Any carpenters out there?

[ablumny]

Not bike related !

 

Im in the middle of a 2nd floor bathroom remodel. The walls are demo'd back to the studs. The floor down to the plywood sub floor. I didnt expect to have to replace the plywood sub-floor but it's rotted enough that the whole floor need to be replaced.

 

I have a very good understanding of floor and wall construction but Im looking for advice from better educated people on the subject.

 

The sub floor obviously extends under the walls. Do I cut the plywood flush against the walls or do I come into the room a bit?

 

I imagine if I come into the room a bit, I'll need to support the edges of the old and new plywood with new framing between each joist and somehow along the side where the joist run parallel to the walls.

 

If I cut the plywood flush against the stud walls, I dont see how I'd support the edges.

 

Any experts have advice? Id appreciate it . Thx

Andrew

[Guest scarylarry]

Lot depends on this, wood thickness has change over the years and the new could be of less thickness.

I would take it to the wall so there are no unlevel places when the floor goes down..

My 2 cents

[cecdoo]

If I cut the plywood flush against the stud walls, I dont see how I'd support the edges.

 

 

You can take a 2x6 or 2x8 cut to length between joist and under existing wall. Drill 3/16" holes in wall plates and run 4" dwall screws down thru plates to catch 2x6 that is under wall, you can nail thru side of joists to catch other end of 2x6, does that make sense:think: I do it all the time, never had a call back. Craig

[Sylvester]

If I cut the plywood flush against the stud walls, I dont see how I'd support the edges.

 

 

You can take a 2x6 or 2x8 cut to length between joist and under existing wall. Drill 3/16" holes in wall plates and run 4" dwall screws down thru plates to catch 2x6 that is under wall, you can nail thru side of joists to catch other end of 2x6, does that make sense:think: I do it all the time, never had a call back. Craig

 

You have good advice. This is also what I do.

 

[Yammer Dan]

All good advice. Most important is flooring is same thickness where it will be walked on. And no unsupported joints in the flooring.

[BEER30]

If you can, post photos.

Also , is the wall in question a bearing or non-bearing wall? Does the wall run parallel or perpendicular to the floor joist? Are there other top plates(other walls under the opening) visible and how do they run? Any plumbing or electrical in the area.

Can you place another floor joist on a bearing wall and span across to a new cross joist with joist hangers? Will there be new plumbing oe electrical? Is the worst of the damage under the tub?

Sorry for all the questions. Can only advise on what info. is provided.

 

 

BEER30

[cecdoo]

If you can, post photos.

Also , is the wall in question a bearing or non-bearing wall? Does the wall run parallel or perpendicular to the floor joist? Are there other top plates(other walls under the opening) visible and how do they run? Any plumbing or electrical in the area.

Can you place another floor joist on a bearing wall and span across to a new cross joist with joist hangers? Will there be new plumbing oe electrical? Is the worst of the damage under the tub?

Sorry for all the questions. Can only advise on what info. is provided.

 

 

 

BEER30

 

 

If the house was built properly any load bearing walls will be on the floor joists, partition walls may be between them and are generally supported. Usually the worst of the damage is under the toilet, from a leaking wax ring. Just my 2cents, take it for what it cost ya. Craig

[BEER30]

If the house was built properly any load bearing walls will be on the floor joists, partition walls may be between them and are generally supported. Usually the worst of the damage is under the toilet, from a leaking wax ring. Just my 2cents, take it for what it cost ya. Craig

 

Not necessarily. I have seen some strange things in my time. Once the floor covering and the wallpaper are up, it's a buyers market.

 

BEER30

[Riderduke]

if i cut the plywood flush against the stud walls, i dont see how i'd support the edges.

 

 

You can take a 2x6 or 2x8 cut to length between joist and under existing wall. Drill 3/16" holes in wall plates and run 4" dwall screws down thru plates to catch 2x6 that is under wall, you can nail thru side of joists to catch other end of 2x6, does that make sense:think: I do it all the time, never had a call back. Craig

+1 for this repair.

[ablumny]

Thanks Guys.

Craig, If I understand, your suggestion is to lay a 2x6 or 2x8 on the flat with a portion under the wall plate, secured with screws thru the wall plate and on the other side thru the joists. If so, thats brilliant and I can do that in just about all bays.

 

Beer30: Good questions. Thx. Of the four walls, one is an outside wall. One runs perpendicular to the joists, the other two walls that run parallel to the floor joists happen to be sitting on top of floor joists however none of the three are supporting anything above them. The one perpendicular inside wall to the floor joists is not load bearing.

 

Anyway, I can do a lot of what you (and Craig) suggested. I have room to put cross joists in. Along the two walls where the joists run parallel, Very little in the way as far as in floor plumbing and electrical (lucky).

 

Here is a drawing of the room. THe red line is the outside of the bathroom. THe Yellow line is the inside of the room down to the studs. THe gray "boxes" on the outside and inside walls are craigs idea. The longer grey "boxes" along the two parallel walls are new joists I'd hang off of a new cross joist.

 

 

 

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_9EMyKcng_yA/TCYLFmfemMI/AAAAAAAADmY/rpBLHxOGuJU/s512/bath.jpg

 

I had a contractor in here yesterday (for other reasons). He suggested I not tear up the existing 1/2" plywood. Although mildly rotted near the toilet and under the tub, it was dry and not moldy. He might patch up those areas, then go over it all with new 3/4" plywood then top it with Durarock. This is a lot easier!

 

What do you think?

andrew

[Trader]

I was told that dry rot spreads....so you have to get it out.

I'm not experienced...just what I was told

[cecdoo]

I had a contractor in here yesterday (for other reasons). He suggested I not tear up the existing 1/2" plywood. Although mildly rotted near the toilet and under the tub, it was dry and not moldy. He might patch up those areas, then go over it all with new 3/4" plywood then top it with Durarock. This is a lot easier!

 

What do you think?

andrew

 

Your finished floor will be approx. 1.5" higher then the adjoining floor. 3/4" + 1/4" Durarock + thinset+ tile, its your call if it doesnt cause a tripping hazard. Craig

[BEER30]

 

Your finished floor will be approx. 1.5" higher then the adjoining floor. 3/4" + 1/4" Durarock + thinset+ tile, its your call if it doesnt cause a tripping hazard. Craig

 

 

That's an easy fix , just raise the ceiling another 1.5 " !!!!!!!!!!:rasberry:

 

 

BEER30

[ablumny]

Actually, regarding floor height, I removed a ~2" concrete and wire mesh base (old school) so even with 1/2" existing, 3/4" new plus durarock, I'd be about back to where I was.

 

Yes, Im thinking existing rotted areas will be cut out, replaced with new 1/2", then 3/4" over it all.

 

Thanks guys.

[ablumny]

Thx for the advice. Im going to repair the rotted areas, leave the rest, then new 3/4" over everything, then Durarock. That will solve this problem.

 

BUT I have a new problem! The drywall on the ceiling has some mold on it. I was intending on pulling down the drywall and putting up greenboard...until I went in my attic to check on a wiring plan and was reminded I had blown in insulation put in last year; the recycled and treated newspaper type of stuff. My attic is not tall, cant stand in it so imagine its 90 degrees outside, kneeling in a 100+ degree attic with roofing nails above you hitting your head while you attempt to rake insulation out of each joist bay. It got real nasty real fast.

 

So now Im wondering if I can spray some kind of mold killer (again) and greenboard over the existing sheet rock?? Thoughts?

 

 

thx again

andrew

[ablumny]

With floor problem solved, Im on to plumbing.

 

I need to replace what I now know is a not to code S trap under my tub. No vent off the trap is apparently the issue. However its original to the house and in the 14 years Ive been here, have never had an issue with smell or draining.

 

My plan is to cut this mess off of the 1.5", 4' pipe that runs into the main vent/drain.

To that, solder on a threaded adapter.

Then run a new PVC S-Trap in the same config as the old copper.

The connection to the 1.5" brass drain from the tub would be a compression fitting.

 

Anyone have advice, better idea?

 

thx.... (New Dunlop E3's coming btw!)

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9EMyKcng_yA/TC0NGSAd0uI/AAAAAAAADmw/zeQAYABSlwQ/s800/P7010849.JPG

 

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_9EMyKcng_yA/TC0NGuG96oI/AAAAAAAADm0/CePwNfUNSCI/s800/P7010850.JPG

[Guest scarylarry]

Looks like a crawl space is there, is there a crawl space?

[ablumny]

Looks like a crawl space is there, is there a crawl space?

 

Nope, thats the top of my kitchen cabinets.

[Guest scarylarry]

I'm going to have to say I'm lost on this..Sorry

[Yammer Dan]

Sounds like you have a good plan. Just remember of course that you want those connections to hold for years. Don't want last nights bath water in your Corn Flakes.

[OutKast]

OutKast is a licensed plumber and builder. The problem with the existing trap is the "drop" after the "p" section creating an "s". Cutting it all off just after it comes thru the joist and replacing with a p-trap is the correct fix. That is legal on a 1-1/5" line up to 6' away from the vented main. The problem that will create is now the lower part of the "p" will be down into the ceiling below. That is probably why the extra drop is there to start with.

 

Remember, all you connections must be permanent type (glued, soldered, or fernco type) UNLESS you have an access panel to get to it later, then you can use slip-fit (tapered washer with slip nut type)

 

S traps are no longer code legal, since the 60's sometime, as it is possible for them to self-siphon themselves dry, allowing sewer gas to escape.

 

Hope this helped.

[ablumny]

Thanks folks. Ive also been communicating on a plumbers forum and since posting this originally have brought the whole mess up to code. New P trap, new dedicated vent. The only prob I have is that the P trap now extends a bit into my kitchen above a cabinet. The concoction of 45's on the old trap was done to raise the p trap into the joist area.

 

no matter, Im code correct, the shower is back, the wife is happy! ....

 

thx for the advice. Happy 4th!

[Flyinfool]

No pics of your new code legal handiwork?

 

I am getting close to starting a major remodeling of the bathroom and need all of the ideas I can get.

 

I will have to gut everything to the joists, studs and rafters and start over without loosing use of the bathroom for more than a few hours at a time. should be fun....not.

But I have a plan......

[ablumny]

No pics of your new code legal handiwork?

 

I am getting close to starting a major remodeling of the bathroom and need all of the ideas I can get.

 

I will have to gut everything to the joists, studs and rafters and start over without loosing use of the bathroom for more than a few hours at a time. should be fun....not.

But I have a plan......

 

All my pics (so far) are online here.

 

I have a new respect for plumbers after this. Draining/venting mechanics and codes are not to be messed with by an amateur. There are plenty of forums out there for DIY'rs but this is serious stuff I discover. Plus all the connectivity issues between old work and new !! Drive ya nuts if you dont know what you are doing (me).

 

I had a half bath available and kept the tub/shower for as long as possible while i did the gut. However due to all of the problems I uncovered, we were without a shower for 2.5 days and the neighbors were getting tired of seeing us coming out of thier bathrooms !

 

If you are in a remove and replace mode with no code violations and no majors moves of drains, ok. Otherwise, Im hiring a plumber next time !!

 

good luck

ab