Stuck float.. again... and again....

[CdnDave77]

Not even sure where to start on this one...

 

For some background, I ran the bike completely out of gas about 3 weeks ago... not far from home, so I was moving again in minutes. Anyways, since then I have been plagued with a sticking float or floats.

 

We went to Marcarl's M&E a couple of weeks ago, and part-way thru the afternoon ride, I could smell gas (gasoline, that is...) and the engine was bogging. When the group stopped at a Tim Horton's for a break, there was certainly fuel coming through the overflow hoses to just in front of the rear wheel. I limped it home, saw that Carbs #1 and #4 were pouring fuel out of the overflows after I pulled the airbox off. I shut the fuel off at the tank and let the carbs empty themselves as I did a light drum solo on each carb body. I turned the fuel back on, hit the key, and after a few clicks, the fuel pump shut off with nothing out of the overflows. Good... problem solved.

 

The next morning, I rode about 40-45 miles to Waterloo to pick up some friends on their bike, and escort them back to our place. My machine ran great. However, on the return trip to take them home, at least one float stuck again... same old issue : gas out the overflow tubes, and engine flooding.

 

Got home. Emptied the carb bowls again, then let the pump suck straight Seafoam into the bowls. I let it sit overnight. Checked the next morning, and when I hit the key.. one click from the fuel pump.. no more. Good. That fixed it.

 

Rode 2 days later... guess what ? Stuck float. Gas. Overflow. Expletives from me, disapproving eyerolls from wife.

 

Redo Seafoam treatment. Let it sit 2 days. Fuel pump shuts off as it should. No fuel dripping anywhere. But, I ride for an hour. Smell gas. Engine bogging. Four letter words in abundance.

 

Call Carl and reserve a space in his gorgeous shop last Monday. Bring my spare rack of carbs with me, figuring I can replace a bad float or floats, valves, etc. Remove carbs, finally get backs off of bowls - they are whistle clean inside. Valves certainly do not look damaged. Check the bouyancy of the floats.. all is well. Spray the seats of the valves liberally with carb cleaner, reassemble. All works as it should... the bowls fill, then the fuel pump shuts off. No overflowing fuel. Do little happy dance. Change plugs as the old ones have seen a lot of Seafoam and excess fuel. Seems to be running the way it should.

 

Go for a ride tonight - and I don't even have to tell you to guess... I smell gas as I slow to a stop about 30 miles into my ride. Arrrrgh...

 

One of Carl's (1 Gen's answer to Yoda) thoughts on Monday was that it could be the fuel supply line from the pump gradually disintegrating.. allowing little pieces of former hose to clog the float valves. It certainly could be... but why always carbs #1 and #4 ? The are diagonally opposite each other.

 

I should be able to replace the fuel line tomorrow.. that is an easy thing to try and not expensive. However, before I run completely out of curse words, anyone else have any other thoughts if this repeats itself again ?

[Snaggletooth]

Kind of had the same battle 3 years ago when I first got my bike. Blowing gas through the overflows at weird intervals and at the worst of times. Found two floats were actually saturated with gas. When I had a chance to weigh them on a digital scale I could see the difference. Not much, but it did affect to float level a lot.

 

I had picked up a spare rack to and ended up giving the spare floats a coating of airplane dope to reseal them. That did the trick.......but it did add a bit of weight to the floats so the bowl fuel level had to be reset. Probably my fault......I did two coats. It didn't leave much room for adustment. I had trouble getting the fuel level up to specs so I did end up replacing all four floats with new. That did finally solve the problem.

 

I found that the floats from the '86 V-Max were the exact same. I think it was about $125.00 including shipping. Looking back at the headaches I had with the carbs at that time and now 3 years with no problems.......money well spent.

 

Mike

Edited June 11, 2010 by Snaggletooth

[BradT]

. Found two floats were actually saturated with gas.

 

I too was going to mention that the floats could be bad, or the little plunger with seal.

 

Acts just like a stuck float. Good luck

 

Brad

[bobcat]

That happened to me once on my 86VR. I posed the problem on this forum and it was suggested to open the bowl drain on the offending carb and to turn on the ignition switch to let the fuel pump flush out any particles that might be in the bowl...shut off the ignition switch then cap the drain..

 

It worked..

[jasonm.]

I do not know what carb clean you used on the needles(valves). Some carbs cleaners will damage the float needle. Though Not sea foam. Sea Foam in my opinion is just heavier weight WD40. Berryman's is very strong and should be used sparingly. You MUST use a good magnifying glass to inspect the needle. I had a bad one last week,and did not see it till I used such a glass. Now my floats are set perfect. But I still have other issues. FYI, the fuel pump has a 5 second limit. It will not pump more than 5 seconds constantly. Especially w/engine not running. Must turn ignition off then back on the make sure bowls are full.

[CdnDave77]

I used the standard Canadian Tire Carb Cleaner... pretty good stuff, won't eat anything it isn't supposed to.

 

I check the valves under a magnifying glass & bright light, even asked Carl to double check. There was no deformation or damage anywhere on the tips/points.

 

And my fuel pump has no such limit... if the floats are working as they should (as they have for the prior 2 years that I have owned it), when you turn the key on, it will click rapidly a couple of times then slow down and stop. Cycling the key on and off will produce no further clicks (ie: the bowls are full). When the float (or floats) are stuck, the pump will continue to push fuel, with a click about every 3 to 4 seconds ad-infinitum.. I suppose until the tank is empty and the bike is in the middle of a lake of gasoline.

[jasonm.]

If the pressure sensor does not see it's pressure limit. It will stop in 5 seconds. All it takes is to see it's limit once in 5 seconds. Then the check cycle starts again. This does not mean in goes in 5 second steps. Just this is a safety to prevent your gas coming out constantly and cauusing a fire. So I suspect yours overflowing is not as constant as you think. This is a safety Yamaha built into the pump. It's not so clearly stated in the Yamaha manual.

Edited June 11, 2010 by jasonm.

[Snaggletooth]

Jason,

 

Here are the pics I was talking about. You can see the discoloration on the float I found to be absorbing gas. It is very soft in that area. I think you can see the marks from my fingernail in the pic. The other float worked fine and never sank on me. It is fairly firm with no weak spots.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Snaggletooth

[jasonm.]

Even my spares don't show any discoloration. Pic- That looks like water damage. So this makes me feel better about my floats. Thanks.>>>>>>>>>BUT the gasahol we run today will make this happen more often ... we're all screwed.

Edited June 12, 2010 by jasonm.

[CdnDave77]

I appreciate the input, Jason... but I can say without a doubt that my fuel pump does not (or did not) shut off in 5 seconds. Maybe we're not talking with the same jargon, but the fuel pump would continue to cycle (click) every 2-4 seconds with the engine not running, and there would be fuel running out of the overflow hoses. I watched it several times.

 

Anyways... today, I replaced the fuel line with a brand new one. The inside of the hose at either end certainly looked sketchy, so the regular dosings of Seafoam may have hastened the breakdown and/or flushed some small chunks of former hose into my float needles.

 

I drained the carbs, replaced the fuel line, shot a blast of carb cleaner down each inlet pipe, tapped each carb body near the float valves for good measure, re-opened the fuel valve at the tank, crossed my fingers, and turned the key...

 

The carbs filled.. then the pump went silent. I checked each carb's overlow outlet.. all was well and good. Ok, float's seem to be doing their job again.

 

I fired it up and let it run for 5 min or so.. everything still seemed good. So I put the airbox back on. No time for a good test ride as I had family commitments, and the weekend is looking wet.

 

Hopefully this stops this issue.. but I have also been through this several times over the last couple of weeks.

 

FYI : the floats I pulled were uniform colour.. no damage or soft areas. They floated with the same amount of bouyancy as the ones out of my spare carb rack that have been dry for at least 2 years.