Needle Shim Mod

[Shorty]

Can anyone inform me about the Needle Shim Mod for a 1300 First Gen?

[utadventure]

This is the link that I read and learned how to do it. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28432&highlight=needle+shim

 

I did this mod on my '86 last weekend. Normally I was getting 30-32 mpg out of most tanks. The best I ever got was 37 mpg but after the mod the next two tanks have been 40 mpg and I'll find out on the third tank tomorrow. (Got 37.5 mpg, higher speeds and headwind on this tank. Still much better than 30)

 

Good luck, definitely a great thing to do IHMO.

 

Dave

Edited June 7, 2010 by utadventure
Update info

[Evan]

Did the shim replacement job myself last month. Very easy to do and as with others, it did improve my gas mileage.

[jasonm.]

I have found that many do not realize that these Ventures when tested in the 80's got 35-45mpg easily on the gasoline of that era. Now you should expect to get 5% less mileage per gallon on today's crap we are forced to burn. BUT I believe some have poor mileage issues is due to a common carb condition. Very much common on Miukuni CV carbs. AKA leaking starter plungers. These are also called enricheners(choke) used to get extra fual to start the bike. Most of you know what I am talking about. Well, I have found 2 things. (1) the rubber in the brass plunger can wear. (2) the seat the plunger rests against can pit or corrode or get black bits of the plunger stuck to it. Either of these will cause poor mileage. Now the bad news . From the looks of Yamaha's web site. The plungers are available @$50+ ea. The seat assembly does not show on Yamaha's parts as an available item. I made a sudo-tool to resurface the seats. It's not something for the faint of heart. Lowering the needles makes up for the richness due to this and other problems. Just my $.02

[skydoc_17]

Hi Everyone,

Earl machines a set of Nylon Needle Shim Mod Spacers that takes all of the guess work out of doing the Needle Shim Mod. Here is the Link:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=2711&title=needle-shim-mod-nylon-spacers-21&cat=6

 

If you have any questions about the mod, please feel free to ask!

Jean

[Condor]

This is the link that I read and learned how to do it. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28432&highlight=needle+shim

 

I did this mod on my '86 last weekend. Normally I was getting 30-32 mpg out of most tanks. The best I ever got was 37 mpg but after the mod the next two tanks have been 40 mpg and I'll find out on the third tank tomorrow. (Got 37.5 mpg, higher speeds and headwind on this tank. Still much better than 30)

 

Good luck, definitely a great thing to do IHMO.

 

Dave

 

Thanks for the link Dave. I lost it during the HD crash, and had basically forgotten all about it. Going to do it to the '91 and the '99. How many other mods can you say will get your .30 cent investment back in the first gallon....

[utadventure]

Thanks for the link Dave. I lost it during the HD crash, and had basically forgotten all about it. Going to do it to the '91 and the '99. How many other mods can you say will get your .30 cent investment back in the first gallon....

 

Like you said, easy and inexpensive to do. I replaced the nylon shim with 2 #4 SS washers. I like the mileage improvements, have noticed a slight need for additional throttle when fighting head winds. I need to pull the plugs and evaluate if it's too lean this weekend. If so, I'll add a third washer to each. I do still need to sync the carbs since the mod.

 

Dave

[Shorty]

I have found that many do not realize that these Ventures when tested in the 80's got 35-45mpg easily on the gasoline of that era. Now you should expect to get 5% less mileage per gallon on today's crap we are forced to burn. BUT I believe some have poor mileage issues is due to a common carb condition. Very much common on Miukuni CV carbs. AKA leaking starter plungers. These are also called enricheners(choke) used to get extra fual to start the bike. Most of you know what I am talking about. Well, I have found 2 things. (1) the rubber in the brass plunger can wear. (2) the seat the plunger rests against can pit or corrode or get black bits of the plunger stuck to it. Either of these will cause poor mileage. Now the bad news . From the looks of Yamaha's web site. The plungers are available @$50+ ea. The seat assembly does not show on Yamaha's parts as an available item. I made a sudo-tool to resurface the seats. It's not something for the faint of heart. Lowering the needles makes up for the richness due to this and other problems. Just my $.02

 

Jason,

I got my first Standard 88 VR in 91, it had 1,600 miles on it. After it got broke-in I got 47 mpg at highway speeds with the Cruise on, my buddies VR only got 42 mpg. In the three years I owned it the milage stayed the same, it had 33,000 miles on it when I sold it.

My current 88 Standard VR (both were Salt Lake Silver/Gray) had 48,500 when I bought it six years ago, it now has 111,700 miles. The best mpg with this one has been 37 mpg at highway speeds with the Cruise on. I'm now getting 33 mpg. From day one with this bike the pipes would always have about a 1/8 inch of soot on the ends. The Plugs have always looked good and are a light tan.

I checked the diaphragms and all four are cracked. I'Ve got the diaphragms and slides ordered along with a K&N air filter. After these are in I'm sure the mpg will increase back to my normal 37 mpg.

Sooooooooo after that I'll keep a close eye on the plugs and MAY do the Needle Shim Mod. I sure would like to know why my first VR got 47 mpg though.

[Condor]

i sure would like to know why my first vr got 47 mpg though.

 

no ethanol....

[Venturous Randy]

Another easy thing that can be done on the needle shim mod is to take the stock shim and remove the raised bump on one surface. This will change it about .020 or so and will help without getting into the area of being too lean. We did this with Elmiko's bike, rather than putting in new washers and it worked great.

RandyA

[Condor]

Another easy thing that can be done on the needle shim mod is to take the stock shim and remove the raised bump on one surface. This will change it about .020 or so and will help without getting into the area of being too lean. We did this with Elmiko's bike, rather than putting in new washers and it worked great.

RandyA

 

I think it's the best bang for the buck modification we can make. The second best would be the beefed up fork braces... Sorry for the cheap plug, but I still have left overs from the last group buy....

Edited June 8, 2010 by Condor

[elmicko]

Another easy thing that can be done on the needle shim mod is to take the stock shim and remove the raised bump on one surface. This will change it about .020 or so and will help without getting into the area of being too lean. We did this with Elmiko's bike, rather than putting in new washers and it worked great.

RandyA

Yep and it worked great. It's also easy to do while you have to carb diaphragms out for changing. Best to do both at the same time. It only took Randy and I a little over an hour. It would have been quicker, but I was helping. LOL

[utadventure]

Yep and it worked great. It's also easy to do while you have to carb diaphragms out for changing. Best to do both at the same time. It only took Randy and I a little over an hour. It would have been quicker, but I was helping. LOL

 

 

Any feedback on mileage before and after. Inquiring minds want to know...oh, and me too.

 

Dave

[elmicko]

I wish I was anal enough to check my mileage before and after, but I didn't. Sorry, but I can tell I'm going farther on a tank if that helps any.

[Shorty]

no ethanol....

 

I understand that the ethanol is driving down our milage.

What I'm wondering is why did my first VR get 47 mpg while my buddies were only getting 42 mpg driving together and filling up together. That was back in 91 thru 94. Maybe mine had the Needle Shim Mod from the factory?

[Condor]

I understand that the ethanol is driving down our milage.

What I'm wondering is why did my first VR get 47 mpg while my buddies were only getting 42 mpg driving together and filling up together. That was back in 91 thru 94. Maybe mine had the Needle Shim Mod from the factory?

 

Good Karma....

[jasonm.]

I understand that the ethanol is driving down our milage.

What I'm wondering is why did my first VR get 47 mpg while my buddies were only getting 42 mpg driving together and filling up together. That was back in 91 thru 94. Maybe mine had the Needle Shim Mod from the factory?

Maybe you kept your bike in a higher gear on back roads or shifted sooner than you buddy. Thus you could get better mileage just by your riding style. Or simply, your bike was tuned better.

[Venturous Randy]

Any feedback on mileage before and after. Inquiring minds want to know...oh, and me too.

 

Dave

 

I was getting about 38/40 before replacing diaphragms and doing shim mod. Now, if I don't do much 70+ interstate runs, I am getting from 46/49. The diaphragms may have helped a little, but the biggest difference was the shim mod. The 46/49 I am getting has been mostly two up and not being babied.

RandyA

[Shorty]

Another easy thing that can be done on the needle shim mod is to take the stock shim and remove the raised bump on one surface. This will change it about .020 or so and will help without getting into the area of being too lean. We did this with Elmiko's bike, rather than putting in new washers and it worked great.

RandyA

 

So what takes up the space on the other side of what you filled off?

[Venturous Randy]

So what takes up the space on the other side of what you filled off?

 

On one side of the nylon washer, there is a pin the sticks out that goes into a hole on the mating part. On the otherside, there is a raised pad that sticks up about .020 or so. If you file off the raised pad, making the washer thinner, it is pretty much the same as replacing the washers. When you file off the raised pad, the washer then will fit flat.

I have some pictures I thought I posted showing the raised pad, but I can not find them. When I get home, I will see if I can find them in my computer. It will make more sense to see the part or the pictures.

RandyA

[Grisolm1]

I tried the shim mod but ended up taking it back out. Anybody have any advice to improve mileage other than keeping my lead foot out of it

 

New diaphraghms

New decel rubbers (small diaphraghms on side)

Total tear down

New Wires, Caps Plugs

 

Stock needle bushing was 0.100" Went to 0.75" and it felt too lean with surging. Mileage remained about same 35-38 mpg so I went back to 0.100"

 

Bike runs real strong with no noticalbe lag at 0.100" Definitely running on all 4.

 

Where are you guys running your idle screws with this mod? I tried 2 2-1/4 and 2 1/2 with no noticible difference in surging at moderate throttle. Maybe this mod needs more than 2 -1/2 turns out?

[Evan]

Any feedback on mileage before and after. Inquiring minds want to know...oh, and me too. Dave

I was all over the map but averaging about 36 mpg (US) before I recently replaced diaphragms and did the Skydoc shim mod. Since then, I have averaged over 42 mpg on my last three tanks riding mostly at 70mph +.

[Shorty]

I tried the shim mod but ended up taking it back out. Anybody have any advice to improve mileage other than keeping my lead foot out of it

 

New diaphraghms

New decel rubbers (small diaphraghms on side)

Total tear down

New Wires, Caps Plugs

 

Stock needle bushing was 0.100" Went to 0.75" and it felt too lean with surging. Mileage remained about same 35-38 mpg so I went back to 0.100"

 

Bike runs real strong with no noticalbe lag at 0.100" Definitely running on all 4.

 

Where are you guys running your idle screws with this mod? I tried 2 2-1/4 and 2 1/2 with no noticible difference in surging at moderate throttle. Maybe this mod needs more than 2 -1/2 turns out?

 

What do you mean with "Total tear down"?

Also what color is your 88 Standard?

[jasonm.]

Since I got my bike's idle set on the EGA machine. #3 still is darker than the other plugs . Yes, new plugs put in. Then I remembered I used the needle jets from the spare carbs on #3 & #4. Then shortly after this latest darkness of spark plug #3 issue came up. CRAP! now I will likely need the shim MOD on 3 & 4 or tear the carbs down again to replace the needle jets w/originals. Seems the spare had more miles than I figured. As I am not into taking the carbs out and apart for the 3rd time in 2 months. I am going to get it "dyno-tuned" this Saturday. And see if it's too rich under load on #3 and maybe #4. Shim it if I have to. There is not enough space on this page for the the 4 letter words I keep screaming. I am so angry with myself...

Edited July 7, 2010 by jasonm.

[Grisolm1]

What do you mean with "Total tear down"?

Also what color is your 88 Standard?

 

Stripped and soaked each carb in a coffe can of coleman camp fuel for a week minimum. Blew out all passages with carb cleaner. All gaskets, float valve, o- rings, decel diaphragm and main diaphragms replaced.

 

My std is silver and brown. What color is yours?