Battery keeps dying in the garage...

[Semi-retired]

Anyone got any ideas about what sequence of diagnostic checks I might make for this problem?

 

- I go to start my bike......the battery is close to dead.....might get half a turn on the starter, then just clickety click. (this is after it's been out, running around town several times already this Spring.........I'm in the land of ice and snow, so we're now "in season")

 

- I put the battery on the 4-amp charger for an hour

 

- The bike then fires up fine. Take if for a half hour ride. Stop for coffee, whatever. Starts fine again. Come home and park it. Next day, starts fine. Same routine.

 

- HOWEVER......leave the bike parked for two or three days.....and, bingo, back to line #1.

 

Questions:

 

1. How do I find out if it's the battery or the charging system?

 

2. Is there a particular reading I should get off the battery at each point in my scenarios, above?

 

Thanks for any guidance.

(Ordinarily, I'd just go out and buy a new battery........but I thought I did that LAST year!! Alzheimer's strikes deep, though......and I'm not really sure!! LOL)

 

Mike

[LilBeaver]

...

Questions:

 

1. How do I find out if it's the battery or the charging system?

 

2. Is there a particular reading I should get off the battery at each point in my scenarios, above?

 

...

 

First and foremost, if you are doing simple around town type riding, there is a good chance (especially if it is cooler out) that your battery is simply not charging back up while you ride (do to not having a long enough sustained higher revs to charge the battery while driving like it is supposed to). A common misconception is that if the bike is running (or any vehicle for that matter) the battery is being charged. On motorcycles (especially on ours when it is cooler and the carb heaters are on, headlights, radio, heated gear - whatever) when the bike idles the stator does not generate enough power to charge the battery and run the bike, so the bike runs somewhat off of the battery. So if you have a bunch of 'around town' short trips, especially if it is cooler out (ie carb heaters on), it is possible that you have simply sufficeintly depleated enough charge from the battery that you don't have enough juice left to start it. BUT, I would still check the system, to make sure.

 

First I would check the battery, then the charging system, then I would check to see if there is some parasitic drain somewhere in the system.

 

1) Check the battery:

A) If it is not an AGM type battery, check the fluid levels of the battery itself

B) Take a terminal voltage reading with the battery hooked to the bike (like normal) but with everything off (should be somewhere above say 12.5 Volts or so)

C) Turn the key to the on position (with your voltmeter still connected to the battery) and note the new reading. If a this point the reading drops well below 11.8V or so then you likely have an issue with the battery, if not then go to the next step.

D) Push the starter button and see what happens. If the reading drops well below that 11V mark, then you probably have an issue with the battery.

ALTERNATIVE BATTERY TEST: E) You could just take your battery to a place that sells batteries (in my experience, most auto parts stores offer some sort of free battery test). These battery tests are not perfect, but they simply do a load test without it connected to the bike. If you have an acid battery you could test the electrolyte and look at each plate in the battery to make a decision as to the condition of the battery, but we'll come back to that if you need to.

 

2) Check the charging system:

A) Start the bike (with the voltmeter connected) and rev the motor up (service manual says to take it up to 5k RPM, but you don't have to go that high). When revved up, you should get a reading of at least 13.5V or so. If it is significantly less than that, you have a problem with the charging system.

B) For completeness, I would check the resistance of the stator (should be between 0.279 and 0.371 ohms) -- To do this you can do it from above the rectifier or you can do it with the harness that comes directly out of the stator. The harness is located below the fuel filter. It is white, however, it is most likely covered in road grime and crap. It is a little bit of a bear to get to, but it is there.

C) Check the harness that the regulator/rectifier unit plugs into. look for any sign of burnt pins, etc. There is not a conclusive bench test for the regulator/rectifier unit, but if you get a voltage reading (with the motor revved) of anything above 14V, you probably need to replace your rectifier.

D) You could also start the bike and do an AC voltage measurement at this connector, but that is really not necessary if you have the 13.8V at a high RPM and the resistance checks out.

 

3) Check for parasitic drain while the bike is in the 'off' position.

The easiest way to do this is to take an ammeter (multi-meter on the DC current setting) and pull each fuse one by one and measure the current through the bike. If you want to make it easy on your self, start with the main fuse (with the key in the OFF position) and write down that measurement. It will NOT be 0, but it will be on the order of milli-amps. Then, in the fuse box (right next to where the main fuse is) pull out the fuse that says 'back-up'. (Don't worry, this will not mess with the reverse system on the bike ) Measure the current through this fuse (by removing the fuse and touching both leads of your meter to the contacts that the fuse plug into). If your reading is identical to what you read of off the main fuse than you either 1) do not have any electrical drain issues) or 2) Have an intermittent drain issue. So while this test has the potential to be inconclusive, if you find that there is a significant difference between the reading from the main fuse and the back-up fuse, then proceed through the fuse boxes until you find the circuit that is drawing current with the bike off, and then we can go from there.

 

4) Check all of the grounds on the bike for clean and good contact. There are several.

A) On engine block just behind stock horn

B) Under plastic piece on the right side of the bike just in front of the fuel tank - you need to remove the tank to get to this puppy -- This is connected to the electrical junk inside the fairing by a a braided wire to a tab on the mount that the radio amplifier is connected to.

C) Someone reported that there is one under the trunk too - I think for the CB, but I have not verified that one or exactly where it is.

 

Hope this helps!!

 

[BoomerCPO]

When I lived in Noo England I would keep a Battery Tender on 24/7. Cheap price to pay to keep the bike ready for a ride when the roads/weather turned clear.

 

I put an Odessey battery in 1 1/2 years ago and THAT battery is far superior to the regular MC batteries on the market.

 

If that regular battery is 2 years or older I'd dump it and slap a new one in....and keep that Battery Tender on the pup when yer not riding.

 

Boomer.....who's outta the frozen North and riding the flatlands of Loozeeanner selling pygmies,chasing wimmen,and fighting cheesecake withdrawal.

[Squidley]

and fighting cheesecake withdrawal.

 

 

You know where to scratch that itch Chief

 

 

Mike,

 

Put a full charge in the battery and take it in to one of your auto parts store there in Canada and have them do a load test on it. That will tell you if your battery is up to snuff, or if you have a bad cell.

 

The book that Rick wrote is good advise too

[Royal Venturer]

I pull in the garage and the bike goes on the battery tender (used to have a battery tender junior , now have the dual from them) and it doesn't matter how long I've ridden, or how hot the bike is.

My battery is 6 1/2 years old, same as the bike, since it was new and not problem one!

[uechi kid]

I pull in the garage and the bike goes on the battery tender (used to have a battery tender junior , now have the dual from them) and it doesn't matter how long I've ridden, or how hot the bike is.

My battery is 6 1/2 years old, same as the bike, since it was new and not problem one!

Wow! 6 1/2 years? That almost unheard of for any type of vehicle.

[ediddy]

I dont' know how to check it but I had the same problem and it was the rectifier. I had the same battery for 5 years and let it set for about 3 days without riding and battery was dead. Got new battery and it was fine unless I let bike set for 2 or 3 days. Took battery back and got a new one to replace it at no charge. Battery was fine until l let bike set for 2 or 3 days and it went dead. Bought a battery tender. As long as I kept on the battery tender it was ok but one day I rode to work and after work got on bike and it wouldn't start. I took my bike to the dealer and they replaced the rectifier under warranty and I haven't had any problems since.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Great write-up by Rick...I wont duplicate that, but, Mike, did you have that battery on a battery tender/automatic maintainer all winter?

 

If yes, and the load test shows good, then assume you have charging system issues.

 

If yes and the battery tests bad, then the tender is suspect and the battery is now dying.

 

If no, and the battery tests good, it may simply have sulfated due to resting for many months with a slowly draining electrical system, and the battery needs to be replaced and the bike is fine. You MIGHT try a sulfate buster, but likely hood of recovery is low, especially with an AGM battery, if thats what you have.

 

If no and the battery tests bad, it went bad ( or sulfated) and is only holding a minimal or surface charge, and is self-discharging...replace it.

 

Any bike in winter storage should have the battery on a good maintainer...one less thing to worry about next riding season.

[Sailor]

Make sure the radio/cb/tape deck is turned off. I had the same problem. I would use the radio or tape deck while riding and assumed it turned off when I turned the bike off. If I left the bike for a few days the battery would be dead. When I turned the radio/cb/tape off before shutting down the bike the battery would hold its charge.

[BIG MO]

My done the same thing . Replace battery 3 times SHOP replace the rectifer still no charge then replace stator . Still no charge . Come to find out the plug in for the rectifer was bad . That was a $800.00 plug not a happy camper . But the battery is charging now . Make sure you check the plug first gene

[Semi-retired]

Hi, guys.

 

Thanks VERY much for all the tips and tricks on the battery quandary, gang.

 

Rick, you out-did yourself. (was your response lifted straight out of your PHD thesis by any chance? It certainly was comprehensive!)

 

I'm curious to know what you think of some of the other, less sophisticated (no offense, guys) solutions involving things as mundane as just hooking up to a tender when I pull in to the garage.....? (I'm assuming the folks that mentioned that one must actually PACK a small tender with them when they go on the road?)

 

I had a 'busy' winter with some knee surgery, my son's wedding and a few other brain-scramblers....so, I'm thinking I probably didn't pay as much attention to the old battery as I should have. So, it's probably sulfated, as someone suggested.

 

Here's my plan of attack:

Charge the crap out of the battery......then take it in to a battery place for a load test (thanks, Rick, Squid and Brian.)

 

If it comes up looking like a loser (and it very well may, based on the way I've neglected it).....then maybe I'll try the tender thing (I do have one) while I'm doing my short-run rides around town. (Not that I'm cheap.......I'm just thinking a few amps overnight will end up costing me less than a new battery.)

 

When I leave town for any overnight stays, perhaps I'll pack momma's little helper in my saddlebag, just in case.

 

If the problem prevails, I'll bite the bullet and buy a new brick.......and take care of it next Winter.......promise!!

 

If/when I DO get the new battery and it has problems (even if I AM giving it TLC).....then I'll get into the PHD material, kindly supplied by Rick. (I WILL check some of those readings you gave me, Rick, just out of curiosity......and to impress the hell out of wifey.....she'll be the one holding the leads on the multi-meter while I'm twiddling all the knobs and switches!)

 

Thanks again, guys, for all your time and attention!

[Al Bates]

AB Battery Check 5.23.2010

 

Simple and quick.

 

Battery Check:

Make sure the battery is fully charge.

Some way stop the engine from starting, ground out the coils or cut off the fuel.

Place a dc volt meter across the battery + & - should read somewhere around 13 volts

Crank the engine for 15 sec watch the volt meter, if the volts drops below 9.6 it's time for a new battery, closer to 9.6 weaker the battery.

 

Battery Drain check:

Make sure the battery is fully charge.

Turn off everything on the bike.

Remove one of the battery cables, take a 12 volt test light and place it between the battery and the battery cable, one end of the test light on the battery and the other end of the test light to the cable. The test light should be out. If the test light is on the battery will have a drain. Now start pulling fuses until you fine it.

 

If the test light is out there is no drain on the battery, to test this turn on your head lights the head lights will not come on but the test light will, the test light should be super bright, head lamps will be max drain, brighter the light more drain on the battery. Now turn off the head lamps and the light should go out.

 

Note: Check your test light before starting. Place it across any 12 volt battery.

[Kregerdoodle]

don`t park in the Garage!!

[LilBeaver]

Mike:

 

Thanks for the kind words. I'm no expert on these things, I just have played the electrical game once or twice with my bike...

 

If I am interpreting your latest post correctly, you left the battery in the bike (presumably in an unheated garage or outside) not on a maintainer for the winter? If that is the case then your battery is probably not real happy with you.

 

NOTE: The following text does not directly relate to the issue at hand but only to the question referenced in the following quote

 

,,,

 

Rick, ...

 

I'm curious to know what you think of some of the other, less sophisticated (no offense, guys) solutions involving things as mundane as just hooking up to a tender when I pull in to the garage.....? (I'm assuming the folks that mentioned that one must actually PACK a small tender with them when they go on the road?)

...

 

 

 

With respect to your question about how I feel about the 'stick it on a tender in the garage' as a 'solution', I don't want to get into anything with anyone on here but I will offer my opinion, since you asked. And if anyone disagrees with me, that is fine - I have no problem furthering discussion about it but do understand that I certainly am not trying to stir anything up or offend anyone or whatever here, just answering the question with an explanation of my method of thought.

 

While sticking the battery on a tender while it sits in the garage is not a bad thing and if you do a lot of around town type riding where you are at low revs and on it for a short time, then putting the bike on a tender when you get home certainly is not a bad idea at all. If you do all of the tests and determine that there is not a problem other than you aren't on the bike long enough to properly charge up the battery (while riding) then I think we all would agree that plugging it in routinely is the solution.

 

I think that using the 'plug it in and forget it' approach (as a solution) is not necessarily all that wise, right now, because you have sufficient reason to believe that there is, in fact, a problem. Plugging it in when you get home may treat the symptom(s) but may not address the actual problem. Under normal circumstances, one should not have the problem that you describe. I ride my bike daily, and on many occasions start it up multiple times a day. I also travel a lot for work purposes. Sometimes I am gone for 2 to 4 weeks at a time. I do not usually put the battery on a tender while I am gone, nor do I take the battery out of the bike (at least, since I have been living in Texas). When I lived in Michigan and Illinois, I would take the batteries out of all of my bikes and keep them in the house (if I didn't park the bike in the house) for the winter times that I was not riding.

My train of thought it that if the bike has a hard start, cranks hard, or whatever I would rather fix the problem than simply treat the symptoms. Nothing says 'good time' like taking a rest break somewhere in the middle of nowhere and finding yourself on the side of the road in 100+ degree heat trying to push start the 900 lb beast.

 

Point being: I'd rather be sure that I address the actual problem opposed to just treating the symptoms. If the solution is that say the bike isn't running long enough to fully recharge the battery, then the solution is put it on a battery tender as necessary.

 

I have often been told that I go a little (or a lot) overboard when I troubleshoot problems with almost anything. Last summer when I asked for help with my bike on here, I seem to have ticked a few people off, being as thorough as I was as well as posting information that I found as I went along - I think that some misinterpreted my posting additional information as 'questioning' or 'doubting' their suggestions (where some offered things to do with no explanation as to why) when, in some instances, I was just putting up information about what I had done so that if someone else had a similar problem they would have a reasonable write up to go off of to help troubleshoot their own problems (too often I find on here when I search for some particular issues or whatever, I find a lot of threads that start but don't conclude). Also, they weren't the ones that were going to have to trust my bike to get them somewhere (not to mention fork up the money for the parts). At the time I was gearing up for a 3 week (5k mile trip) and wanted to be darn sure I had the problem figured out. It also gave me an opportunity to satisfy some of my curiosity about the electrical system of our RSVs. I have always been interested in how things work and way things do what they do, etc (hence my being a Physicist). So my 'troubleshooting' sometimes turns into a big question and answer session for me as I work on whatever it is I am working on. I especially enjoy analyzing something that failed and figure out why it failed.

 

So. There is my long winded answer to your question. I hope that my time in putting the explanations on to my statements help folks understand the 'why' and motivation behind statements and suggestions that I make from time to time and maybe help someone learn something too. After all, we all learn from each other, experiences and asking questions.

Edited May 26, 2010 by LilBeaver
Added quote and fixed some grammar

[Guest tx2sturgis]

Just to be clear, in case there is some confusion....I think a maintainer is a good idea when the bike will sit un-used for 2 weeks or more, to balance the parasitic drain ( from the bikes electronics) and the self discharge that all batteries have (up to about 5% a month during warm weather, and less when the battery is cold). And yes, winter storage is a reason to put a maintainer on a battery, and yes, if you tend to 'short trip' the bike, day in and day out, then again, a maintainer will help.

 

But if your on a trip, or ride the bike for at least 15 minutes or so when its warm weather, or at least 30 minutes when its quite cold outside, then the battery should NOT need a charger, so dont pack it along...if you encounter a problem with a dead battery while traveling, or on longer in-town stints, then you have a problem that a maintainer wont address.

 

[LilBeaver]

Just to be clear, in case there is some confusion....I think a maintainer is a good idea when the bike will sit un-used for 2 weeks or more, to balance the parasitic drain ( from the bikes electronics) and the self discharge that all batteries have (up to about 5% a month during warm weather, and less when the battery is cold). And yes, winter storage is a reason to put a maintainer on a battery, and yes, if you tend to 'short trip' the bike, day in and day out, then again, a maintainer will help.

 

But if your on a trip, or ride the bike for at least 15 minutes or so when its warm weather, or at least 30 minutes when its quite cold outside, then the battery should NOT need a charger, so dont pack it along...if you encounter a problem with a dead battery while traveling, or on longer in-town stints, then you have a problem that a maintainer wont address.

 

 

Sometimes I get too wordy...

[ediddy]

Good point. You need to know what is causing the problem. You can buy a new battery like I did and have it go dead in a few weeks. Over the years I have found it is less expensive to find the problem before you start replacing parts.

[Semi-retired]

Thanks, again, to all contributors!

 

I'll be sure to post a "resolution statement" here sometime over the next few days so that we can all learn a little more about RSV electrics based on my particular scenario.

 

Hopefully the bottom line is going to be that the bike's components are all OK and that it's a case of a battery gone tired before it's time due to winter neglect and NOT ENOUGH RIDING!! Thankfully, I know the solutions to BOTH of these concerns. (The first one being a little easier to rectify than the second one. )

 

Cheers,

Mike

[Flyinfool]

But the second one is the one that you really should find a way to rectify.

[Semi-retired]

I appreciated receiving such a wide range of wisdom from a wide range of commentators....but, in the end, knowing that a) I have little patience for multiple tests under multiple conditions following multiple sequences.....and b) that the bike AND its battery were working fine last summer (before I totally neglected BOTH all winter long)......I opted for the quick, easy (albeit somewhat expensive) $120 solution and traded in my questionable battery (to get the core exchange refund) and put a brand new "unquestionable"12V baby in the bike.

 

Everything's been running fine for about two weeks since the new one went in. Mind you, I HAVE picked up on a couple of those suggestions about turning off the radio AND the kill switch every time I park for the night.

 

I haven't bothered hooking up the tender each night, but I may do that when rides get fewer and farther between, closer to Fall.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

Michael

[KevinsDa1]

I had the same problem and it turned out to be the crappy battery that they install in the factory. I upgraded to a heavy duty maintenance free at the dealer for $103 and it is running like a dream.

 

Now on to Sturgis on the River this weekend, maybe I'll see some Venture Riders there (mine will be the 2009 S model with no chrome on the fairing and full of bugs).

 

Kevin

 

[Flyinfool]

I appreciated receiving such a wide range of wisdom from a wide range of commentators....but, in the end, knowing that a) I have little patience for multiple tests under multiple conditions following multiple sequences.....and b) that the bike AND its battery were working fine last summer (before I totally neglected BOTH all winter long)......I opted for the quick, easy (albeit somewhat expensive) $120 solution and traded in my questionable battery (to get the core exchange refund) and put a brand new "unquestionable"12V baby in the bike.

 

Everything's been running fine for about two weeks since the new one went in. Mind you, I HAVE picked up on a couple of those suggestions about turning off the radio AND the kill switch every time I park for the night.

 

I haven't bothered hooking up the tender each night, but I may do that when rides get fewer and farther between, closer to Fall.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input.

 

Michael

 

I use a solar powered tender over the winter only. (bike is kept in a steel shed with no power.)

In spring and fall there are times where the bike may sit for 2 or 3 weeks at a time with no problem. I have a 3 year old battery of whatever Kmart sells.

[GeorgeS]

OK, one last item here. I know you put in a " New " battery as you said.

 

But, did you Charge the New Battery ??? As per the MFG instructions, with a

" real battery charger " not just the trickle charger.

[Semi-retired]

OK, one last item here. I know you put in a " New " battery as you said.

 

But, did you Charge the New Battery ??? As per the MFG instructions, with a

" real battery charger " not just the trickle charger.

 

Yessireebob! I charged the crap out of that new battery with my "full-power", 4 Amp regular charger. It was reading close to 13 Volts before I fired up Bertha........and I made a point of riding for no less than half an hour (with no radio turned on) on my first three or four times out on the road. (I KNOW those short milk runs are death on batteries!)

 

One month later, things still seem fine. I think it's my Winter battery regimen that will have to be reviewed and OBEYED!!

 

Later,

Michael