So about this wobble

[First_N_Last]

I didn't want to say it myself and keep this pissing contest going, but I just gotta support someone else who sees it!

Goose

 

Oh boy! A pissing contest?

 

Are we trying to...

piss the farthest

piss the highest

or who has the best writing skill in the snow?

 

JohnB

[BigBoyinMS]

This is where you lose all credibility. Perhaps you should just stop at cheap.

 

And you have the experience to know the handling isn't better? Until you do, where's your credibility?

[BigBoyinMS]

I didn't want to say it myself and keep this pissing contest going, but I just gotta support someone else who sees it!

Goose

 

Again, if piss is experience then y'all are dry. It's amazing how many can speak on something they know nothing about.

 

Almost like me saying Dunlop E3's are crap because I heard of one person having a blowout and crash within 60 miles of having a new one installed.

[gibvel]

Again, if piss is experience then y'all are dry. It's amazing how many can speak on something they know nothing about.

 

Almost like me saying Dunlop E3's are crap because I heard of one person having a blowout and crash within 60 miles of having a new one installed.

 

Ummm he did say...

 

I have ridden one, but not extensively. That ride did confirm everything I said above, but it doesn't mean a whole lot.

 

So he actually has ridden one and does know about how it handles.

 

It's just amazing to me to what lengths some people are willing to go to ride these things.

 

1. Most have to pump from 80 to over 100 psi of air into the suckers to get them to seat.

2. From what I've read most have to pump them up to something like 20% over rated maximum inflation to make them handle better.

 

and #2 is the crux here. By inflating a tire to that pressure all you're doing is making the profile of the tire more like a motorcycle tire so it handles better. In the process you're making the tire more unsafe by adding way more pressure than the manufacturer suggests (or for that matter will warranty the tire for I'm sure). To me, there goes your safety argument right there.

 

Then there are the photos I've seen of CT and MC tires in a turn. All the CT users say there is a larger contact patch on the road in a turn. Sorry, all the photos I've seen show different. Besides that, car tires have more grooves and siping than any MC tire I've seen so you can't count that as contact. There's a reason that all the race cars use tires without grooves and there's a reason most MC tires have way fewer grooves than car tires.

 

CT on a Motorcycle just doesn't make sense to me.

 

But more power to you guys. I'm not saying one way or the other and I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from using one, just thinking out loud here.

[Bummer]

And you have the experience to know the handling isn't better? Until you do, where's your credibility?

I don't need to fling male meadow muffins myself to know when one's being flung. I also don't need to talk people into doing something foolish to help me justify my own foolish actions. In fact, there are a lot of foolish things I've never done. Shoot myself in the head, step out in front of a moving city bus, park on railroad crossings, replace my motorcycle tire with a cheap-o car tire, all come to mind as examples. I'm not interested in being suckered in by fallacious arguments. You're the one making a patently preposterous claim.

 

You didn't say you could get by on a car tire. Had you limited it to that I'd never have added a comment. You said it handled better than a motorcycle tire. I'm calling "male meadow muffin". There's no issue of my credibility. I'm the cynic; the doubter. The question of credibility lies with you, who've made an incredible claim. That's how it works.

 

Let's find out. 135 north from 58 to 46. One of the twistiest roads in Indiana. Any time you're up for it.

 

Thursday after Potato Creek works for me. Or tomorrow. Or this weekend...

 

The gauntlet lies before you.

 

Gibvel, a couple more:

 

1 - car tires are made of harder compounds. That's why they wear longer. That's also why the have less grip.

 

2 - car tires' sidewalls are made to flex to help keep the flat part of the tire on the ground during a hard turn. That means they will flex during cornering if misused on a motorcycle, which explains why these guys brag of scraping peg. They're closer to the ground due to tire flex, why wouldn't they?

 

I've finally scraped peg. It took 60+ mph on a 25 mph exit ramp running links and Dunlop E3s with the rear shock pumped to 55 for stiffness.

 

In case there's any doubt, I don't care what tires others use, I'm just weary of seeing that "better handling" claim. Particularly when it's backed up with absolutely nothing but bluster.

[wizard]

Actually, a car tire has a softer compound then a motorcycle tire.

[gibvel]

Actually, a car tire has a softer compound then a motorcycle tire.

 

I've seen a post, on the web, with just these results from a durometer test. That's why I didn't say anything about it. But there are also other compounds and combinations of compounds that are specific to MC tires that that make wet and dry road grip better on MC tires.

[BigBoyinMS]

A few more points and I'm done with this thread.

 

After thinking about it, I think that from now on my only reply to those considering a CT or asking advice will be to advise them to ask those giving that advice what their actual experience on a CT is and to ignore those that have none. And I'll be taking my own advice after this since it's really dumb of me to argue with those that can only say "I read" or "I heard" or "I think" and not "I did". I did see where Goose says he has ridden a bike with a CT but a trip around the block really doesn't count... or was it at least a 100 mile trip or longer? I doubt it.

 

"CT's run 20% over max inflation". Misinformation

The only Darksiders that I have ever heard of that run above the max inflated pressure are those that are trying to correct the wobble instead of fix the problem. My Kumho is at 38lbs and the rated max is 41lbs.

 

..."that's why car tires have less grip". Misinformation

Find someone that has actually put some miles on both m/c tires a CT's and ask which tire has more traction. I doubt you will find any that will say the m/c tire. I know the Kumho on my bike has better traction than a m/c tire.

 

As for my saying "better handling"... I consider better traction in all situations (stopping, starting and turning; in the rain or dry) better handling and I've never had a wobble at any speed. I would feel like I was lying if I only said "handles as good as". (By the way, there are enough Darksiders out there scraping pegs if you want to look for them on KillBoy.com. I'm not into that and I definitely don't accept childish "I dare ya's".)

 

And lastly, I consider it really strange thinking when someone thinks that a better product at a lower cost is a bad thing. I also have a Road Star. If it makes you feel any better, I'll be paying as much to get a CT for it as I would for a m/c tire when the Avon wears out. But I still consider it less expensive considering all of the other benefits including extended tire life.

 

As I said, I'm done with this thread but at least those reading will get to see all the misinformation rebutted.

[Bummer]

Did some research. Turns out that high performance car tires are quite soft while high mileage car tires are much harder. The Dunlop E3 is a multi-compound with both harder and softer compounds.

 

It would appear that this one is rather uncertain. As such I withdraw that statement pending further unbiased data.

 

I do not consider it to be directly relevant to my primary comment, but more of a somewhat flippant side comment.

 

Sorry, I should have stuck to my primary point.

[Bummer]

... (By the way, there are enough Darksiders out there scraping pegs if you want to look for them on KillBoy.com. I'm not into that and I definitely don't accept childish "I dare ya's".)

 

Didn't think so. Offer still stands. We can do individually timed distance. The point is to prove your incredible contention of better handling. I only know of one way to do that: directly compare handling.

 

Missed the point about peg scraping, eh? If they all sit lower in turns due to sidewall flex when leaned over, they'll all scrape sooner. This is proof of poor design for use, not high performance operation. That would seem to be a point against your "better handling" argument.

 

And lastly, I consider it really strange thinking when someone thinks that a better product at a lower cost is a bad thing.

 

If the product were actually better you might have something to talk about. You've turned your back on an opportunity to prove your product of choice is better in some manner other than cost.

 

I also have a Road Star. If it makes you feel any better, I'll be paying as much to get a CT for it as I would for a m/c tire when the Avon wears out. But I still consider it less expensive considering all of the other benefits including extended tire life.

 

You miss the point entirely. It does not make me feel better to think that you are endangering yourself and those around you. In fact, it troubles me greatly. I'm also troubled by those you've drawn into this.

 

You are the one who keeps talking about lower cost and greater mileage, which equates to lower cost. I acknowledge your positive point: they're cheap. That's one for you.

 

I've challenged your argument that they're better handling, but you choose to pass on that one. As far as I'm concerned, that's one for me.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Didn't think so. Offer still stands. We can do individually timed distance. The point is to prove your incredible contention of better handling. I only know of one way to do that: directly compare handling...........

 

.........I've challenged your argument that they're better handling, but you choose to pass on that one. As far as I'm concerned, that's one for me.

 

 

I love a good pissing contest, and motorcycle bench racing can be fun, but this part seems to call out for comment from the spectators.

 

His idea of 'better handling' might be entirely subjective. Maybe he really means 'better than it was before', not 'better than every other tire on the market' It could be that his idea of better handling might mean his bike feels better, in turns, than it used to. Maybe its more stable, has better braking, or is more comfy to HIM. I don't think he meant that he thinks it is a high performance sportbike now. And either way, a contest such as you propose would be as dependent on rider skill as tire performance. An unskilled rider on a new Yamaha R1 might well be outridden by a skilled rider on an old ironhead Harley Sportster with 70's era tires. Its highly unlikely that you two have EXACTLY the same rider skills. So a head to head competition would mean nothing at best, and might cause injuries or worse.

 

So the tire-to-tire face-off seems like a bad idea to me...one that should never be attempted. These are NOT competition machines.

 

If you REALLY want to solve this, take the bikes to track days with one extra wheel and tire for each of you, with a 'broken-in' car tire on one wheel and a 'broken-in' motorcycle tire on the other wheel. Each of you do several laps (on your own bike) with each wheel/tire combo. See if each rider can do better with one or the other. Expensive? Sure. Time consuming? You bet. But will it settle things? I'm guessing it will.

 

When you post valid laptimes, then we can talk.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wizard]

It's kinda funny to hear someone talking about racing a touring bike in the twistys. How about loading the bike up like it was meant to be, full trunk, full saddle bags, and your wife or girlfriend on the back. I know I would probably lose that race, the 1st time I scrapped the pipes or the floorboards, I"d get ***** slapped on the back of the head!

[footsie]

I have the Avon Cobra on frount and kumho on back, 36 psi frount, 32 psi back.

I have no wobble issues, and my bike handles perfectly.

 

As to this thread, this is the darksiders forum, we have all read the points against the car, I don't see the need for any more, we like the ride and the one's that did not have went back to the MT.

 

The way I see it, the ones that disagree with the car and post here are just trying to start a pissing contest, there is no other reason for them to keep posting here.

 

Gregg

[First_N_Last]

I have the Avon Cobra on frount and kumho on back, 36 psi frount, 32 psi back.

I have no wobble issues, and my bike handles perfectly.

 

As to this thread, this is the darksiders forum, we have all read the points against the car, I don't see the need for any more, we like the ride and the one's that did not have went back to the MT.

 

The way I see it, the ones that disagree with the car and post here are just trying to start a pissing contest, there is no other reason for them to keep posting here.

 

Gregg

 

Damn it! Am I voted off the island? Again?

Nobody loves me...

 

 

Here is a thread you may find interesting with some facts & logs of my experiences & anothers. That thread has remained PISS free so far.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=47235

 

JohnB

[V7Goose]

I have the Avon Cobra on frount and kumho on back, 36 psi frount, 32 psi back.

I have no wobble issues, and my bike handles perfectly.

 

As to this thread, this is the darksiders forum, we have all read the points against the car, I don't see the need for any more, we like the ride and the one's that did not have went back to the MT.

 

The way I see it, the ones that disagree with the car and post here are just trying to start a pissing contest, there is no other reason for them to keep posting here.

 

Gregg

Well Gregg, you are very wrong. I'm sorry you don't see the need for these posts, but I'll try to enlighten you if your mind is still open enough on the idea of sharing both sides of the argument.

 

The absolute last thing I want is discord or a pissing contest. And frankly, I don't care at all what tire you put on your bike. The fact that I disagree with you and think your decisions are misguided and dangerous does NOT mean that I feel that need to try and change your mind. In fact, your mind is clearly closed on this subject, as is mine without new information, so nothing I post here is intended for you at all.

 

HOWEVER, we have new members every day, and many of them do NOT have closed minds. In fact, they come to this forum specifically looking for information so that they might actually make an informed decision instead of just blindly accepting anything you say or I say. So the reason I post here is to try and ensure that BOTH sides of the discussion are available to those who actually do care. And as I stated in post #5, based on the very limited information the OP gave us when he started this thread, it seemed quite possible to me that he was making his decision on very limited experience and several bad assumptions. So I WAS concerned about his decision if there was any possibility that he actually might want to understand a little more about the terrible tire that he used as a basis for comparison when he stated he was happy with the handling of the new car tire.

 

And even if he did not care at all, I was even more concerned about other members who might come here and see his faulty claim that all was good with his car tire without also having the information about how bad the tire was that he used a baseline for comparison.

 

So the way you see it is wrong. You do not have to like seeing the other side of this discussion, but I hope you can at least understand that my intent is only to try and help anyone who actually DOES want to see both sides. I am very sorry if that offends you, but I think the possible benefit for others might be more important than the alternative.

Goose

[buddy]

I'm out of popcorn so I got me some ice cream instead.....

 

Actually I had the Run flat Kumho CT on my GL1800 GW and it had an excellent ride!!

we rode with a fellow member going to Tennessee on their RSV and their regular Kumho CT was giving them fits RSV was all over the road could not keep it straight yet I had no problems what so ever with my CT, Seeing all the trouble our friends had with their CT on their RSV I decided for our RSV I'll stick with the MT.. Once the CT was replaced with a MT tire their problem went way....

 

Funny how some have no problem what so ever with the CT on the RSV yet others have nothing but trouble with theirs??

 

Note : the run flat CT has a very stiff sidewall so that made a big difference compared to the regular Kumho CT. theres no Run-Flat available for the RSV.....

Edited June 30, 2010 by buddy

[footsie]

Damn it! Am I voted off the island? Again?

Nobody loves me...

 

 

Here is a thread you may find interesting with some facts & logs of my experiences & anothers. That thread has remained PISS free so far.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=47235

 

JohnB

 

Have read and posted on that one, but my point has been made for me on this one.

this about up to the eyeballs.

 

Thanks

Gregg

 

PS I think we are going to be up your way in the fall, will give you a call and maybe we can meet up and ride.

 

Gregg

[Rick Butler]

Hey Guys,

 

I only have a couple of things to say on this issue, and I think TX2Sturgis has a valid point to make on how to determine which tire will handle better.....take them to the track.

 

I've already taken my bike to the track (see attached pictures) and I would hate to think what car tire would do with these lean angles and contact patches. I've also attached a picture of my Honda F4 track bike and you can see that both bikes have about the same contact patch.

 

And secondly, my favorite M/C quote: "The best you have ever ridden is the best you will ever know".

 

Carry on,

 

Rick

[footsie]

Well Gregg, you are very wrong. I'm sorry you don't see the need for these posts, but I'll try to enlighten you if your mind is still open enough on the idea of sharing both sides of the argument.

 

The absolute last thing I want is discord or a pissing contest. And frankly, I don't care at all what tire you put on your bike. The fact that I disagree with you and think your decisions are misguided and dangerous does NOT mean that I feel that need to try and change your mind. In fact, your mind is clearly closed on this subject, as is mine without new information, so nothing I post here is intended for you at all.

 

HOWEVER, we have new members every day, and many of them do NOT have closed minds. In fact, they come to this forum specifically looking for information so that they might actually make an informed decision instead of just blindly accepting anything you say or I say. So the reason I post here is to try and ensure that BOTH sides of the discussion are available to those who actually do care. And as I stated in post #5, based on the very limited information the OP gave us when he started this thread, it seemed quite possible to me that he was making his decision on very limited experience and several bad assumptions. So I WAS concerned about his decision if there was any possibility that he actually might want to understand a little more about the terrible tire that he used as a basis for comparison when he stated he was happy with the handling of the new car tire.

 

And even if he did not care at all, I was even more concerned about other members who might come here and see his faulty claim that all was good with his car tire without also having the information about how bad the tire was that he used a baseline for comparison.

 

So the way you see it is wrong. You do not have to like seeing the other side of this discussion, but I hope you can at least understand that my intent is only to try and help anyone who actually DOES want to see both sides. I am very sorry if that offends you, but I think the possible benefit for others might be more important than the alternative.

Goose

 

 

 

As usual everybody else is wrong and your right.

 

Gregg

[gibvel]

And Visa Versa.

[First_N_Last]

Have read and posted on that one, but my point has been made for me on this one.

this about up to the eyeballs.

 

Thanks

Gregg

 

PS I think we are going to be up your way in the fall, will give you a call and maybe we can meet up and ride.

 

Gregg

 

Please do give me a call & we'll try to meet up if I am in town.

 

johnB.

[Hummingbird]

As usual everybody else is wrong and your right.

 

Gregg

 

 

:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:

[1joeranger]

V7Goose may not have the most personable, or most popular responses but I do value what he has to say, cause he is backing it with a lot of experience! He is also right in trying to paint a complete picture for all, especially the new ones to this site. I think it takes a lot of courage to take a stand like that, so thank you V7Goose! By the way, I have a Kuhmo tire on my bike, notice a wobble at around 90, but still love the tire!

[gunboat]

hi ray & all

thanks for your post on this. i've been kinda seting back on this. but everyone here has an openion on the c/t and m/t tire issue. i for one am happy with my c/t. ken is a very smart man, kinda heavy on his openion on different subjects. but we learn from each other and i have saved a lot of money from the info here on this site. i will not and have not pushed the c/t on anyone but i will share all the info i have. pro's or con's as always being safe is the #1 issue here. much thanks to freebird as he made a darker slot for us to post our findings. we as darksiders need to help figure out this wobble issue. different things are working for us. what works for you may not work for me. i got over 40,000 miles out of my bfg c/t. now have over 12,000 miles on my kunmo c/t. we as ventureriders must respect and keep an open mind towards each other. thanks and i'll get off my now. best reguards to all

don c.

[footsie]

A few more points and I'm done with this thread.

 

After thinking about it, I think that from now on my only reply to those considering a CT or asking advice will be to advise them to ask those giving that advice what their actual experience on a CT is and to ignore those that have none. And I'll be taking my own advice after this since it's really dumb of me to argue with those that can only say "I read" or "I heard" or "I think" and not "I did". I did see where Goose says he has ridden a bike with a CT but a trip around the block really doesn't count... or was it at least a 100 mile trip or longer? I doubt it.

 

"CT's run 20% over max inflation". Misinformation

The only Darksiders that I have ever heard of that run above the max inflated pressure are those that are trying to correct the wobble instead of fix the problem. My Kumho is at 38lbs and the rated max is 41lbs.

 

..."that's why car tires have less grip". Misinformation

Find someone that has actually put some miles on both m/c tires a CT's and ask which tire has more traction. I doubt you will find any that will say the m/c tire. I know the Kumho on my bike has better traction than a m/c tire.

 

As for my saying "better handling"... I consider better traction in all situations (stopping, starting and turning; in the rain or dry) better handling and I've never had a wobble at any speed. I would feel like I was lying if I only said "handles as good as". (By the way, there are enough Darksiders out there scraping pegs if you want to look for them on KillBoy.com. I'm not into that and I definitely don't accept childish "I dare ya's".)

 

And lastly, I consider it really strange thinking when someone thinks that a better product at a lower cost is a bad thing. I also have a Road Star. If it makes you feel any better, I'll be paying as much to get a CT for it as I would for a m/c tire when the Avon wears out. But I still consider it less expensive considering all of the other benefits including extended tire life.

 

As I said, I'm done with this thread but at least those reading will get to see all the misinformation rebutted.

 

What size is on the back of your road star, and what size ct are you looking for it, Karren rides one and it has 16 on back. So I was curious about what you have found for it.

Gregg