.

 

 

Nothing wrong with some empirical Tests. :happy34:

 

 

Never thought of that Squeeze. Good Idea!! I'm getting ready to buy one of the Ultra-Sonic cleaners big enough to dip one carb at a time. I'll try it in it maybe.

[Marcarl]

So have you got any answers yet,,,,, I'm very Dutch and want to save as much as I can, and I want to use your stuff to start saving as soon as I can,,,,,, com come, what taking you so long,,,eh?

[Squeeze]

Never thought of that Squeeze. Good Idea!! I'm getting ready to buy one of the Ultra-Sonic cleaners big enough to dip one carb at a time. I'll try it in it maybe.

 

 

Can't say that this Mixture won't work in a Ultrasonic, but there are special Chems for

Ultrasonic Cleaners available. Ultrasonic Cleaners works with Cavitation, which Chems should not disturb or even deminish. I tested some of my standard special Cleaners in my Ultrasonics and had mixed Results. Some did work as half as good as expected and some didn't work at all. So, normally i use a Chem which is designed for industrial cleaning in Ultrasonics, special made ultrasonic Carb Cleaner (because of the Cost) only for very though Cases.

[KiteSquid]

I have a heated ultrasonic cleaner and I normally just use tap water.

 

Sometimes I add a drop or two of hand dish-washing soap from the kitchen.

 

I have NEVER had to use any chemicals.... yet.... AND I would NOT turn on the heat, just the ultrasonics, but I have not cleaned a carburetor that has not been ran for 20 years..... yet.

[Yammer Dan]

Very interesting... I'm working on it Carl!!!

Plain Tap water.

Chemicals.

Mix of carb cleaners.

 

Hey Squeeze. Any idea what the chemicals are??

[StarFan]

I just put a bottle of "Icelandic Black Death" in the tank when I store the bike for winter. That is the only use I have been able to find for this ugly tasting alcohol apart from serving the members of Venturerider.org a shot or two at Freebirds Maintenance Day,,,,,,,,At least I would never drink that S##T ,,,,,,,

[Freebird]

I'm glad you posted this. I was afraid that you thought it was GOOD. Didn't want to hurt your feelings. We will still drink it in your honor though.

[Yammer Dan]

I see how it works! A couple of shots and you don't care if the bike runs or not!!!

[Squeeze]

Very interesting... I'm working on it Carl!!!

Plain Tap water.

Chemicals.

Mix of carb cleaners.

 

Hey Squeeze. Any idea what the chemicals are??

 

I can give you all i know, but it won't help you in any Way, because they're all not sold in US or Canada. Our Laws in EU forbid about anything what works, nobody in US would buy that Stuff...

 

 

Hey Jonas, good to hear from you !!! :happy34:

 

But suggesting to use Brennivin as Carb Cleaner is mean !!!!! :rotf:

[Monty]

For those of you who have Rural King stores, they now have Sea-Foam on sale for $6.49 a can.

[Squidley]

Another option that I have used over the years is Berrymans B12 Chemtool. Seafoam has priced itself out on my pocketbook too, too bad as it works pretty good. B12 is about 3.50 a can and I can deal wit that, I know it doesn't pertain to your experiment, but I just wanted to throw this in there.

Dan, now we need to add a jr. chemistry set to that erector set for your boredom

[short-haul]

Well here my story messed my thumb up 6 weeks ago and been caging it last 6 weeks.

 

I put some road house pipes on bike and went for a ride last weekend. Did not get very far from 50-70 MPH 4-5 gear acted like it was leaning out real bad (first thought was I needed to re-jet carb because the muffler flowed to good).

 

:fingers-crossed-emoBut came to my senses and since the bike had sat 6 weeks,

I drained the tank then put 1 gal gas and a can of seafoam ran it 5 min shut it off.

 

Next morning put a gallon can with fuel in the side bag and took off ran like crap but I expected that. 24 miles later ran out of gas, pulled over and put the gal of fresh gas in and the bike ran like new,

 

Stopped off and fill my 1 gallon can rode 42 miles ran out put the next gallon of fresh gas in headed to the station and filled the bike up been running great since.( ran it out twice to get all the seafoam out)

 

Now 3 years ago I tried this with my 1982 gold wing and berryman's B-12 (same procedure)and had to rebuild the carbs.( the seals swelled up) I do not know if it was just a coincidence:confused24: ( the bike was 25 years old) or something in the berryman's and being mixed this strong. All I know is never had a problem doing it with seafoam mixed this strong.

 

I have used both and still do just wont use Berryman's mix this way in bikes.I still mix berryman's this strong in tractors and lawnmower and it works great in them and a third the cost.