Taking a long time to start my RSTD

[phertwo]

Hi Everyone!

 

I have a question regarding starting the RSTD. I previously had a V-Star 1100 and my normal cold start would be full-choke and depressing the start button for less than a second to one second. It would seem to catch rather quickly and fire up.

 

However with my RSTD, normal cold start is full-choke and depressing the start button for 4-5 seconds. For the first 2~3 seconds or so I just hear the starter, and from 3~6 seconds I hear the engine quitely starting to catch on. For another second or two after releasing the start button the engine slowly spins (idle speed) until it suddenly fires up to a good full-choke rpm speed.

 

Moreover, if I leave the bike for a half hour after an hour long ride, which I would consider the bike to be warm, I still have to go through the same routine. It will never just fire right up quickly.

 

I do live in Canada, but the average temperature for the past while has been 60~70F.

 

Does this sound like a problem/needs maintenance issue or is this Normal? I feel like i'm going to wear the starter out by holding it for that long.

 

Background info:

 

I ride my RSTD as much as I can (at least 4 days a week, minimum 2 hours per day)

Replaced spark plugs

Replaced fuel filter

Ran a can of Seafoam

Cleaned air filters

Changed oil and oil filter

Synchronized carbs

Changed coolant

 

Thanks!!

[Dave77459]

I don't know what the solution to this is, but it isn't normal from my experience. On really cold days (40s and below), I might have to pull out the choke and crank it for a couple seconds. When it is warm, it is a half second pop and the bike starts up. At 4 or 5 seconds I would get off and sniff for gas.

 

How does it idle? Slow do you think? Do you have plenty of power when you roll it on? I'm wondering about a weak fuel pump.

 

Like I said, this is out of my experience and knowledge. Unfortunately, many of the people who have bright ideas are heading to the maintenance day in Ohio, and may not be around much for a few days. If you don't get suggestions, wait until Tuesday or so, then bump it to get some attention.

 

Dave

[tsigwing]

Hi Everyone!

 

I have a question regarding starting the RSTD. I previously had a V-Star 1100 and my normal cold start would be full-choke and depressing the start button for less than a second to one second. It would seem to catch rather quickly and fire up.

 

However with my RSTD, normal cold start is full-choke and depressing the start button for 4-5 seconds. For the first 2~3 seconds or so I just hear the starter, and from 3~6 seconds I hear the engine quitely starting to catch on. For another second or two after releasing the start button the engine slowly spins (idle speed) until it suddenly fires up to a good full-choke rpm speed.

 

Moreover, if I leave the bike for a half hour after an hour long ride, which I would consider the bike to be warm, I still have to go through the same routine. It will never just fire right up quickly.

 

I do live in Canada, but the average temperature for the past while has been 60~70F.

 

Does this sound like a problem/needs maintenance issue or is this Normal? I feel like i'm going to wear the starter out by holding it for that long.

 

Background info:

 

I ride my RSTD as much as I can (at least 4 days a week, minimum 2 hours per day)

Replaced spark plugs

Replaced fuel filter

Ran a can of Seafoam

Cleaned air filters

Changed oil and oil filter

Synchronized carbs

Changed coolant

 

Thanks!!

 

when you turn your key on do you hear the fuel pump fire up?

[phertwo]

Thanks Dave,

 

Yes, I didn't think about the whole maintenance day and the board going quiet for a few days.

 

The fuel pump is one item that I am suspect of. The bike has good enough roll on speed, but its hard for me to compare really since I just for this bike two months ago. The gentleman I bought it from did not seem to have taken the best of care of the scoot, but so it goes.. I'd say that the low rpm torque is not very good, but it seems to find its stride past 3500 to 4000rpm. Characteristic of the bike or a sign of a carb/fuel pump problem, I don't know.

 

I would say that once the bike is warmed up, my idle speed is a little bit faster than the idle speed after start up. It seems to struggle a bit to keep idle after start up, and its 70F outside.

 

Again, this doesn't really affect my ride, but it gives me a less than excited feeling to have a bike that has a lazy start-up.

 

I might just do the fuel pump replacement since it seems pretty straight forward and inexpensive. At least I would feel better about not having to encounter a failed pump situation. And it would be one more thing on my list to check off.

[tsigwing]

Thanks Dave,

 

Yes, I didn't think about the whole maintenance day and the board going quiet for a few days.

 

The fuel pump is one item that I am suspect of. The bike has good enough roll on speed, but its hard for me to compare really since I just for this bike two months ago. The gentleman I bought it from did not seem to have taken the best of care of the scoot, but so it goes.. I'd say that the low rpm torque is not very good, but it seems to find its stride past 3500 to 4000rpm. Characteristic of the bike or a sign of a carb/fuel pump problem, I don't know.

 

I would say that once the bike is warmed up, my idle speed is a little bit faster than the idle speed after start up. It seems to struggle a bit to keep idle after start up, and its 70F outside.

 

Again, this doesn't really affect my ride, but it gives me a less than excited feeling to have a bike that has a lazy start-up.

 

I might just do the fuel pump replacement since it seems pretty straight forward and inexpensive. At least I would feel better about not having to encounter a failed pump situation. And it would be one more thing on my list to check off.

 

Pull the fuel line from the petcock and point it in a gas can. Turn the key to the on position and watch to see how much fuel comes out.

[phertwo]

When I turn the key I hear a few 'tick' sounds. I think that's coming from the carbs. Its either a several quick ticks or just 2~3 ticks that I hear.

[gibvel]

When I turn the key I hear a few 'tick' sounds. I think that's coming from the carbs. Its either a several quick ticks or just 2~3 ticks that I hear.

 

No, the ticking sound is coming from the fuel pump. The 2 or 3 ticks mean that the bowls are probably still full. If you ride every day that would be normal. If you let it sit, and the fuel in the bowls evaporates then it will pump for a longer time.

[phertwo]

Well, I suppose its doing its job. Its definitely ticking.

[GeorgeS]

Clean the contacts of both plugs on the TCI Unit.

 

Open and Clean the contacts of the " Run-Stop" Switch. ( if high resistance here this can lower the voltage to the TCI unit.

 

Find the 5 wire cable runs from the " Pick Up Coiles " and goes to the TCI unit, about 1/2 way on this cable there is a pull apart plug. ( 5 pin ). Find it, open it, and Clean the contacts, make sure the male and female pins are makeing good contact.

 

Find your Rectifyer/Regulator unit--- Remove the Plug, Inspect for Burnt Pins, and loose connections. Clean the Pins, Make sure there is NO Moisture in the Plug.

 

---- Have you found the " Drain Valves " on the Carbs ??? If Not, find the drain screw on each Carb, and completly drain the bowls. One at a time, turn key to ON position and let the Fuel pump run fuel thru each carb, to flush out the bowl.

------- Do them one at a time, make sure all four carbs flush fuel at the same rate.

 

 

Find your mail fuse block, make sure good contact on the " Ignition Fuse " holder.

 

---- You might have a High Resistance, contact across the Main Ignition Switch!! The Ignition Switches on these bikes are KNOWN PROBLEM SPOTS-- Lots of folks have had to REPLACE the Ignition Switch. High resistance across the Main contacts, will " LOWER THE VOLTAGE TO THE TCI UNIT ",

 

---- You might have Moisture in your TCI Unit, Remove it, and put in OVEN at about 110 deg. F, for an hour or so, to dry out any moisture, that might be in the unit.

 

------------------------------

 

All the above items, are shots in the dark so to speak-- But, worth checking

[phertwo]

Wow George.

 

You've just given me a lot of homework.

 

Thanks very much everyone! I will get to work and set if I can solve this issue.

 

Thanks again.

[hig4s]

Also,, I have found on my last three bikes, all with carburetors, that if the bike sets for any length of time the carbs get clogged up and it becomes much harder to start. They also don't preform as well and don't get optimum gas mileage until they clean out. If I were you I would, along with checking other things, use some Seafoam and go for a long ride. At least 150 miles.. See if it seems better after that.

[slick97spirit]

possible clogged fuel filter?

[Black Owl]

Lots of good recommendations/suggestions here. From my experience, extended cranking is most often the result of a fuel delivery problem. I would suspect a weak fuel pump.

[phertwo]

As listed before, I ran a can of Seafoam and replaced the fuel filter. Although it did make things a little smoother, the start-up is still the same.

 

I was thinking the same thing about a possible weak fuel pump. I will find a replacement and clean all the electrical contact points. When I have some more time I will fiddle with the carbs. I do have a colortune spark plug set, but have yet to use it to set the pms. I need to find a few evenings where I have some free time to do all this work.

[royalstarjac]

When I had my RSV a 4-5 second cold crank/choke without touching the throttle was about normal. On warm start up with no choke(enrichener really) and a slight twist of the throttle the bike would start right up.

 

That is the starting procedure listed in the manual.

[phertwo]

I was wondering if my start-up description was normal for this bike. I will check out my manual a little more closely when I get a chance. Although I hope that I can get it to start-up a little quicker and with more authority. I think it feels like it would rather not bother going for a ride, lazy..

 

I think I will make an audio recording of my bike on a typical cold start. Maybe you guys can tell me if its normal or not.

 

I also thought that someone would have blasted me already for ever wanting to turn the bike off in the first place!

[Dave77459]

As listed before, I ran a can of Seafoam and replaced the fuel filter. Although it did make things a little smoother, the start-up is still the same.

 

I was thinking the same thing about a possible weak fuel pump. I will find a replacement and clean all the electrical contact points. When I have some more time I will fiddle with the carbs. I do have a colortune spark plug set, but have yet to use it to set the pms. I need to find a few evenings where I have some free time to do all this work.

As a test or possible fix, you can get a "Mr. Gasket 42S" fuel pump for cheap at the auto parts store (I found mine at Advanced Auto). With a length of hose and a pair of inline splices, you can insert the fuel pump into the system. If that solves the problem, then you can either install the Mr. Gasket (as I did) or hold onto it as a spare.

 

If you go this route, make sure you get the older style Mr. Gasket where the output needs the nipple to be installed. The new Mr. Gasket has a fixed output nipple that prevents you from using some fittings necessary to install it in our bike.

 

Dave

[GeorgeS]

Also, "anything " that causes low voltage to the " TCI " can cause hard starting.

 

Possible, ageing battery, bad or damaged pin's at the R/R Unit, Resistance across the ignition switch, resistance across the Run-Stop Switch, corroded pins in any of the " Many " pull apart plugs of the wireing system.

 

Check your NO Load Voltage on your battery, make sure you have at least 12.2 volts, at full charge , Key Off !!

If your battery is over 3 years old, consider replaceing it. ( I recomend a DEKA, AGM type Dry Cell--- Talk to " CONDOR " about this, or, and Odyessy AGM type Dry Cell )

 

Have you CHARGED YOUR BATTERY LATLEY !! With a Charger, ( not just a trickle charger!!) Have you checked the fluid level in the battery???

If its a sealed battery, hold it up; to a BRIGHT LIGHT, and be sure the water level is ABOVE the plates.

If its a sealed unit, and water level is low, its toast !!

 

With Engine running, check your Charging system voltage at Pos Battery terminal, make sure its at least 13.2 to 13.4 Volts, at 2000 RPM.

 

 

ON 2nd gen bikes, several folks have found bad Pins at the Plug going into the R/R Unit. Not easy to fix.

 

LOW Voltage, to the TCI unit will cause Hard starting,

 

BE sure your Alternator is putting out correct charging Voltage !!!!! ( 13.8 or higher )

[Mike G in SC]

If you suspect the fuel pump (or filter) you can bypass directly from the tank to the carb input to do a gravity feed. I ran my RSTD that way for a few days while dealer ordered a pump. Yamaha pump is not cheap.

 

If you do this, go to the left side cover and pull the power from the pump,, else it will try to run,,, and spit out what gas it has.

Search for "gravity feed" on this forum if you need more detail.

 

On a similar problem, my dealer replaced the ignition and some other electronics in the starting system, also did some carb work. Somewhere in the long run, they fixed it.

 

If under warranty, ask them about it.

 

Mike G in SC

[Cowboy]

Need help as I am on a long trip and the bike is not wanting to get spark first thing in the morning!

History

Before leaving May 28th

New Air Filters

New Fuel Filter

New Spark Plugs

Can of Seafoam

 

Second day out had to ride in some of the heaviest rain I think I have ever rode in, Lasted 2 1/2 hours. Bike never missed a beat.

Next morning seemed a little slow to crank but nothing of concern.

 

Fourth day rode thru water on the road between 6 and 10 inches deep. Never missed a beat for the remainder of the day.

Next morning seemed a little slower to start.

 

Fifth day I changed the fuel pump thinking I might not be getting proper fuel pressure, since I had never changed it with 140,000 miles on it.

 

Battery Load Tested 12.3 Volts fully charged and no bad cells.

Voltage meter shows charging at 13.2 at idle and 13.7-13.9 while running down the road.

 

Drained the carb. bowls to make sure no water in fuel.

 

Stopped in Hamilton, MT Yamaha shop to discuss with mechanic. Since it only happened in the mornings he could not check anything but he gave me a spark plug and told me to check for spark first thing in the morning. I did the next morning and found that the two rear plugs wires were not getting any spark. Did not check the front due to easy of getting to. After finding no spark he told me it was probably the Stator even though it was charging, it also was part of the ignition signals. SO I replaced the Stator in Sandpoint, ID.

Problem not solved.

 

I have been getting someone to let put my jumper cables on their truck and I have to let the bike's starter turn over for 15 seconds or more several times and then all of sudden it starts.

I spent the last week in BC & AB along the Icefields Parkway.

Finally back in the states and left Glacier National Park this morning. I took the bike 12 different times of grinding on the starter before it finally fired.

Starting to get worried that it is going to just not start and / or damage the starter.

 

Wish the Yamaha dealer would have told me to change the Pickup Coil / Pick-Up Assy while I was changing the Stator!!

 

How do you try and test or diagnose while on the road away from home.

 

Once the bike cranks in the morning I have not had a problem starting for the rest of the day even if we go for a hike or long lunch. Starting too really worry that I will get stuck out in the middle of no where.

[Du-Rron]

 

Second day out had to ride in some of the heaviest rain ...

 

Fourth day rode thru water on the road between 6 and 10 inches deep...

 

The 10" of water along with a good rain soaking makes me suspect wiring that needs to be checked. Unplug from the rear coils all the way back and clean/dry/wd-40/then dry the wiring. Check battery wiring and grounds. Check the starter solenoid/main fuse and make sure they are clean and dry.

 

[Patch]

Need help as I am on a long trip and the bike is not wanting to get spark first thing in the morning!

History

Before leaving May 28th

New Air Filters

New Fuel Filter

New Spark Plugs

Can of Seafoam

 

Second day out had to ride in some of the heaviest rain I think I have ever rode in, Lasted 2 1/2 hours. Bike never missed a beat.

Next morning seemed a little slow to crank but nothing of concern.

 

Fourth day rode thru water on the road between 6 and 10 inches deep. Never missed a beat for the remainder of the day.

Next morning seemed a little slower to start.

 

Fifth day I changed the fuel pump thinking I might not be getting proper fuel pressure, since I had never changed it with 140,000 miles on it.

 

Battery Load Tested 12.3 Volts fully charged and no bad cells.

Voltage meter shows charging at 13.2 at idle and 13.7-13.9 while running down the road.

 

Drained the carb. bowls to make sure no water in fuel.

 

Stopped in Hamilton, MT Yamaha shop to discuss with mechanic. Since it only happened in the mornings he could not check anything but he gave me a spark plug and told me to check for spark first thing in the morning. I did the next morning and found that the two rear plugs wires were not getting any spark. Did not check the front due to easy of getting to. After finding no spark he told me it was probably the Stator even though it was charging, it also was part of the ignition signals. SO I replaced the Stator in Sandpoint, ID.

Problem not solved.

 

I have been getting someone to let put my jumper cables on their truck and I have to let the bike's starter turn over for 15 seconds or more several times and then all of sudden it starts.

I spent the last week in BC & AB along the Icefields Parkway.

Finally back in the states and left Glacier National Park this morning. I took the bike 12 different times of grinding on the starter before it finally fired.

Starting to get worried that it is going to just not start and / or damage the starter.

 

Wish the Yamaha dealer would have told me to change the Pickup Coil / Pick-Up Assy while I was changing the Stator!!

 

How do you try and test or diagnose while on the road away from home.

 

Once the bike cranks in the morning I have not had a problem starting for the rest of the day even if we go for a hike or long lunch. Starting too really worry that I will get stuck out in the middle of no where.

 

ridiculous about the stator!

 

I'll post later, but likely others will chime in soon.

Patch

& I'll pm you my number in case you need walking thru.. Still in Canada?

[Cowboy]

The 10" of water along with a good rain soaking makes me suspect wiring that needs to be checked. Unplug from the rear coils all the way back and clean/dry/wd-40/then dry the wiring. Check battery wiring and grounds. Check the starter solenoid/main fuse and make sure they are clean and dry.

 

https://www.venturerider.org/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116812

 

Du-Rron,

I checked the main fuse box Left side behind the drivers leg under the cover

I checked the Second Fuse Box and the black box with two plugs that is on the right side behind the front lower

All plugs and boxes free of dust and dry as a bone sitting in the sun. Plugs had the dielectric gel on the outside edges of plug. Seemed to work like it is meant to keep out water or moisture. Male & Female sides looked clean and free of any type of corrosion.

 

I did not check the plug for the Rectifier but I will look at it.

How and where are the plugs for the Coils. I have seen the Coils but never really followed the wires to see where they plug connections are.

Do you know where the pick up coil plug is located. I would like to find and check it for water and corrosion.

Stator wires are soldered with no plug as I did not trust the plug.

 

Thank You for the response and wish me luck.

Brian Shoemaker

[Patch]

I too believe it is rain related, but it would be wrong to not suggest check the pickup coil resistance. The pickup coil is located where the stator is, the sleeved 2 wire harness coming thru the casing and rubber grommet to a small connector, the colors will show white red and blue black. This 2 wire harness runs to the Igniter box. Disconnect the plug closest to the stator housing and measure the ohms 190 - 230 should be standard, do it both when cold or first thing, then when at operating temp; just to rule it out! You can view it here at the bottom and center of this sheet.

https://www.venturerider.org/wiring/99-09%20Yamaha%20Royal%20Star%20Venture%20Wiring%20Diagram%20Rev%20B.pdf

 

What I really think this is, is that water got in the Igniter? So at night when it cools it condenses forms a general malfunction!?

You can try to warm it with a hair dryer for a couple of minutes before attempting your morning start, it should be warm to touch.

If this proves to be the case then when your in a safe place you can open it and clean it then reseal it.

 

As far as I know you only have the one pickup coil so, not knowing if the front plugs are firing confuses the issue some what but not enough to change my mind on the Igniter box.

If the 2 front or any 2 were firing correctly then it would start but stumble till the rear woke up!

 

Fun stuff

Patch

Edited June 21, 2019 by Patch

[Du-Rron]

 

The ignitor box full of water is a really good possibility.