Headlight Modulators, are they safe?

[BOO]

I too have been thinking a lot about the accident since it happen and thinking about what could have happen.

Of course no matter what the person should not have pulled out until they were 100 per cent sure the bike was turning but we are talking about an inexperienced driver and 16 years old. I could kind of see where she might have thought it was a turn signal, I said kind of.

I have almost pulled out in front of bikes myself but luckily I saw them at the last moment and got stopped. I'm just trying to say it could happen to anyone, we are not all perfect unfortunately.

I don't like the flashing head lights and I have actually been stopped by a county LEO and told to turn my lights down to dim when in Illinois they teach at the motorcycle classes that it is safer with the light on bright.

We had an accident here a few years ago where a bike pulled out in front of another bike and the bike was knocked under a semi tractor....This was a friend of mines son.

It's just a terrible tragedy no matter how you look at it.

Jerry

[Eck]

 

I tend to agree with Charlie.... I fail to understand how anyone with half a brain could mistake a large white modulating headlight for a much smaller yellow or red turn signal.

 

 

Please forgive me here, but this is how I feel about a head light modulator..

I have paused from pulling out of a side road as a vehicle approached and MANY times, the driver would flash his "head lights" only trying to signal me that it is OK to pull out because he is onto the same road I am pulling out of..

In Garys case, the 16 yr old MAY......Just MAY..have thought that is exactly what Gary was doing ..."signalling" her..... that it was OK for her to pull out...

I have never...and will never install a head light modulator for this reason.

I have never felt it was the right thing to do by installing a head light modulator...

I know many people have installed them and use then religiously...

that is thier right....

but dont ever think I will install one for I feel they are very unsafe and always will be unsafe....

 

[Skid]

I know the young girl made a bad decision, but I personally don't like the modulator. When someone flashes their lights at you, it usually means they are giving you the right of way to GO. As an officer, I have saw a lot of idiots do stupid things when they see flashing lights. To an inexperienced driver, this could mean trouble. Whether they pull off the road in front of you and cause an accident or just kick up rocks that may hit you, either way I'm uncomfortable with them. My question would be to the members using the modulators, how many times have someone pulled over and let you by when you come up behind them? I saw many drivers panic and make a sudden stop to pull over out of my way. I wonder if they think you're a fireman?

[Thom]

i agree with Charlie , i run the strobes like randya ,i have tested with them on and off i have a lot less cages pull out in front of me and the cages give me a lot more room .

[plainmd]

The headlight modulator and brakelight flasher were the first accesories I installed on my bike.....I feel that they have saved my bacon many times over.......I will not own a bike without one.......

[1BigDog]

Please forgive me here, but this is how I feel about a head light modulator..

 

I have paused from pulling out of a side road as a vehicle approached and MANY times, the driver would flash his "head lights" only trying to signal me that it is OK to pull out because he is onto the same road I am pulling out of..

 

In Garys case, the 16 yr old MAY......Just MAY..have thought that is exactly what Gary was doing ..."signalling" her..... that it was OK for her to pull out...

 

 

Eck echoes my sentiments. I had thought about the modulating headlight thing earlier but I didnt have time to post. Im glad Don brought it up. As a professional truck driver, I have always flashed my headlights as a way to either let someone in, or to indicate that I am attempting to pass. Like Eck said, it is very possible that the flashing light was mistaken for a go ahead signal. Not saying thats what it was, but a 16 year old sure does not have the mental capacity, nor the experience behind the wheel to differentiate between a modulating head light and someone flashing their lights, nor do they have the common sense at that age to realize that something is about to happen. I believe they just dont fully comprehend their surroundings. 16 is way too young to be driving alone.

[hig4s]

A modulator does not work at night......they are all manufactured with a sensor on them that prevents them from night time function......in fact some will go of in tunnel or under a shade tree...the better ones have a delay to take this into account.......it is also illegal to run one at night........so night use should never be an issue. Kit

 

If you are refering to my friend, he didn't use it at night, and the Velcro strap simulated night to turn them off in the daytime.

 

If you are refering to my night blindness, that can manifest itself as a problem with amount of light processed or with adjusting quickly to different light levels. I have both issues so the brights in my rearview mirror anytime (but especially at night) bothers me although I can deal with it, but the modulating light during the day just drives me crazy.

[BEER30]

So we have made many claims to what flashing lights might mean to different individuals . From interpretations of ," go ahead , pull out " , "I'm turning" , "emergency vehicles", "I can't tell whether is a turn signal or what ?" . The fact is , if you are not sure , remain still or be much more cautious ! You may pass one cage thinking one meaning and the next another .You yourself cannot second guess what the other person is going to do .

Us MC riders not only have to drive for ourselves , but also for the other drivers among us . I can contest for 2 incidents for myself where I was side by side of a cager and they most definitely saw me face to face , but still came into my lane and forced be to take evasive measures , lights or no lights played a roll in these occurrences . So saying , no matter what you think , you cannot control the minds of others . We can only do our part by being seen or just sit on the porch like a big dog .

 

Oh , one more interpretation to add ,"Cop up ahead ! " So why are they not slowing down ?

 

BEER30

[Redneck]

I have seen quit a few bikes with them and they do get your attention and thats what they are intended to do. I can see where they could be mistaken for an emergency vehicle or even a turn signal if you were not paying much attention in the first place. I don't have one and don't intend to get one. I have people pull out in front of me all the time weather I'm on the bike in a pickup or a big truck. They will make eye contact with me then pull out it is mostly from lack of respect for other people. A lot of people don't think of anybody but themselves and don't care if you have to slam on your brake as long as they get in front of you so they can get where they are going asap. Accidents happen every day from bad judgment lack of experience and senseless detractions. I have no doubt that Gary and Leslie's accident was caused by an inexperienced driver who did not devote all her attention to what she was doing.

[Moped]

Nothing to do with accident, but have a friend that had modulator and now has rod in leg from accident. Was at 4way stop and older gentleman pulled out as he did, hit at low speed but severe leg break. Man said biker flashed headlights which was telling me to go. I always think that could happen if your just going down the road and someone pulled out on you. This keeps me from ever having one. Just curious, I have not seen a modulator for almost 3 years since I was in Tenn. when two Goldwings in a group at Honda Hoot had one.

[BEER30]

Nothing to do with accident, but have a friend that had modulator and now has rod in leg from accident. Was at 4way stop and older gentleman pulled out as he did, hit at low speed but severe leg break. Man said biker flashed headlights which was telling me to go. I always think that could happen if your just going down the road and someone pulled out on you. This keeps me from ever having one. Just curious, I have not seen a modulator for almost 3 years since I was in Tenn. when two Goldwings in a group at Honda Hoot had one.

 

Ever wondered if people think you are wearing out your finger , working the high/low beam switch , flashing the lights ? More people exercise their fingers dialing them darn cellphones while driving . Do people think anymore or use common sense ?

 

BEER30

[Marcarl]

Once we had bias ply tires and drove at a break neck speed of 60 mph, now we have radials and think nothing of 80 mph. Funny thing is, metal bends quicker at 80 than at 60.

Once we had incandescent lights that were hot and keep the snow off of the lenses, now we have halogen or even cooler running LEDs and have a snow build up problem.

Once we had headlights at night only but visibility in the daytime was bad so now we have lights all day long. Do we stand out anymore? Not really so we go to a strobe and really stand out.

In my opinion Freebird has a point and during our coffee stop on a ride this afternoon after I explained the accident, my fellow rider, Peter, and I looked at each other with the same Revelation look: do you think that in the flash of a moment that she took to evaluate the left oncoming traffic, that she may have mistaken the modulating light for a signal? Gary would not of had his signal on or he would have been ready to turn and so would not have been in the accident, so my assumption would be that the only thing flashing would be the headlight. Her mistake for sure, but one commonly and easily made. Should we ban modulators? I think not. We'll still use radials and LEDs for they are much safer, although they present new problems. I don't think Freebird was suggesting that we don't use modulators, but just want to point the hazards that may accompany them.

That's a lot of typing, I hope I said it write.

[Skid]

. Do people think anymore or use common sense ?[/size]

 

BEER30

 

No they don't Gene, and after 18 years on the road using flashing lights, I've saw many of them panic..... The best way is to ride DEFENSIVELY!

[Guest KitCarson]

A headlight modulator is not even similar to a car or truck flashing its lights telling you to do something. This is a high intensity(go to a 115 watt bulb) strobe light that without any doubt is highly visible. Yes you could have ten of them.....a siren and three yellow lights and make eye contact with certain drivers and they will still pull out in front of you. Some drivers will intentionally try to push a biker off the road. There are a hundred and one variables.....

Why does everyone have to go to one extreme or the other. That is not the intent of this safety issue. The intent is middle ground.....do what you can to be seen....increase your chances of being seen.....no guarantee that you will be..........what about people who run into the back of a big yellow school bus..........they do that also.

The modulator helps a biker to be seen......period.....end of story. I do not mean to be shall we say too forceful.....or disrespectful....but I really do not care if some people do not like them....good.....at least they will see me. This is the whole point to be seen, if it annoys someone fine.....they saw me. There are extremes to everything.......one to the other...just like the helmet discussion we had a week ago......no a helmet will not help you in all accidents......but will in some.......a modulator will not prevent each and all accidents........but will prevent some........just maybe that one some time would be for you. Respectfully Kit

 

Whoops...forgot.......I do tend to figure people know what I am thinking.......the use of a modulator does and will have a new set of situations to look out for.....but by using common sense and all your other knowledge, and putting it all together, those instances at a stop where someone might mistake this for a signal(really really do not agree with that at all) then it is up to us as riders to become familiar with a new set of maybes.......put them in our pocket...combine them with all we already know ..accept the challenge and be safer. Kit

[rangerider]

I looked at modualtors, and have met several on the road. Although they stood out really well, the only way I knew what they were is because of sites like this. I can very well see how someone gets confused and doesn't know what to do.

 

While doing some research for my midnite venture I found what they call a rainbow strobe, it is just a colored prism around your headlight bulb. It gives some color to your light, red, blue, and yellow if I remember corectly.

 

Although it may not be noticed as much as a modulator, it still gets you noticed.

 

Drive fast, take NO chances!!!!

[RSV Angel]

A cuppla my buddies I ride with a lot have the modulators. They bothswear by em,- I have flashing brake lights that are very bright led's but I personally am not real sure about the headlight modulator. As Jeff said this is one way that truckers signel others that it's clear or to pull out or pull over after passing. They use their headlights. But as one point has also been made-since the onslought of DTR lights on so many cars today for "safety" a lot of people just don't pay much attention to headlights anymore. It seems that as things become more common place people just get used to em and so they aren't as effective. I think that most states now have the light on when raining laws-but most cars already have em on already. I don't even turn my headlights on at all anymore cause just like my bike--my trucks headlights are on with the switch.

Bottom line --if you feel better running a modulator-help yo self. If you hate em-don't run one! But always remember to ride like you are invisible---because to some folks you are!

Craig

[gibvel]

When I was in drivers Ed. I was taught that, even if someone has their turn signal on you wait for that driver to slow and initiate the turn before you even think about pulling out to go. This piece of training has saved me quite a few times.

 

The only time I've ever had a trucker flash their headlights at me is after I've passed them and they're letting me know I can pull back into the right lane because I'm at a safe distance and only at night. Even then I verify and reverify that my distance is safe by my own standards (head check and full view in the rear view mirror). I was never taught that drivers will flash their headlights at you when they are telling you to go ahead. Besides, my common sense tells me never to believe what another driver says unless I see and verify it.

 

I guess my question is, are they not teaching these things in Drivers Ed. any more or have they started teaching that it's okay to go if someone flashes their headlight?

 

In my estimation it was youth, inexperience, and lack of common sense that caused this. My first thought, when I heard how young the driver was was....."what the heck was she doing driving alone at 16?". Just my

[juggler]

I looked at modualtors, and have met several on the road. Although they stood out really well, the only way I knew what they were is because of sites like this. I can very well see how someone gets confused and doesn't know what to do.

 

This only points to very poor drivers training requirements in most if not all states. In Minnesota all I had to do to get a drivers license was to pass the written permit test and do six hours of behind the wheel training. That was all done in the tiny little town of Ely, MN where there are nothing more than small city streets and two lane highways. We only went on the highway once. To get my MC endorsement, in 1993, all I had to do was pass the written permit test and pass the state driving course. I passed the test by reading the book once and passed the driving course after riding a motorcycle for a whole 2 hours (My lifetime total since this was my first MC) before taking the test.

 

A few years ago the State of Minnesota threatened to pull the license of a driving school because they were providing more than the required training and teaching better defensive driving tactics. No clue why the state had such a fit.

 

16 is too young for many kids. Some do just fine, others just can't handle driving until they get older. Heck some people never get the hang of driving and are road hazards all their lives.

 

Gary's accident will most likely come down to the kid had an extreme lack of driving experience, very poor training and just isn't capable of making good decisions while driving.

[hig4s]

16 is way too young to be driving alone.

 

Subjective statement with no statistics or proof to back it up.

Insurances companies never break it down by single age groups. They just state that 15 to 20 is the most dangerous group. Should we make the driving age 21?

 

And no one has ever done a study that I can find to show the accident stats for drivers in there first two year of driving that waited until they were 18 or 19 to start driving.

 

There is no reason to believe that raising the age would change the idea that people in their first couple of years are most likely to make mistakes no matter what age they start driving at.

[Venturous Randy]

There is a difference between a strobe and a modulator. A modulator is inline with the power source going to your headlight. By breaking the circuit and reconnecting, it causes the headlight bulb to modulate on and off. A strobe is a separate bulb that is hooked to a capacitor that fires off of a built up charge.

Tennessee law, as I understand it, will allow a modulating headlight because technically the headlight never completely goes out. Also, most strobes exceed the allowable candle power allowed for lights. But they stay on such a short period of time that you do not realize how bright they are.

As I said, I have strobes in my headlight that are mounted by drilling a hole thru the reflector and plugging the strobe thru the hole.

RandyA

[BigShell]

There is no doubt... none... that the modulator on my headlight has stopped folks from pulling out in front of me. They start the roll then hit the brakes hard.

 

I have a toggle switch on mine so I can turn off the modulator when I want too. I try to remember to turn it off when I'm with a group, unless I'm leading. I usually forget, but I don't take offense if someone in the group asks me to turn it off. I figure the group gives us the needed visibility.

 

As far as confusing it with some other kind of signal. That would take quite a leap in judgment. It modulates way to fast to be mistaken for the kind of signals truckers use. It's too big and modulates too fast and is the wrong color for any kind of turn signal. The only thing mine has been mistaken for is an emergency vehicle.

 

Mine has help me avoid trouble more than once. I will continue to use it. If we are riding together in a group and it bothers you, just say something, I'll turn it off.

[Venturous Randy]

 

Gary's accident will most likely come down to the kid had an extreme lack of driving experience, very poor training and just isn't capable of making good decisions while driving.

 

I agree 100%!!!

RandyA

[Freebird]

Once we had bias ply tires and drove at a break neck speed of 60 mph, now we have radials and think nothing of 80 mph. Funny thing is, metal bends quicker at 80 than at 60.

Once we had incandescent lights that were hot and keep the snow off of the lenses, now we have halogen or even cooler running LEDs and have a snow build up problem.

Once we had headlights at night only but visibility in the daytime was bad so now we have lights all day long. Do we stand out anymore? Not really so we go to a strobe and really stand out.

In my opinion Freebird has a point and during our coffee stop on a ride this afternoon after I explained the accident, my fellow rider, Peter, and I looked at each other with the same Revelation look: do you think that in the flash of a moment that she took to evaluate the left oncoming traffic, that she may have mistaken the modulating light for a signal? Gary would not of had his signal on or he would have been ready to turn and so would not have been in the accident, so my assumption would be that the only thing flashing would be the headlight. Her mistake for sure, but one commonly and easily made. Should we ban modulators? I think not. We'll still use radials and LEDs for they are much safer, although they present new problems. I don't think Freebird was suggesting that we don't use modulators, but just want to point the hazards that may accompany them.

That's a lot of typing, I hope I said it write.

 

Thank you....that is exactly what I am saying. As I said in my first post, I do have a modulator on my bike. Will I leave it on there? I'm not sure at this point but as you say, I am NOT suggesting that people remove them. I am simply saying that regardless of how unlikely it may seem, it is possible that an inexperienced driver could simply glance your way, see a flash, assume you are turning and pull in front of you. I KNOW that it looks nothing like a turn signal but again...we are talking INEXPERIENCED DRIVERS here. An experienced driver wouldn't pull out like that even if there is a turn signal on. I would NEVER pull into the path of an oncoming vehicle regardless of a the turn signal until I actually see them entering the turn. Those are the things that separate the experienced from the inexperienced.

I'm not saying that you should use a modulator or that you should not use one....I'm simply saying that even if you truly believe that it makes you more visible, it certainly doesn't hurt to realize that there MAY be some instances where it could actually increase your risk. Even if that is only 1% of the time, just be aware of it.

[SledgeHammer]

Subjective statement with no statistics or proof to back it up.

Insurances companies never break it down by single age groups. They just state that 15 to 20 is the most dangerous group. Should we make the driving age 21?

 

And no one has ever done a study that I can find to show the accident stats for drivers in there first two year of driving that waited until they were 18 or 19 to start driving.

 

There is no reason to believe that raising the age would change the idea that people in their first couple of years are most likely to make mistakes no matter what age they start driving at.[/quote

 

I totally and respectfully disagree with you. NC did an extensive study on accidents involving teenagers. The result of that study is the Graduated Licenses in our state. This is copied from our DMV :

 

The Provisional Licensee:

Drivers under age 18 are provisional licensees. Because these drivers have a much higher crash rate, special laws apply to them. If you are a driver under age 18:

• You must present a certificate showing you have passed an approved driver education course that meets North Carolina requirements before you can take the test for a Learner Permit or License.
  
• The DMV reviews your driving record more closely and may contact you if you have certain types of traffic violations or crashes.
  
• It is unlawful for a provisional licensee to drive a motor vehicle after or while consuming alcohol or drugs - a conviction of such a violation will result in a one-year license revocation.
  
• A parent or legal guardian must sign for a minor.

Limited Learner Permit:

If you are at least 15 years of age and have completed an approved driver education course that meets North Carolina requirements and can present a Driving Eligibility Certificate (issued by the public school system), a high school diploma or its equivalent, you may apply for a Level One Limited Learner Permit to operate vehicles requiring a Class C License. You must also present proof of residency and social security number

• You must be at least 15 years old but less than 18 years old and reside in North Carolina.
  
• You must pass written, signs and vision tests.
  
• All passengers must be restrained by seatbelt or child safety seat.
  
• No one except the driver and the supervising driver are allowed in the front seat.
  
• During the first six months, a Level One permit authorizes you to drive between the hours of 5 a.m. and 9 p.m. while accompanied by your supervising driver.
  
• Six months from Level One issuance, you are eligible to drive anytime with your supervising driver.

Note: Before graduating to Level Two, you must keep this permit for at least 12 months and have no convictions of moving violations or seat belt infractions within the preceding six months.

 

Level Two Limited Provisional License:

• 
  
• Drivers must be at least 16 years old, but less than 18.
  
• All passengers must be restrained by seat belt or child safety seat.
  
• Supervising driver must be seated beside the driver.
  
• You may drive without supervision from 5 a.m. until 9 p.m. and at any time when driving directly to or from work or any volunteer fire, rescue or EMS (emergency medical service), if you are a member.
  
• When the license holder is driving the vehicle and is not accompanied by the supervising driver, there may be no more than one passenger under 21 years of age in the vehicle. This limit does not apply to passengers who are members of the license holder's immediate family or whose primary residence is the same household as the license holder. However, if a family member or member of the same household as the license holder who is younger than 21 years of age is a passenger in the vehicle, no other passengers under 21 years of age who are not member of the license holder's immediate family or members of the license holder's household, may be in the vehicle.

Note: Before graduating to Level Three, you must keep this license for at least 6 months and have no convictions of moving violations or seat belt infractions within the preceding six months. SUPERVISING DRIVER: A supervising driver must be a parent, grandparent, guardian of the permit/license holder, or a responsible person approved by the parent or guardian. A supervising driver must hold a valid driver license and must have been licensed for at least five years.

Level Three Full Provisional License:

• Upon completion of six months of driving with no convictions of moving violations or seat belt infractions, you are eligible to receive a Level Three License.

 

 

 

http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/graphics/pixel.gif

[Snarley Bill]

i think charlie is right.she is a young inexperienced driver that made a very bad decision.and thats the best story she could come up with.she's just getting an early start in the fast lane like most others on the road that are preoccupied.about modulators i don't care for them.very annoying to me.guess that means they ought to work.just think what it would be like if all cars had them.i personally like the highway lights and leave them on all the time.bill