So about this wobble

[screamstone]

So I have the kumho and pirelli rear reversed on the bike. Took her out yesterday and did s couple hundred miles. Lots of straight florida roads out to lake okeechobee and back, and a half hour in an empty parking lot trying the slow corners and U turns. No problems at all. I don't see what all the fuss is about

 

I do start to get a wobble around 85ish.. but not like head bearings wobble, it's kind of slower and oscillating. I did however just put on an F4 large shield, and I believe that's the main culprit. I prefer frame mounted fairings but that's not a mod i think I could handle!!! :-) I did so much to the bike at once, it's impossible to tell what single thing or combo is making changes.

 

I don't like to be at 85 (speedo, 80ish real speed) anyway, and don't mind it as the bike's way of saying "hey man... you're going FAST." Generally the bike handles about the same as before because I was on some pretty worn brickstones. The rear was pretty flat. Corners don't bother me, and I do mostly long highway rides. Few twisties here in South Fl.

 

For me- I'm happy...

 

How long do I break it in before I start experimentng with pressures?

[67mini67]

Same Here. I just did the conversion and have been real happy with the handling. Even handles gravel roads better! Good luck:thumbsup:

[V7Goose]

So I have the kumho and pirelli rear reversed on the bike. Took her out yesterday and did s couple hundred miles. Lots of straight florida roads out to lake okeechobee and back, and a half hour in an empty parking lot trying the slow corners and U turns. No problems at all. I don't see what all the fuss is about

 

I do start to get a wobble around 85ish.. but not like head bearings wobble, it's kind of slower and oscillating. I did however just put on an F4 large shield, and I believe that's the main culprit. I prefer frame mounted fairings but that's not a mod i think I could handle!!! :-) I did so much to the bike at once, it's impossible to tell what single thing or combo is making changes.

 

I don't like to be at 85 (speedo, 80ish real speed) anyway, and don't mind it as the bike's way of saying "hey man... you're going FAST." Generally the bike handles about the same as before because I was on some pretty worn brickstones. The rear was pretty flat. Corners don't bother me, and I do mostly long highway rides. Few twisties here in South Fl.

 

For me- I'm happy...

 

How long do I break it in before I start experimentng with pressures?

I guess the most important thing is that you think you are happy - after all, it is your bike.

 

But it seems to me that a high speed wobble is kinda self explanatory when you are looking for reasons for the "fuss".

 

And it doesn't surprise me at all that you think the bike handles pretty much like it did before if you had worn out Brickstones in it! That is the nastiest possible tire you could ever use on that bike, and it gets phenomenally worse as it wears flat. You are completely correct that the sharp edges on a worn Brickstone handle just like a car tire - they grab any sharp edge and imperfection of the road surface and try to jump them sideways, and the sudden rollover in any turn produces an instability and squirreliness that is not conducive to good control or confidence in many situations, especially emergency ones. I speak only from my own personal experience doing extensive tire testing with the RSV.

 

So if your goal was to ensure that your bike continued to handle the absolute worst that it ever could, nay, even worse than that, since you have managed to add a high speed wobble to that mess, then you made an admirable choice. I wish you all the best in maintaining your happiness.

 

Just like riding on those old Brickstone tires, it quite possible to ride the bike on a flat profile car tire, and even possible to continue telling yourself that you really don't WANT that bike to handle well, like it will with any set of GOOD motorcycle tires. But it is completely beyond my imagination why anybody would WANT to do that, just because it is possible. It is generally a rare situation for someone to consciously make the decision to deliberately change a machine to run worse or handle worse than it starts out. But that seems to be the case here, all to save $100 or $200 a year (and probably less). Considering the inherent danger in a poorly handling motorcycle, as well as the joy I personally get in riding a good handling motorcycle, the decision to make this change just totally melts my weak little mind when I try to understand the rationalizations I see.

Goose

[tsigwing]

I guess the most important thing is that you think you are happy - after all, it is your bike.

 

But it seems to me that a high speed wobble is kinda self explanatory when you are looking for reasons for the "fuss".

 

And it doesn't surprise me at all that you think the bike handles pretty much like it did before if you had worn out Brickstones in it! That is the nastiest possible tire you could ever use on that bike, and it gets phenomenally worse as it wears flat. You are completely correct that the sharp edges on a worn Brickstone handle just like a car tire - they grab any sharp edge and imperfection of the road surface and try to jump them sideways, and the sudden rollover in any turn produces an instability and squirreliness that is not conducive to good control or confidence in many situations, especially emergency ones. I speak only from my own personal experience doing extensive tire testing with the RSV.

 

So if your goal was to ensure that your bike continued to handle the absolute worst that it ever could, nay, even worse than that, since you have managed to add a high speed wobble to that mess, then you made an admirable choice. I wish you all the best in maintaining your happiness.

 

Just like riding on those old Brickstone tires, it quite possible to ride the bike on a flat profile car tire, and even possible to continue telling yourself that you really don't WANT that bike to handle well, like it will with any set of GOOD motorcycle tires. But it is completely beyond my imagination why anybody would WANT to do that, just because it is possible. It is generally a rare situation for someone to consciously make the decision to deliberately change a machine to run worse or handle worse than it starts out. But that seems to be the case here, all to save $100 or $200 a year (and probably less). Considering the inherent danger in a poorly handling motorcycle, as well as the joy I personally get in riding a good handling motorcycle, the decision to make this change just totally melts my weak little mind when I try to understand the rationalizations I see.

Goose

 

Kent,

 

I know quite well how you feel about the darkside. Do you have any first hand experience riding on a CT?

[V7Goose]

I do want to acknowledge that it is quite possible for someone who has never actually experienced this bike with good tires to honestly think it handles fine with either the Brickstones or a car tire. And since the OP's bike had worn Brickstones on it, that would seem to be a possibility here.

 

It is very common to see a new owner with stock Brickstones on their bike insist that they do not understand why the tires are so hated by other Royal Star owners - with nothing else to compare it with, and being swayed by the thoughts that this is really a huge heavy bike, it is quite normal to think that nasty handling is just inherent in the beast, and not the particular tires. I was one of those misguided owners when my bike was new, and I made several posts to threads where the Brickstone was being badmouthed to say that although I did recognize some of the complaints, overall, I thought he bike handled just fine. Boy was I misguided!

 

Without exception, every single one of of those owners of whom I know who thought their Brickstones were at least "acceptable" completely changed their tune after finally putting on a decent tire! Sometimes their eyes were so big from surprise and their silly ear-to-ear grin got in the way of understanding their amazement at just how great this bike really can handle. So if anyone reading this hasn't actually experienced the Royal Star with at lease one set of any of the tires that are generally recommended here, I strongly suggest you do that before deciding what is really good handling. In the end, it is still your decision, of course. I just hate the idea that maybe some people are making that decision without truly understanding it.

 

Ride safe,

Goose

[tsigwing]

I do want to acknowledge that it is quite possible for someone who has never actually experienced this bike with good tires to honestly think it handles fine with either the Brickstones or a car tire. And since the OP's bike had worn Brickstones on it, that would seem to be a possibility here.

 

It is very common to see a new owner with stock Brickstones on their bike insist that they do not understand why the tires are so hated by other Royal Star owners - with nothing else to compare it with, and being swayed by the thoughts that this is really a huge heavy bike, it is quite normal to think that nasty handling is just inherent in the beast, and not the particular tires. I was one of those misguided owners when my bike was new, and I made several posts to threads where the Brickstone was being badmouthed to say that although I did recognize some of the complaints, overall, I thought he bike handled just fine. Boy was I misguided!

 

Without exception, every single one of of those owners of whom I know who thought their Brickstones were at least "acceptable" completely changed their tune after finally putting on a decent tire! Sometimes their eyes were so big from surprise and their silly ear-to-ear grin got in the way of understanding their amazement at just how great this bike really can handle. So if anyone reading this hasn't actually experienced the Royal Star with at lease one set of any of the tires that are generally recommended here, I strongly suggest you do that before deciding what is really good handling. In the end, it is still your decision, of course. I just hate the idea that maybe some people are making that decision without truly understanding it.

 

Ride safe,

Goose

 

I'll take that as a no.

 

Put brand new Metzlers on mine, are they decent tires? I thought they handled great, right up until the rear gave out quite tragically with about 5k miles on it. The CT handles just as great, whether you believe it or not. Yes it is differnt, and I bet with as experience a rider as you are it would take about 5 minutes until you forgot it was a CT on there. I haven't changed my riding style any, still drag my floorboards (and it stills scares the cr*p out of me), still accelerate and stop the same (only stopping is actually better). For ME there is no compromise in running a CT.

[V7Goose]

Kent,

 

I know quite well how you feel about the darkside. Do you have any first hand experience riding on a CT?

I have ridden one, but not extensively. That ride did confirm everything I said above, but it doesn't mean a whole lot. I have no idea what tire it was, or how well it was set up, and even those of you who think the CT is a good idea acknowledge that some of them handle like cow pies. In my opinion, even the very best of them will handle horribly worse than any good motorcycle tire. You might reasonably call that opinion my "imagination", since I have not tested them, nor have I even ridden on more than one for a short time.

 

But here are my credentials - it is up to each individual to decide if they mean anything:

 

I HAVE been riding bikes for over 40 years, I HAVE put well over 500,000 miles on bikes with motorcycle tires, I HAVE over 80,000 miles on my 05 RSV (and over 100,000 miles on the RSV if you include my 07), and I HAVE done very extensive testing of lots of different tires on the RSV, including new and worn versions of each of them. I mount my own tires, so it is quite easy for me to change them just to test a tire. I have posted all the details of my testing and the conclusions to which I came in many many threads on this and other sites. On top of all that, I am a technologist who rarely just accepts what I hear, or even experience first hand; I am driven to research and understand those things. I firmly believe that I have much better understanding of both tire construction and motorcycle handling principles (as they apply to tires) than the majority of people who may frequent this board; although, I will not classify myself as an expert on that subject.

 

Now more opinion - based on all of that above, I personally feel that a car tire is dangerous and il-advised on a motorcycle, not only because they handle so much worse than modern motorcycle tires, but because they have a different rim diameter and bead shape than the tires for which motorcycle rims were designed. But I am not trying to harp on the technical dangers here - that subject has been beaten to death and those that want to ride on a CT have already decided that those facts mean nothing to them.

 

The OP stated that he thought his new CT handled just dandy, and then he proceeded to dismiss an extremely dangerous high sped wobble and favorably compare the handling he liked to what I personally DO KNOW is probably the worst possible handling he could ever experience with the RSV on a motorcycle tire. I felt those deserved some rebuttal for anyone who may come across this thread while still trying to decide if they wanted to risk a CT on their own bike. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify both my experience and the basis for my opinions on this subject.

Goose

[tsigwing]

I have ridden one, but not extensively. That ride did confirm everything I said above, but it doesn't mean a whole lot. I have no idea what tire it was, or how well it was set up, and even those of you who think the CT is a good idea acknowledge that some of them handle like cow pies. In my opinion, even the very best of them will handle horribly worse than any good motorcycle tire. You might reasonably call that opinion my "imagination", since I have not tested them, nor have I even ridden on more than one for a short time.

 

But here are my credentials - it is up to each individual to decide if they mean anything:

 

I HAVE been riding bikes for over 40 years, I HAVE put well over 500,000 miles on bikes with motorcycle tires, I HAVE over 80,000 miles on my 05 RSV (and over 100,000 miles on the RSV if you include my 07), and I HAVE done very extensive testing of lots of different tires on the RSV, including new and worn versions of each of them. I mount my own tires, so it is quite easy for me to change them just to test a tire. I have posted all the details of my testing and the conclusions to which I came in many many threads on this and other sites. On top of all that, I am a technologist who rarely just accepts what I hear, or even experience first hand; I am driven to research and understand those things. I firmly believe that I have much better understanding of both tire construction and motorcycle handling principles (as they apply to tires) than the majority of people who may frequent this board; although, I will not classify myself as an expert on that subject.

 

Now more opinion - based on all of that above, I personally feel that a car tire is dangerous and il-advised on a motorcycle, not only because they handle so much worse than modern motorcycle tires, but because they have a different rim diameter and bead shape than the tires for which motorcycle rims were designed. But I am not trying to harp on the technical dangers here - that subject has been beaten to death and those that want to ride on a CT have already decided that those facts mean nothing to them.

 

The OP stated that he thought his new CT handled just dandy, and then he proceeded to dismiss an extremely dangerous high sped wobble and favorably compare the handling he liked to what I personally DO KNOW is probably the worst possible handling he could ever experience with the RSV on a motorcycle tire. I felt those deserved some rebuttal for anyone who may come across this thread while still trying to decide if they wanted to risk a CT on their own bike. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify both my experience and the basis for my opinions on this subject.

Goose

 

By the way, I do agree with you that if I had a wobble, I would definately by concerned and would be tracking that down. I don't have one, but then again I drive the speed limit (although when I have been passing vehicles and have gone above the speed limit, I haven't noticed anything). I think the poster needs to adjust his tire pressures until he gets it where he is comfortable.

[wizard]

Wow, You must be the biker I've always wanted to be. Sometimes it's best to try to get over ones self.

[1joeranger]

tsigwing, love your bike!! Mine has a Kuhmo tire on the back. I'm not as an experienced rider as some but I did wear out a Avon Venom before switching to the dark side. The Kuhmo works for me!

[tsigwing]

tsigwing, love your bike!! Mine has a Kuhmo tire on the back. I'm not as an experienced rider as some but I did wear out a Avon Venom before switching to the dark side. The Kuhmo works for me!

 

Thanks. I'm certainly not as experienced as some, but won't go back to a MT on the rear unless some unforeseen circumstances dictate it.

[First_N_Last]

Well;

 

For me... my Kumho experiment is a failure. The High Speed wobble is real for me & when you crank on the throttle hard & accelerate while changing lanes at high speed, that wobble could easily kill a less experienced rider. A severe high speed wobble causes the steering to madly swing back & forth uncontrollably plus & minus about 4 inches at about 80 to 180 times a minute.

 

I am slow speed riding my Kumho until fall & then replacing it with an Avon Venom 150/90HB-15 or a 170/80HB-15. My Kumho will then be offered up free to the 1st person who picks it up.

 

Some people seem to have no problems, but there are so many who have had problems. Even if it was just 5% of the CTs, the risk is immensely dangerous. A heavy wobble is incredibly hard to control & keep from panicking as you tuck your body down to lower the center of gravity... ease off the gas & only use the rear brake until the wild wobble/swing stops. When a severe wobble/steering swing is experienced & you survive it, you then know the Kumho has to go.

 

Good luck to all with no problems. A non-wobbling Kumho gives great traction & wear.

 

However, even without the high speed wobble/steering swing, the tire does squirm under some cornering conditions while accelerating or encountering bumps on a hard curve.

 

To everyone I talk to now, I recommend against it. For good friends, I'll do everything I can to convince them to not even consider it.

 

Remember now, all of my judgment is based on my personal experience & the reported experiences of VentureRider members. I've been riding cycles since 1965.

 

JohnB

Edited June 23, 2010 by First_N_Last

[screamstone]

The OP stated that he thought his new CT handled just dandy, and then he proceeded to dismiss an extremely dangerous high sped wobble and favorably compare the handling he liked to what I personally DO KNOW is probably the worst possible handling he could ever experience with the RSV on a motorcycle tire.

 

Actually, It's NOT an "extremely dangerous high speed wobble". It's this strange oscillation- not at all quick and scary LIKE IT USED TO BE WITH THE MC TIRES on. It feels like a truck is going by me, and the more I think about it, the more I believe that it has to do with changing from a shorty windscreen to a XXL f4 windshied. Other threads mention this as well.

 

I had a WORSE high speed wobble with the MC tire, but the head bearings were REALLY loose, and I tightened them up, but don't know how to tell if now the bearings are messed up from having such a loose steering head for so long. I'll wait for a maintenance day to have an experienced person look at it.

 

I do the ride like a pro exercises in the parking lot quite often. I can turn the bike better than I think most can (my friends don't even want to try the exercises, even after watching the video.)

 

I appreciate your input, goose, and I take it in the most generous way. Thanks for the input. I don't have much to compare to. Many people don't let others ride their bike (and I completely understand that) so it's not like I can compare this much to anything else other than what I had. And I think it handles heaver than my Shadow ACE and Sportster did. But it's got a fairing and about 3-5 hundred pounds extra on it. I expect it to handle differently.

 

It's an experiment for me. I'm not SOLD on the idea. And If I can ride another set of tires and see that the bike can handle amazingly better with a tire change, I'll do it.

 

 

Right now, as I said before, I just don't see what all the fuss is about. A lot of custom bikes around here also have car tires. I don't think it's a huge deal. I think the bike handles fine. If I ever experience anything I don't like that I can attribute to the tires, I'll switch them FAST.

 

For now, They're staying on a while....

[BuddyRich]

I did try the CT. The wobble can be compared to the buffeting you get behind a tractor trailer. But there were a couple of times in a turn that the wobble popped its ugly head out at me. The bike had basically become unpredictable and that's not something I wanted so back to a MT for me. Its under certain conditions ,speed,lean angle,and other factors that the instability of a CT on a bike shows up. Get yourself some slow s curves or 90s and some fast s curves and 90s (45mph or higher)on that CT and you may see what I mean.

[gunboat]

buddy sorry to read that the c/t didn't work for you, but the most important thing is your safety & peace of mind. for some of us the c/t works just fine others it doesn't. i have had the wobble with both tires, motorcycle & car. but i now know how to avoid it. i now have over 12,000 miles on my 2'nd c/t and it works for me. 1'st c/t i got over 41,000 miles out of it. thanks for posting.

reguards

don c.

[First_N_Last]

buddy sorry to read that the c/t didn't work for you, but the most important thing is your safety & peace of mind. for some of us the c/t works just fine others it doesn't. i have had the wobble with both tires, motorcycle & car. but i now know how to avoid it. i now have over 12,000 miles on my 2'nd c/t and it works for me. 1'st c/t i got over 41,000 miles out of it. thanks for posting.

reguards

don c.

 

What air pressure are you riding with in your CT?

If I pump mine up to 50psi, the bike wobble is almost completely removed. running at 50psi is something I am unsure of.

 

JohnB

[gunboat]

john i did have about 38 psi in before don's md. but bumped it up to 44 psi due to towing a trailer and having my daughter sarah with me. that was over 3,000 miles round trip, but will go and check it again. ( haven't checked the pressure in 2 weeks ).

don c.

[Hummingbird]

From what I'm reading, there are some that wouldn't put a CT on their bike for love nor money. That's why we live in America, we have a choice.

 

Then there are those that did put one on and ride their bike like they were on a closed race course, again, their choice of riding style. Doesn't make them a bad person, just an individual.

 

And, there are those that have a CT and are comfortable with the handling and everything else related to their bike.

 

This forum makes it possible for us all to voice an opinion without ( hopefully ) upsetting any particular person because believe it or not, every post has an important message for SOMEONE here.

[Guest Swifty]

This forum makes it possible for us all to voice an opinion without ( hopefully ) upsetting any particular person because believe it or not, every post has an important message for SOMEONE here.

awwh, why even go there?...we all know that NO one gets upset on this site about what ANYONE else says or believes!

I am loving this Goose guy though and how he is able to rationally debate an issue. I'm scheming how I can get him into a political/religious/health care/gun debate in here!

[Hummingbird]

awwh, why even go there?...we all know that NO one gets upset on this site about what ANYONE else says or believes!

I am loving this Goose guy though and how he is able to rationally debate an issue. I'm scheming how I can get him into a political/religious/health care/gun debate in here!

 

Heck - I'll go with you

 

 

I deliberately stay out of politics, I don't have enough money to keep up ( maybe I can get a grant ? )

 

Health Care ? I'm 67, I do believe that Congress and the Senate should have the SAME health care we have.

 

Guns ? I believe in gun Control !! My definition of gun control is HITTING what you aim at !!

[BigBoyinMS]

Well, the Supreme Court has ruled against the gun grabbers today. Maybe we can get them to rule the same way against Goose and the other tire grabbers! Can't we all just get along?

 

 

As a wise man once said, "There ya go again!" Goose, I got all the respect in the world for you and I know you have alllll kinds of experience, but you need to give up your anti-CT crusade! Bikers have been riding on car tires for decades and decades and we will continue to do so. If you want to give info to those asking questions about motorcycle tires, then that's great. But when you expound on all of your years and years and miles and miles of experience (all on m/c tires) and then say that based on that experience (all on m/c tires), in your opinion, CT's are BAAAADDDD... well, in that case it's just an irrational dislike for something that you admittedly know nothing about.

 

The majority of us have no problems with handling, wobbles or anything else so doesn't it make sense that there is a problem with the particular tire or with the particular bike it's installed on? It seems that we only agree on one thing on this issue... if a bike has the wobble then it needs to be fixed.

 

And I'll always take lower cost, longer tread life, better handling, better traction and higher load limit. And I'll say it every time... I consider it a safety item on my bike because of those features.

 

And that's my experienced opinion...

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Just to throw a wrench in the works:

 

For years the early BossHoss V8 bikes (2 wheels) came from the factory with an off-the-shelf cartire on the rear. Back then, I dont think anyone made a motorcycle tire big enough to accommodate the heavy BossHoss Bikes*. I did take one for a test ride in 1997.

 

If memory serves, it was one of the Corvette style tires with a low profile, and a wide stance. Back then the BossHoss was not known for its cornering prowess, but they were impressive on the highway at any sane speed under 120 mph or so. ( not admitting anything here!)

 

I believe a few years later that BossHoss found a manufacturer to make a specific motorcycle tire (230/60) for the bikes, but mainly because of handling issues, not because of lack of safety, although my guess here is that the new tires required a change in the rim style.

 

Now...this whole forum is about opinions and/or facts, and sometimes the lines seem to get blurred. When someone chooses to praise car tires on a bike, someone else is just as much in the right to disimiss them as unsuitable.

 

I like the give and take here. I dont know of anyone here who has had an accident BECAUSE of running car tires, and I'm still undecided on the issue.

 

Just as I like to express my negative opinions on pulling vary large heavy trailers with a bike, (which I believe is a safety issue, for them and for others around them), some members choose to do it anyway. Aint America great?

 

I'd like to ride an RSV with a cartire sometime just to see how well it handles the curves. Maybe someday I'll even mount one on my bike. Around here there are hundreds of miles of straight roads for every 10 miles of curvy roads. Might be a regional advantage to one or the other. Till then, I'll just keep squaring off the Dunlops!

 

 

*Update: I should have said that back then, the weight and speed of the BossHoss meant that a high speed capable Corvette-type tire was what they had to put on the heavy and fast BossHoss.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2010 by tx2sturgis

[crockettrider]

Just to throw a wrench in the works:

 

 

 

I'd like to ride an RSV with a cartire sometime just to see how well it handles the curves. Maybe someday I'll even mount one on my bike. Around here there are hundreds of miles of straight roads for every 10 miles of curvy roads. Might be a regional advantage to one or the other. Till then, I'll just keep squaring off the Dunlops!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I went with the Kumho and I liked it well enough but had a wobble at 20 mph or so. It was irritating to say the least. I put over 2500 miles on it and was never real happy...though it handled well at higher speeds.

I ended up with a broken belt that made removal necessary. I put a motorcycle tire on and it was like getting my old bike back....no wobble, no concerns just a fun bike again without the feeling of something not quite right.

 

I keep my brothers bike in my garage....also a RSV. I ride his with his Kumho and it rides every bit as good as my bike with the M.T.

 

It just gets so darned confusing.

[Bummer]

... better handling, ...

 

This is where you lose all credibility. Perhaps you should just stop at cheap.

[V7Goose]

This is where you lose all credibility. Perhaps you should just stop at cheap.

I didn't want to say it myself and keep this pissing contest going, but I just gotta support someone else who sees it!

Goose