Rear wheel locks up

[Denden]

A few years ago I owned a 1993 Yamaha FJ1200ABS. The FJ1200 was made from about 1985 until 1993. In it's early years it was considered a "sport bike". Improvements over the years turned it into more of a "sports/tourer". In 1992, yamaha made the ABS braking system optional...in 1993 it was STANDARD EQUIPMENT. And I can tell you first hand that the ABS system worked great. Independent ABS, front and rear. Not linked, standard hand brake/front wheel and foot brake rear wheel. I tested the rear wheel for lock-up just about every time I rode it (it was recommended to keep it functioning). But once, I tested the front wheel for lockup by riding off the road onto a sand and gravel shoulder and grabbing the front brake as hard as I could (at about 25mph). It worked. I have to say, I was very scared to try this, and was very geared-up for a fall. But there was nothing to it, just a smooth controlled stop, on sand and gravel, using only the front brake!

My point is this...1993, great ABS brakes that worked very well. Here we are trying to re-engineer Yamaha's top of the line, most expensive motorcycle that they make! WHY IS THIS? Why would Yamaha stop offering this great braking system? To my knowledge, 1993 was the last year of the FJ1200, but the same ABS system was also standard equipment on the 1994 GTS1000 or GTS 1200. AND HASN'T BEEN MADE SINCE. WHY?

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Oops, forgot about the excellent ABS system currently available on the FJR1300. But my point is the same, why not put that system on the RSV? Maybe if there was enough customer DEMAND (capital letters....loud voice)...we are over 3000 members, now THAT is a loud voice.

[Guest KitCarson]

A few years ago I owned a 1993 Yamaha FJ1200ABS. The FJ1200 was made from about 1985 until 1993. In it's early years it was considered a "sport bike". Improvements over the years turned it into more of a "sports/tourer". In 1992, yamaha made the ABS braking system optional...in 1993 it was STANDARD EQUIPMENT. And I can tell you first hand that the ABS system worked great. Independent ABS, front and rear. Not linked, standard hand brake/front wheel and foot brake rear wheel. I tested the rear wheel for lock-up just about every time I rode it (it was recommended to keep it functioning). But once, I tested the front wheel for lockup by riding off the road onto a sand and gravel shoulder and grabbing the front brake as hard as I could (at about 25mph). It worked. I have to say, I was very scared to try this, and was very geared-up for a fall. But there was nothing to it, just a smooth controlled stop, on sand and gravel, using only the front brake!

My point is this...1993, great ABS brakes that worked very well. Here we are trying to re-engineer Yamaha's top of the line, most expensive motorcycle that they make! WHY IS THIS? Why would Yamaha stop offering this great braking system? To my knowledge, 1993 was the last year of the FJ1200, but the same ABS system was also standard equipment on the 1994 GTS1000 or GTS 1200. AND HASN'T BEEN MADE SINCE. WHY?

 

Hi Denden: Are we related? . I agree wholeheartedly!! I do love the Classic styling of the Venture though....so that is why I put up with skyscraper Windshields........antique brakes, and crickets sitting on top of the carbs. I would be terrified of that gadget everyone is looking at...if it grabs and lets off and grabs again........on its own.......like in your sand ride.(I hate sand..whew.....bad news to a bike!!) but if that contraption does not provide a smooth control and you did get in sand.........especially on a front brake.....well........like the fellow in Jaws.....starts singing that song!! A locked up front brake with standard brakes to me.....would be better as all you have to do is let off them.......to rely on this gadget on the front.....I have a lot of concerns about that. Well enough of that.

 

I test rode the BMW touring machine before I got the venture....I went all the way up to Greenville.....to do so. I am not a normal test rider......I do not just ride it around the parking lot......I took it for an hour spin. The brakes on it work flawlessly.......I never tried it in sand........if I see sand......I am going the other direction:rotf:. But just to pull into a church parking lot......come to a stop.....put it up to about 35 and grab the brakes........fist time tentatively......next time hey,,,,,,look at this.....they stop you totally without slipping a wheel. The BMW has some great brakes.....just looks like a spaceship.

 

Just stopping to say Hi........Take Care Kit

[Orrin]

Dennis, it seams that Yamaha is going backwards on the technology they are offering on their bike brake systems. Harley Davidson on the other hand is moving forward. Rick Butler has done a huge amount of work and research on this subject is the most knowledgeable person I have met reguarding brakes on the R S V and the R S T D. Most of us seam satisfied with the operation of the front brakes, but I for one and some others as I have found out have difficulty in modulating the rear brake in emergency situations. I have learned a great deal about the brakes on our bikes from this thread and the conversation I had with Rick Butler.

 

Rick has developed an adjustable proportioning valve that is effective. I had been looking around for linked brakes when I learned about Rick's mod and shortly thereafter learned about the Lifesaver valve. I have made a decision to try out the later. I have no idea as to which is better. When I have it installed and get a chance ride the bike I will report back as to what my experience has been. In that way I hope to make a small contribution to our body of knowledge reguarding these brakes. I am not recommending the Lifesaver, I am only reporting what I have been doing.

 

As far as I can tell, Harley Davidson will be pushing Yamaha and others to upgrade their braking systems. If Yamaha were to introduce A B S to the Royal Star line I would trade up immediately. My Harley dealer says he is getting a lot of new business because of the A B S option on their touring bikes. I have even been thinking about it myself, but I really like my bike!

[Guest Zachtcb]

I see that there are a few that claim they are haveing lock up problems. This hydraulic brake control valve works wonderfully. I have one on the front of my sportster. We are just finishing the new video up and reconstucting our web site.

[Brake Pad]

the 2007 Venture models love to skid through intersections

[Guest Zachtcb]

I actually recommended our green for the rear. The reason for that is all the weight is tranfered to the front end which will intail the rear wanting to come off the ground. So we will maximize wheel slip in the rear. I recommend orange for the front to start.

[Orrin]

Zach, Welcome to the group. I must have heard you wrong. Sorry my bad, will get it right the next time. Hope to meet you before the new year, will be driving the cage up to Minneapolis to see my kids and grandson.

 

Welcome aboard.

[Guest Zachtcb]

That sounds like a plan. Are you on this site alot?

[Orrin]

Zach, sent you Private Mssg. Check your in box

[KiteSquid]

Personally I will not be installing this type of product on any of my motorcycles.

 

Instead, I will LEARN how to properly use the brakes on my motorcycles in a controlled area.

[Orrin]

Harold, I agree that practicing emergency stops in a protected area is good and I plan to do some more practice after I heal up. What I have found out is that the rear brake on the RSTD's is way more brake than you need to lock up the rear wheel. I have put new pads on and I could not detect a difference. There fore this is something I want to try. I will review it after I get it installed.

[Guest Zachtcb]

Its not always a controled eviornment when you are riding. It is the 16 yr kid that just got his lisence you have to watch out for. I understand what you are saying. If we can save 5%to10% of injurys or death. Than I think we will be doing well. Proven fact-63% of all motorcycle crash are do to over braking.

That is some uneducated people on how to use their brakes proplerly.

[Bvinson]

I just finished a call with Zack at Lifesaver. Great people. He is the owner and explained to me how it works. He assured me that if you stay on the brake you will get maximum brake force. I did order one for the rear. He matched the best price I could find on line which was $61.99 from Competition Accessories.

 

Zack,

 

Will you honor the 61.99 for people on the forum?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[Guest Zachtcb]

Yes I will honor the price of 61.99 plus shipping and handling for members.

 

Regards Zach

[Freebird]

You guys are just barely ahead of me. I had exchanged emails with Zach earlier today and he had agreed to honor that price through the winter..up until April I think. I told him that I would add him as a Vendor who offers us discounts later this evening. That is a very good deal for anybody wanting to improve their braking, which these bikes DO need.

[Guest Zachtcb]

Yes through april. The retail price is $99.99. I have one on the front of my sportster and I love it. After I got use adjusted to the part I was able to cut my stopping distance my about 44%. The shocks take a majority of the weight that is transfered to the front end. Your body also stays planted. I am getting my video finalized and I will put it online here.

 

 

Regards Zach

[Guest Zachtcb]

I forgot to mention. Your brake pads last three times as long when this part is used.

 

 

 

Regards Zach

[Guest longtrain59]

To all you RSV riders that think you can control an 850 pound RSV in a panic stop...I hope you never have to.

 

I was the first to bring the rear brake problem to Rick Butler's attention.

 

In the year 2000, I was on I-635, a loop around Dallas, about 1:am in the morning. A flat bed, 18 wheeler driver, went to sleep and wrecked with another driver and I had to brake and swerve to miss parts coming off the trucks into the road way. Finally, the flat bed had blown a front tire and when he locked up his brakes, he slid across the four lanes in front of me, cutting off any way of escape. My youngest son was riding with me and at that time he was about 160 pounds. I locked the rear brake and with the weight over the rear wheel and pumping the front brake I was able to stop the bike and slid down in the center median which was sand and grass. I had about 10 feet to spare. The rear tire slid straight as an arrow with the weight over the back wheel and did not low side until I hit the sand in the medium. Good out come; no injury and about $2,000.00 in damage to the bike.

 

Now in 2001 I wasn't so lucky. I was riding in NM with some guys in the MTA TX6 Chapter and had a situation where a rider in front of me locked down the binders on his bike. I was watching a dog sitting on the shoulder and when I looked up all I could see is brake lights. I hit the brakes an attempted to swerve to the right, when I did the rear brake locked and the bike low sided immediately. I was down so quick I did not have any reaction option. I ended up in the hospital in Las Cruses for a few days and a month later had 14 hours of plastic surgery to restore my face and repair a badly broken nose; I also had to get some new front teeth.

 

Two years later Rick Butler had to make a similar panic stop in, no other than, NM; and his rear wheel locked up and he immediately low sided causing him and Linda some injuries.

 

At the Texas Gathering in 2002, a friend was attending from California. He took a corner a little to fast, moved into the oncoming lane and when a car filled that lane a attempted panic stop caused the bike to low side and slide into the on coming car. Rocky was dead at the sceene.

 

The point is that in a one up panic stop that 4-piston rear brake caliper will lock up that back wheel. When that happens the bike will low side to the right before you can react. If you try to practice that kind of stop, you most likely will go down.

 

My bike was the Guinea Pig for Rick's rear brake adjustable proportioning valve. I feel safer with conversion and I use my front brake for all stops except coming to a full stop at a light or stop sign. I haven't had another panic stop since Rick made the conversion.

 

We just don't know what we will do or what the bike will do in that instant of panic.

 

I have taken the MSF safety course three times and plan to take it as often as I can. However, when there is a poor design in a bikes braking system, that is hard to overcome in a panic situation.

 

Best regards all,

[Guest KitCarson]

Harold, I agree that practicing emergency stops in a protected area is good and I plan to do some more practice after I heal up. What I have found out is that the rear brake on the RSTD's is way more brake than you need to lock up the rear wheel. I have put new pads on and I could not detect a difference. There fore this is something I want to try. I will review it after I get it installed.

Way to go Orrin....you hung in there, even though we teased you. Now the pros are having their say........I have noticed just as LongTrain has said....not just the Venture or RSTD, but all big bikes with standard brakes handle just like he has stated....two up.......that rear wheel locks straight......one up......it is like a squirrel.......I want one!! Soon as you get it , please let us know....how we install it.......do we need a bracket.......have to rethread something.....all those things.......or get that fellow who makes them to post all that on this site. I went on a crusade for the modulator......I felt in my heart is was a very needed safety item......somehow I managed to somewhat temper my feelings and behave........now we can have this on the rear brake also.........a few more percentage points......anything we can do to help ourselves .....well it is only common sense. The front brake to me is not a real concern.....you can pump it.....it if locked will slide straight anyway......but that rear brake.......in a real life situation......with addrenalin and fear in your throat........yes all of us hit the brake way too hard......it is human instinct.........you can practice all you want in an empty parking lot.......it helps.......but in real life........in a real emergency, most of us simply do not have the control needed to think and pump the rear brake....we just hit it......... Yep I want one.........hurry up and let us know........Kit:thumbsup:

[Neil86]

Proven fact-63% of all motorcycle crash are do to over braking.

 

I would disagree Zach....most never use their front brakes to maximum potential.

[Guest Zachtcb]

With this new part. Stopping on my front brakes is amazing. The best thing about it is I very seldom use my rear brake because the front brakes work better than you can imagine. The initial grab without the part is what is scary. I stopped my harley sportester form about 60mph in about 20feet using only the front brakes. It sound unbelieveable I know. People ask me how I stay on the bike? The shocks absorb majority of the weight intead of the ground. Please ask all the questions you can.

 

 

Regards Zach

[Guest KitCarson]

Yes I will honor the price of 61.99 plus shipping and handling for members.

 

Regards Zach

Hey for the venture......2nd Gen.......what do you recommend for the rear brake ........what color.....what is your phone number and who is the contact person when we call? Kit

[Snarley Bill]

rear brakes on bikes are dangerous.no matter how good a rider you may think you are in a life or death situation you will lock up the rear wheel.out of panic, if the brakes are to sensitive.here is a bit of information.sport bikes have almost no rear braking power.the rear brake is for trail braking only in curves.even the pro riders have rear brake control problems.alot of the moto gp riders get out of the habit of using the rear brake at all except for trail braking in curves.my r-6 and zx 14 have next to no rear brakes at all.you could not begin to stop with them.90% of your stopping power is with the front brakes,because of the weight transfer to the front wheel under hard braking.

[Neil86]

I stopped my harley sportester form about 60mph in about 20feet using only the front brakes. It sound unbelieveable I know.

Regards Zach

 

you're right about that.

[Orrin]

Zach, looks like one of the other guys will get one of your Lifesaver before Iget mine installed and tested. I hope so. This product I think will do well with our group. Thanks for honoring the price. That is very stand up!