Too many accidents

[Venturous Randy]

I work 2nd shift and while at work this evening, I was looking at some e-mails and run across one that was sent to me by Sherry(Ladyrider). It was dated July of last year. In it she commented about hoping to take two weeks and ride with her husband TomE. She talked of how much she enjoyed riding. As most of you know, Tom was killed on her bike after this. I could not delete this e-mail.

Like many of you, I rode as a teenager and then a little over 12 years ago picked up a bike. My wife Laura and I enjoyed it and then found the 83 Venture. In the time we have had the 850 and then the Venture, we have put about 95,000 miles on them. We have had some close calls that could have been deadly and like the one I posted about last weekend in Gatlinburg, TN, that one could have got us hurt.

My biggest fear, and I do think about it often, is in hurting Laura. I know that as we have gotten older, that it may not take as much to hurt us or even kill us. I also know that there are more distracted drivers out there than ever before that are doing everything but driving and this scares me to death. But, like many of you, being a motorcycle rider is part of who I am. Many people at work identify me by seeing me on my bike and talk to me about riding, even if they have never owned a bike in their life. I, too, have had some serious thoughts about when will I be able to get off the bike and say it was fun, but the time has come to quit.

My heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to Gary and Leslie and to their family.

RandyA

[BigShell]

My question is...Are we moving our "date" on the calendar up by taking the risk of riding a motorcycle.

 

I don't think so. I've seen too many die doing the 'safe' thing and others survive when they made an 'unsafe' move.

 

A man just two hooches down from me was on his last duty night before returning to the world. Sarge told him to take the night off. No sense taking chances this close to boarding the freedom bird. His room took a direct hit from a rocket that night and he died. He took the 'safe' road... but it didn't matter.

 

A good friend in the hooch next door was always playing it safe. Bed up on blocks so he could get under it easier. Surrounded on three sides by sand bags. At the first warning of rockets, he had on helmet, flac vest, and was under the bed until the all clear. One night he was just too tied to move. Rockets starting walking their way toward us. He thought "Screw it! I'm too tired. Let them come." One came through the wall and exploded under the floor right under his bed. His bedding absorbed a lot of the energy. He was pretty bruised and beat up, but if he had been under the bed as usual, he would have been dead. He took a chance with the 'unsafe' move and it saved him.

 

I learned that life ain't fair and doesn't play by our rules. I'll do what I want to do... and when I don't want to do it any more, I'll stop. When God decides He wants me closer to Him, I'm ready. I hope he isn't in a hurry though! The grandkids are just too much fun!

[Guest KitCarson]

Today I saw a friend I haven't seen for about a month and she asked me if I've been practicing my motorcycle riding skills. Lone Eagle asked me the same question last week. For those that don't know I took the beginner MSF class in May (about a week and a half after we lost TomE). TomE and his wife Sherry were on my mind during the class. I was scared but went on. All summer we've heard about these accidents...It has me scared , real scared! So like I told Lone Eagle and my friend I haven't practiced very much because of this fear. I too believe when it's your time to go it's your time to go. My question is...Are we moving our "date" on the calendar up by taking the risk of riding a motorcycle.

 

I guess I will have to decide that by next Spring.

Hi Princess: Hey I am not picking on you.....this post is for everyone......just picked you because I would rather talk to a girl......no one has ever accused me of being bashful.........

 

Motorcycles are dangerous......I will not dispute that one....and when someone you may have joked with, or know is killed on one of these machines......yes it is a shock. It brings us in contact with the fact we are mortal, gee this might happen to me. I learned about this in Vietnam, I could play a joke on a buddy and next day he would be down......yes I was scared to death many times......I get scared when I hear or see of someone going down on a bike....for a little bit.......but fear and respect of anything somewhat dangerous is very healthy. You learn to be respectful and concerned, to be scared for a bit.......but to not live in fear. Life is not much fun if you live in fear.........and things get out of context with motorcycles a lot...everyone it seems is against them.....do not understand them or us riders......are always telling us how dangerous they are......so you combine that with a recent accident....yes it makes one think.

Actually if you take these things in a health manner and say......okay, I will simply learn to avoid this......I will practice.......I will learn all I can, I will go take three safety courses.........I will train myself to be respectful of this machine and I will just every time I get on it take a second and say...Kit you love this machine.....it can kill you.......do not act stupid.....stay alert......I want to do this again tomorrow....you will be fine.

 

I used to be pretty bad on a bike........long ago......I had lots of spectacular accidents.......and one funny one.....the woman on the Chespeake Bay Bridge in Virginia for whatever reason just stopped her car in the middle of the road and stuck a camera out the window and took a photo.........no I was not paying attention......this was on the metal draw bridge grating also.......I looked up and saw a stopped bumper about 10 feet in front of me.....uh oh.......gee!! Traffic was slow across the bridge, I was able to swerve, but not quite far enough......I bounced off the drivers side of the car the whole length of it.........camera landed in my lap.....perfectly ........I walked back to her and said Maam: Here is your camera!!

 

Since those days......I have gained some sense.........every time I get on a bike.....I take a second to be serious.......to think...I have trained myself to be observant of everything........yes one day I will not be.....ever sit at a double stop light and the far one turns green and you take off...yours is still red? I have........stuff like this fools the mind sometimes.

 

 

I had a friend.......he had a harmless job or one would think so. He worked at the VA hospital in Columbia.....fixed lawnmowers......this and that.......a small engine mechanic.......harmless........one day he died on the job.......was crushed under a cargo lift ......evidently was trying to change an hydraulic cylinder. My father died somewhat young......had a brain tumor. My wife at the age of 43 could have died......had a blockage in her heart....open heart surgery and double by-pass......lying there all those tubes and life support. I could go on and on........but the point is you cannot live in fear.

 

Since my stupid days.......I have had a motorcycle constantly.......all kinds of them.......I am now 53......that is like 30 years and I have not had an accident, just by being respectful.....training myself to be observant and doing the speed limit.....the worst thing I have done is turn my Harley over in the drive way!! First day I had my new Venture I almost did that...that little wire hook on the side stand got caught up in my pants leg.......my foot did not want to hit the ground!!

 

So be respectful of these machines.......but there are no sure things in life....no need to walk away from something you enjoy.....people die everyday from this or that......that is just part of life....death is part of living.........just about everyday.......on the news.......in anyones local area. Someone going to work.......in a car.....dies that day........

 

So fear is a health thing.......just do not let it overcome you.

 

Kit

[Lone Eagle]

Fear, freedom, happiness, concentration, awareness; those are words I think about each time I get on my bike. I have always feared my bike - it is top heavy, people may not see me, there might be that rut in the road, etc etc etc. The ability to see new places, meet different people and the joy I get from that out weigh my fear. Concentrating and awareness to everything around me - I find that I always have to work diligently on that - getting out in the open I find myself sometimes "taking in the view" versus paying attention.

 

Where I live (and would imagine this is true for most areas), people drive like they are driving a vehicle that has been set up for Nascar. But they are not professionals - they are talking on the cell phone, reading their work/paper, drinking coffee (whatever) and other stuff, all at 80+ miles an hour - swerving in and out of traffic. That is one reason why I don't always take my bike to work - I try and "limit" my chances of being involved in tricky situations. But I know I may not avoid them all. Like others have said, I too slow down on roads and curves I don't know, as I just want to have fun. Working in San Francisco - it is more dangerous to cross the street with the green walk sign, than it is to drive.

 

The point for me is I have to know myself and be aware. As has been said here, this site has brought together an incredible family - I belong to 3 other clubs - and can genuinely say that none of them compare to this site/ members as far as caring for each other, sharing the good and bad times. Scott, I know the moment is tough, and questionable. It was for me yesterday - and still is today. BUT, this weekend I will be back on my back, because I love the freedom and joy I get from riding - and sometimes sharing those rides with my wife who surprisingly loves riding (maybe slightly more than I do). I will, however, continue to, even more, remind myself to be aware and concentrate.

[E-Fishin-C]

When you hear about these accidents anybody with any since is going to question them selves and assess there tolerance for the risks they take. That decision is an individual's decision and it can't be made by any one else. Your feelings will moderate over time and you will make your final decision. I have quit riding before after a near miss on a goldwing I had 2 small children and 1 on the way and I decided my responsibility was to my family and sold the bike. I went 12 years without a street bike before I started riding again. I take my life into my own hands every day and I have decided to live life on my terms I refuse to fear life so I can arrive safely at death. You will have to make your own decision and live with it but keep in mind life in a bubble is not living. Ask yourself which you regret more the things you have done or the things you could have done but didn't.

 

 

Well Said..... Redneck

[Eugene]

Some excellent points here.

 

Each person has to make their own decisions. Myself, 4 years ago my wife was diagnosed with cancer and passed away 3 months later. The main consolation for me has been that we did everything we wanted to do - we had horses, bikes, cars etc etc etc. Used them all, with care of course but refused to let the fear of doing something interfere with our enjoyment. We knew our risks - took them - and led a full life on our terms. I vividly remember how long it me to get over my fear of horses but I did and had some great times riding in all seasons.

 

Now - I can at least look back and feel really good that we did what we did and how we did it. As other people have said - we cannot possibly know when our time has come and as long as the enjoyment surpasses the fear and we do things in as careful a way as we can - I say - go for it!!!

 

Eugene

[Ky. Rider]

It does make me wonder if I have done the right thing by getting back into motorcycling. My wife and I are just retired and plan on enjoying our later years as long as we can. Hearing accidents like the one involving Gary and Leslie not only makes my heart ache for them and their family but has me wondering if I am doing the right thing subjecting myself and my wife to those hazards. I do agree to a point that we have an appointed time to pass on but according to Ecclesiastes 9:11 time and chance can also cause the unpredictable. That keeps us from blaming God for accidents or health issues. My question is, as much as we enjoy riding, am I increasing the time and chance too much. I also agree with the above post that we hear about these accidents via the internet these days where we would not have a few years ago. That causes more grief and uncertainity. My heartfelt prayers go out to Gary and his two sons and families.

[hipshot]

i never owned a "big bike", until about 2 years ago.

i haven't started it in over 4 months.

i LOVE tinkering with it,but i ain't crazy about riding it. i guess when i get all the bugs worked out , things will be different.

am i scared of it?

DAMN RIGHT , i am.

not so afraid of hurting myself, as i am of crashing it , again, and having to repair All those &$##%$^ tabs again!

my dad always told me, "as long as you are afraid of a bike , you can ride it."

"when you lose that fear, it will ride you"!

sometimes, bad things happen to really good people.

just jt

[cmiles3]

Well I guess I have some thinking to do. Especially this year we have had so many accidents and lost so many that my will to ride has been kind ot shot right now.

 

After my accident on my '84 in 2003, I needed time to heal. Once the healing was done, I thought about riding again. Amy encouraged me getting another bike, so I started looking. Had some doubts, some questions about my nerves & skills, but all that went away quickly when I bought my '87. I'm not as strong, nor as fit as I once was, but it's enough, for now. I can see sometime I won't be able to ride the Venture, but that's a long time from now.

 

Emotional healing is what you need right now. Sounds like you're doing it the right way. One day, maybe soon, you'll look at your bike and you'll know what you need to do. I like to think of it as God's way of speaking to us, but that's giving me too much credit in His sight.

 

Jebbles has spoken a few times of wanting to find a 1960s Mustang to restore or just get one ready to ride. Really been on my mind. Besides Ive been filling the time that I used to ride with fishing and playing with my 21" Mako.

 

Playing with cars is fun. You'll never regret the hours in the garage with family and friends. If it feels like the right thing to do, get it done. Fishing a great hobby. Boats are almost as dangerous as bikes, though.

 

Makes me wonder how long before its me. With all the unlicensed Illegals and people who are in so much of hurry they just dont care how long before its mu turn? I live in an area that once was a small farm area and now every weekend we get the Cityiots (N Y City idiots) come out here to practice driving and I alone have had may close calls this summer alone.

 

I live near the end of the deadliest 5 miles of highway in the state. 4 fatal motorcycle accidents within 2 miles of home in the last 5 years. Even lost a scooterist on the county road I use to avoid all the traffic on the highway. Now they've started rebuilding it, adding lanes; talk about accident city. Saw a Wing in the ditch the other day; getting towed out of the mud by a wrecker. I've had a lot of could-have-been accidents, but I was looking for them, and avoided them. Most of mine have been slow speed turns involving someone's unexpected action and my reaction; grabbing too much brake, or sand/gravel on the road.

 

The fact that you recognize the dangers is the beginning of avoiding the dangers. You need to be aware; you need to have a plan of escape; you need to have the skills to execute that escape. Those cityiots will get you in your cage almost as easily as on your scoot.

[Stanman]

I agree with what has been said about idiot drivers getting you be it in a cage or on a bike. Park the bike for the winter and see how you feel in the spring. Good luck and may GOD bless you.

 

[Lone Eagle]

From JT - "My dad always told me, "as long as you are afraid of a bike , you can ride it."

"when you lose that fear, it will ride you"!

 

From cmiles3: The fact that you recognize the dangers is the beginning of avoiding the dangers. You need to be aware; you need to have a plan of escape; you need to have the skills to execute that escape.

 

I thought these were two very good thoughts. I have always had tremendous respect - and fear - for my bikes and the surroundings. And after taking the MSF course before getting on my new bike last year, I became aware of how to look for - or anticipate - possible dangers at any given time. Things will always crop up - be it on a m/c, in a boat, vehicle, walking across the street, screwing in a light bulb (at least in my case). But, for me anyway, I just take things as they are dealt to me, and try not to worry or dwell on it. Sure have enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on this subject.

[Orrin]

The accident with Gary and Leslie, Tartan's thoughts, and my own accident have affected me deeply. My heart goes out to Gary, because of personal experience I know what kind of gut wrenching grief he will be feeling. All of this has raised doubts in mind as to risk of riding. I want to continue to ride and am planning on it, but there will be a lot of doubt when it comes time to get back on the bike. I hope I am up to it.

[Guest KitCarson]

The accident with Gary and Leslie, Tartan's thoughts, and my own accident have affected me deeply. My heart goes out to Gary, because of personal experience I know what kind of gut wrenching grief he will be feeling. All of this has raised doubts in mind as to risk of riding. I want to continue to ride and am planning on it, but there will be a lot of doubt when it comes time to get back on the bike. I hope I am up to it.

Hi Ya..Orrin:

 

Well you should know by now I am liable to say just about anything....but you will never lose your joy of riding. I fully understand everyones feelings.....I have had them myself from time to time. But I just daily........and every time I get on one.......take it easy.......be careful......train, train, train myself to be observant.......really you have plenty of time to do this.....the bike is for fun not to get somewhere at any specific time or to be in a hurry. I know.........we all have those moments when we do not pay as much attention as we should......just have to work on it......because it is of my opinion you have to become a professional defensive driver.....top notch......work on it all the time.

 

As for fear....dying........shoot......something is going to get me one day.....I would rather die doing this than get sick and die that way......I always joke and say I want to get to age 70 and then maybe someone will just shoot me.......I am a little serious about that........this life is not the end.....it is like a butterfly......we are in the cocoon stage......

 

 

I have worked all morning......hard.....trying to get loose.......just got a call with a busted water line under a concrete slab......told them I will see you monday........I want to play........but.but.......well if it blows out....you can borrow my boat!!! We is going for a ride........going to go enjoy life for a lazy afternoon...........Just concentrate on becoming observant......tis fine to be apprehensive and concerned......but not to let it make you live in fear. Take Care....Kit:thumbsup:

[WilCruise]

Hey Scotty,

Tough thing to consider. I think most of the points I'd make have been mentioned already. I'd hate to think that you'd kick the habit before we had a chance to ride together!

 

If you do get to the point that your heart's not in it I wouldn't fault you for taking time off. Like Redneck, when I gave it up quite a while back it was at a time when I saw some tough things happen to other riders and had a few close calls myself. That plus the family thing were enough for me to take almost 2 decades off. When I got back the first thing I did was to arm myself with lots of training to minimize risk. That has made me feel much more confident that I can address the majority of situations I'm likely to face. My advice would be to keep one bike around for a bit while you ponder this. You'd likely do better selling in the spring anyway.

 

Regardless of the choice you make I hope you know that we would all like you to stick around here!

 

Good luck Buddy!

[Aimhigh]

Folks, the tragedy that happened to our friends ruins all of our moods, to be sure. But, we cannot live in a bubble. Life is too precious to waste a minute of it. It's kind of like the terroist situation today. If we bow to the threat of being hurt by continuing our lives, they win. Yes, someday all our times will come, until then just be thankful that we have been lucky to know our friends and live our lives to the fullest.

[Yammer Dan]

Hunting thru old stuff tonight and found this one. Don't know how I missed it. Work got in my way a lot last few months. I still have mixed feelings about riding after my incident. But only got to ride couple times last year. One good ride with 750 and one on "parts Bike" Just thinking back to those make me want to get busy on the Bike.Blasted work keeps getting in the way. Any Way thought this was great reading in middle of the night and I still worry about getting back on but know I'm going to.Maybe slow down a little but speed had nothing to do with my accident. Only way I could have missed was not being there.

[funrider]

hay, I understand. I had a bad accident quite a number of years back, went through a number a surgeries and said I would never ride again, but it is like the wind, it just keeps calling me. After a number of years, I had to get back up and ride, seems I can't get along without the wind blowing in my face. There is a feel to being on a bike that you can't get anywhere else and it just keeps calling. I have lost a good friend in a bike accident also but the feel of the road and two wheels is something that you just can't shake. Don't fear life, live it.

[cliffno350]

I have a little different issue that I have thought about riding, I had missed this thread months ago. As most of you know my son has become paralyzed from chest down not from a motorcycle accident but from some bizarre illness I never heard of, Transverse Myelitis. I taught him to ride when he was 7 or 8 and he took to it like a duck to water, has loved riding ever since, we spent many hours on the dirt bikes every chance we got mom went some and had her own dirt bike. he got old enough to get a street bike lenience (13 in NM) and he took the required course at the college and scored the highest in his class and was the youngest (riding and paper). I have taught him play on the dirt bike and be responsible on the street he was, I had been told countless times "I saw Kenneth on his street bike yesterday what a good driver he is, came to complete stop and obeys the laws". This made me very proud of him I was a bit worried putting him on the street but felt confident in his respect for the bike, he told me more than once the asphalt is a lot harder than dirt and crashing on dirt is bad enough, I didn't want him to get a crotch rocket for his first street bike and be stupid and inexperienced. OK getting long winded sorry my point is Kenneth was my riding buddy, my wife enjoyed riding with us but I am not sure if he wants to ride anymore. We fixed a trike with hand controls for him he doesn't care about it, I ask him about it and he says he wants to ride but its not the same. I don't enjoy riding as much it seems like I should be doing something to fix my son and I cant. He has some hope as do I and his mom but seems like everyday goes by without any improvement is another blow to the heart for me. He goes back to Johns Hopkins next week and we paid for a month with a new machine that they say will help and work wonders but is hard to hope too much. Any how I too am considering getting rid of the bikes.....

[Gary N.]

Dan,

Thanks for floating this one back to the top. I thought I had read all the posts relating to our accident but I somehow managed to miss this one.

I have a lot of feelings regarding this issue. Leslie and I loved to ride together and we put a lot of miles on as a team. One of my greatest pleasures in life the last few years was riding and even more so since Leslie enjoyed it too. She was way more afraid when we were driving the space shuttle (RV) in the mountains in CO last summer than she ever was on the bike. I always smile when I think of her getting up and going back in the coach and sitting on the opposite side so she wouldn't have to look out over the edge of the road and see nothing. I really teased her about that. She always did have a fear of heights. Couldn't get higher than the first step on a ladder.

While I was in the hospital in Ohio and right after I learned of Leslies' death I didn't care if I lived or died and I didn't even think about getting another bike. As time went by I gradually came to the conclusion that we only get one kick at the can and if riding a bike is what makes you happy than ride a bike.

I have no memory of our accident and maybe that's why I'm so eager to get back in the saddle. If I could remember all the details I might feel differently.

I've bought an '06 RSV and I'm hoping that I'll be able to ride it. Physically I don't think it's going to be a problem. I may not be able to ride very far for a while but I'm getting stronger all the time so I hope I'll get back to where I was.

In closing I would just like to say once again, thank you to everyone for thinking about us and for your prayers and good wishes. But please don't let what happened to us keep you off your bikes. I don't know the statistics but I'll bet if we did, none of us would want to ride. You have to do what's right for you. Don't let someone else's accident affect you. I have a better reason than most not to ride again but I'm not going to let it stop me. If I die riding than I die happy.

[kenw]

My post is to follow your dreams. I have a pilots license, have driven motorcycles and cars for over 45 years. Ten years ago I lost my teenage son to a doctors screwup and his history of storing telling. The one yhing we have learned from all this is to follow your dreams, the rest will fall in!! Its much better to do than to sit there later and say I should have have!!!

 

Kenw

[cmiles3]

Way to go Gary. Someone told me once, no one gets out of this world alive.

 

Says me, sitting in Iraq- rocket hit near here night before last. Not too close, but if you can hear it...

 

My '87 Venture is beginning to sound safe enough.

[Snarley Bill]

i think about the big crash every time i ride, but bikes are in my blood. as long as my thinking is good and i can physically ride i will have a bike. i have had many crashes in my 50 years of riding. luckily they were not major ones. had many close calls that could have been fatal, but i can't stop doing the thing i love most , so i'm not going to worry about it. when the main man wants me i'm here for the taking and ready to go. bill:2133:

[Tom]

Gary ,I am glad you are getting stronger..You hit the nail on the head,you and Bruce and a few others know about Debby and we had that long talk and basically She told me EXACTLY what you stated in your post.Ive ridden with you several times and enjoyed them all,We WILL RIDE AGAIN!! Debby included! We have shared several memories and without a doubt I am looking forward to more.Take care my friend!Tom

[Tartan Terror]

Wow this thread came back from the archieves! I just figured I would jump back in. I find it amazing that guys like Yammer and Gary can jump back on. If they can how can I park mine. Ive only ridden mine twice in the last 6 months but I stood in the garage and had a little talk with her a few weeks ago and its time to get her ready. Charging the battery and a little cleaning and I will be ready. Has to be for my buddies Motorcycle wedding on Apr 15th. You never know when its you time but you cant live in fear. If you do you dont live. Ill be back riding with you in a few short weeks when the weather gets nicer and the St Patricks season is over with the pipe band.

[Snarley Bill]

Wow this thread came back from the archieves! I just figured I would jump back in. I find it amazing that guys like Yammer and Gary can jump back on. If they can how can I park mine. Ive only ridden mine twice in the last 6 months but I stood in the garage and had a little talk with her a few weeks ago and its time to get her ready. Charging the battery and a little cleaning and I will be ready. Has to be for my buddies Motorcycle wedding on Apr 15th. You never know when its you time but you cant live in fear. If you do you dont live. Ill be back riding with you in a few short weeks when the weather gets nicer and the St Patricks season is over with the pipe band.

glad to hear that scott , thought we was going to lose ya for awhile. glad your back. bill