Elecrical problem? Any Ideas?

[WAC1972]

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could give me some ideas as to where to start looking for my problem. I started my bike ( 96 Royal Star) yesterday with no problems and ran to the store. When I came out the bike would not start. It seemed like a low battery with just a few clicks being heard. I was near a hill so I rolled on down ,popped the clutch and the bike fired up. I got about a mile down the rode when I got a loud backfire and when I looked down all my gauges where going crazy. Speedo was bouncing and the other lights were blinking madly. I was able to get the bike home as long as I did not accelerate. The bike did hold an idle. After I got home I turned the bike off and tried to restart it but there was nothing but some faint clicking that sounded like the fuel pump trying to work.I charged the battery overnight although it really didn't need it and tried starting the bike this morning. I just get the fuel pump clicking. The headlights and neutral light are very dim but do come on. Any ideas? Thanks

[royalstarjac]

The older royals are well known for ignition switch failures. I would start there. No pun intended.

Or possibly a starter relay. I would try jumping the battery and see what it does. A battery can seem ok and still be shot.

[Squidley]

The older royals are well known for ignition switch failures. I would start there. No pun intended.

 

I'll second that thought, also make sure all of the battery connections are tight and clean.

[WAC1972]

The bike starts with a jump but still has all the electrical problems while running. Thanks

[LilBeaver]

The bike starts with a jump but still has all the electrical problems while running. Thanks

 

I'd measure the voltage while running at idle, then rev it up a little while still measuring and see what you read. If anything over 13.8V, we could probably isolate your problem to a bad ground or a regulator/rectifier problem.

 

It is likely that you will need a battery too, but one step at a time.

 

If you can take that measurement and report back, we can continue to help troubleshoot.

 

I don't know that a bad ignition switch would give the same symptoms that you have described.

 

 

This is a rather comprehensive thread regarding some electrical issues I had (turned out to be a batter, ground and regulator/rectifier unit). I realize that you do not have an RSV, but the basic principles of the electrical system are still the same.

Note the 'summary' of the 1st post describes the symptoms that I noticed while on the road.

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38577

[wes0778]

Thinking outside the box; After you charge the battery, check the voltage directly across the battery terminals, then check the voltage from the Pos(+) battery terminal to a bare spot on the frame and then the engine. Those readings should be VERY close to the voltage directly across the battery. Now chase the Positive battery cable to the first junction and check the voltage between it and the negative battery terminal. That reading too should be VERY close to the reading across the battery. This tests the positive and negative cables. You are probably jumping it with a car battery, which may have enough CCAs to overcome the bad cables. just my

[calperin]

I got the same kind of problems when I purchased my 97'RS.

 

Believe or not after every kind of searches, I found that all was due to loose connections on the battery. Even when they looks firm, I was able to move the cables with my hand really easy.

 

I finally attached a lock washer on each positive & negative screws, and after 3 years it never happened again.

 

Still with the same battery, and it starts after winter sleep.

 

my 2 cents....

 

Regards,

 

:dancefool:

[WAC1972]

Thanks folks I will have to wait until Wed. to look at it. It's time to take the kids to Disney for the weekend. I appreciate all the help/ideas. I'll report back later next week. Thanks again

[WAC1972]

I got back from Disney tonight and started a quick check on my electrical problem. The bike started with a jump and ran pretty well with choke out until warm. When I brought the idle down the lights started fading, tail light flickered. Any accelerating brought lights back up to steady but the bike popped,stuttered and backfired. I took the battery out of bike and volt tested it. It rated 13.25 on my multimeter. I will put it back in the bike in the morning and test it with the bike running and revved. Update tomorrow.

[Globewalker]

Sounds like regulator and/or battery (possibly also stator).

I had a Honda that dogged and died on me, left me hanging.. was regulator and battery.

 

Measure voltage at battery while running and with lights on and revving and idle.. should stay consistent at 13.8ish if all is well.

 

If battery is old.. go ahead and try that first.

[LilBeaver]

Sounds like regulator and/or battery (possibly also stator).

I had a Honda that dogged and died on me, left me hanging.. was regulator and battery.

 

Measure voltage at battery while running and with lights on and revving and idle.. should stay consistent at 13.8ish if all is well.

 

If battery is old.. go ahead and try that first.

 

This is actually is not true all the time. It may happen, but if it doesn't it does not necessarily mean that something is wrong.

At idle, the stator will not generate enough power to actually charge up the system, so it is possible (and quite likely) that you will get a reading that is, in fact, lower than 13.8V at idle or very low revs. This is why for an effective test of the charging system one must rev above idle.

 

Explanation:

 

This happens because a stator generates electricity by exploiting what is known as Faraday's law. That is curl(E)=-dB/dt, or basically - one of two possible sources of an electric field is the result of a time varying magnetic field. In the case of the stator, there are several wires wrapped in such a fashion to enclose a rotating magnet. The rotation of the magnet is tied to the revolution of the engine. I'll spare the rest of the Physics lecture, unless someone really wants to know more.

 

While the magnet in the stator rotates faster, more current is induced in the surrounding wires, which routes through the regulator/rectifier (turns AC to DC and dumps, to ground, any 'extra' generated electricity that the bike does not need). Therefore you will reach a 'saturation' value (in our case ~13.8V) at which point despite an increase in the speed of which the magnet is rotating, if measured in the circuit AFTER a properly functioning rectifier/regulator unit, one will not read a value any higher than 13.8V. Thusly, if you do read something significantly higher than 13.8V, then you can be pretty confident that something is not functioning properly within the regulator/rectifier unit (either the unit is defective, or there is a bad connection to ground).

 

I'll stop here, unless there is something else that someone would like clarified. I would also direct attention to the thread that I referred to above, as much of this information has already been documented.

[WAC1972]

Okay I put the battery back in this morning and bike doesn't start. I jumped with 12v car battery and fires right up and runs great as long as jumper cables are still attached. I checked voltage with car battery still attached and is 12.8 across the battery and 12.8 with grounding to the frame. As soon as I remove the jumper battery the bike barely runs and it is hard to rev up for a higher rpm voltage check. At a very sporadic idle the volts across the battery drop to about 6 and stay there while grounded to frame. I can't really check it at higher rpm's because the bike won't go there. I am taking the battery to a Auto shop on my way to work today to have it tested. Tomorrow is another day and I'll continue.

[Condor]

Okay I put the battery back in this morning and bike doesn't start. I jumped with 12v car battery and fires right up and runs great as long as jumper cables are still attached. I checked voltage with car battery still attached and is 12.8 across the battery and 12.8 with grounding to the frame. As soon as I remove the jumper battery the bike barely runs and it is hard to rev up for a higher rpm voltage check. At a very sporadic idle the volts across the battery drop to about 6 and stay there while grounded to frame. I can't really check it at higher rpm's because the bike won't go there. I am taking the battery to a Auto shop on my way to work today to have it tested. Tomorrow is another day and I'll continue.

 

I had a car battery once that checked out great on the multi-meter, but when it was load tested it croaked. Internal short. The battery dealer even thought it was good initially, but the load test proved us all wrong.... He also said he'd seen it before, but it was rare that a battery would take a charge, give the right volts, and still die under load.

[MikeWa]

Sounds like a bad battery.

Mike

[calperin]

I'm sorry, but you're doing everything but what all asked.

 

You need to check voltage with the bike battery connected, without the nothing else.

 

And you can do it, putting the voltmeter when you have the jumper from the car on it, and then remove the jumper and check the voltage even if the machine stop running.

 

Moving in and out, will not let anybody understand what is going on.

 

:doh:

[hunter 1500]

Try taking the ground for the battery where it grounds to the engine and cleaning it. Had this same type of problem with my last bike once and that's all it was.

[LilBeaver]

I'm sorry, but you're doing everything but what all asked.

 

You need to check voltage with the bike battery connected, without the nothing else.

 

And you can do it, putting the voltmeter when you have the jumper from the car on it, and then remove the jumper and check the voltage even if the machine stop running.

...

 

:think: From what he posted here (below), I believe that he DID do what you suggested above. A terminal voltage reading with the battery not connected to anything would have been helpful too, but by him taking the battery somewhere to get it tested, will be conclusive.

 

Okay I put the battery back in this morning and bike doesn't start. I jumped with 12v car battery and fires right up and runs great as long as jumper cables are still attached. I checked voltage with car battery still attached and is 12.8 across the battery and 12.8 with grounding to the frame. As soon as I remove the jumper battery the bike barely runs and it is hard to rev up for a higher rpm voltage check. At a very sporadic idle the volts across the battery drop to about 6 and stay there while grounded to frame. I can't really check it at higher rpm's because the bike won't go there. I am taking the battery to a Auto shop on my way to work today to have it tested. Tomorrow is another day and I'll continue.

 

Good, this ought to be quite conclusive.

 

The other thing that I would do at this point (based on what you had described about your measurement dropping to 6V when you took the jumper cables off and the bike was still [sort of] running) is a quick resistance measurement of the stator. This can be done at the regulator/rectifier plug or at the wire harness that comes directly out of the stator. On the RSV it is just below the fuel filter, in front of the battery box - but I couldn't tell you where it is on your bike.

 

Keep us posted on what you find (which I presume sort of goes without saying...)

[Sgtglenn]

I'd be leaning towards a bad cell in the battery.

I've had brand new batteries not holding charges due to bad cells, either

mishandled in shipping or poor quality control during manufacturing:doh:

[WAC1972]

I had the battery tested today and it tested just like it did on the bike. It was 12+ volts and then dropped to 6 volts with a load on it. The battery is old and bad so I have ordered aDeka ETX 20L. It should be here in a day or so and I hope all will be well.

[LilBeaver]

I had the battery tested today and it tested just like it did on the bike. It was 12+ volts and then dropped to 6 volts with a load on it. The battery is old and bad so I have ordered aDeka ETX 20L. It should be here in a day or so and I hope all will be well.

 

There you go! It probably wouldn't hurt to go ahead and do the voltage test (with the bike running) once you get the new battery charged up and installed - just to make sure the stator and reg/rect unit is okay, and check you grounds if you have not done so already.

The 'freaking out' of your dash lights and such is not something that would normally happen if it was just the battery, however, I am not saying that it isn't possible...

 

Just a thought if you get some time and to make sure you've got the problem solved and not just treated a symptom.

 

[WAC1972]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I'll let you all know how it turns out when the battery arrives. A special " Thanks" to LilBeaver, your posts are helpful and educational. Next up after this will be an attempt at a carb sync.

[LilBeaver]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I'll let you all know how it turns out when the battery arrives. A special " Thanks" to LilBeaver, your posts are helpful and educational. Next up after this will be an attempt at a carb sync.

 

You are very welcome my friend. I'm glad that you learned something from this!

[WAC1972]

I ordered a battery (Deka ETX20L) out of a shop in FL on Thursday morning and already received it this morning (Sat). I put it in the bike and she fired right up and runs great. I checked the voltage across the battery with bike running and to the frame and all checks out. I will check voltage to the regulator later. I plan on changing the oil and in order to get the filter off I have to get at the regulator anyway. I got the Deka ETX20L from this shop (Bohannon Battery) for $77 free shipping. I recommend them to anyone looking to purchase a battery. They had quick service and great communication. Thanks again to everyone

[LilBeaver]

I ordered a battery (Deka ETX20L) out of a shop in FL on Thursday morning and already received it this morning (Sat). I put it in the bike and she fired right up and runs great. I checked the voltage across the battery with bike running and to the frame and all checks out. I will check voltage to the regulator later. I plan on changing the oil and in order to get the filter off I have to get at the regulator anyway. I got the Deka ETX20L from this shop (Bohannon Battery) for $77 free shipping. I recommend them to anyone looking to purchase a battery. They had quick service and great communication. Thanks again to everyone

 

Well there you go. If it read somewhere between 13.5V and 14V while the bike was revved, then you are in good shape and probably do not need to do anything further.

 

If you do end up having the reg/rec off when you change your oil, just take a peek at the harness to make sure there is no sign of burn marks or corrosion. If it is clean, then I'd put it back on and not worry about it.

 

Batteries to go bad from time to time.

 

Glad it worked out and was rather straight forward!!

 

[jburrell]

The older royals are well known for ignition switch failures. I would start there. No pun intended.

Or possibly a starter relay. I would try jumping the battery and see what it does. A battery can seem ok and still be shot.

 

 

I had my switch quit but not the issues like you did. For a quick test pull the gas tank and unplug the 2 wires that go to the switch to start the engine. You can jump across these wires with a short piece of wire and find out if the switch is the issue. In my case I found that i could now start the bike and everything worked correctly. Check the tec sectio n on how to install a by-pass switch in case it ever happens again.With my switch i can reach under the seat and hit the toggle and start bike withour the key. That is why you may want to install in and then disable it until you need it. If this works buy a new switch and swap out only the bottom half and you can continue to use the same keys.

 

my