Rear wheel locks up

[Orrin]

How many of find that it is way too easy to lock up the rear wheel on the newer Royal Stars with the four piston caliper, especially in an emergency stop?

 

I know that now when I think about it is way easier than any other bike I have owned, not scientific but seams that way.

[Freebird]

You already know that I agree. WAY too sensitive.

[Orrin]

Don I had a nice talk with Rick this evening and that is what prompted me to start this thread. Should be interesting, even though it is what we have come to learn.

[cowpuc]

Personally I REALLLLLLY like where modern day braking has taken us.. Indeed, they have become precision equipment - wayyyyyy more capible of controling your bike and saving your life then brakes of yesteryear.. Play in parking lot a little and try to feel your brakes,, try applying them like your adjusting a micrometer.. Brake with your index finger and your toe..

If that doesnt help, there are lots of different types of pad material in use today.. Some folks like Organic pads and others like steel impregnated.. That all will have a different feel to them.. Maybe play around a little with pad types and see if you can find one your more comfortable with?? I implore you to do take the time to figure it out.. You really should not be riding regularly with brakes you have doubts about - peace of mind is important when riding...

'Puc

[Eck]

http://www.lifesavertcb.com/home.html

[Orrin]

Eck, thank you very much for the link. Looks like it claims to do pretty much what Rick Butler's adjustable proportioning valve does.

 

You find out so much good information on this forum and it is conveyed without animosity, or people acting like jerks. What a great bunch we have here, I am proud to be a small part of it.

 

Will be interesting to hear if any of our members have tried this device.

Thanks

[KiteSquid]

I like the good rear brake on my RSV.

 

Please practice your emergency breaking in a safe area!!!!!!!

 

 

Take the MSF safety course, every riding season!!!!!

[Squeeze]

http://www.lifesavertcb.com/home.html

 

 

Hi, this Item is not bad Idea, but if you look in to how it works, i see in the Chart which relates applied Brake Pressure and Output Pressure that this Product actually reduces the absolute Power which can be applied on the Output.

 

Well, regarding having a fair overdose of breaking Power like the 2Gens have when riding alone, this does good and helps prevent locking.

 

But, in Case of 2-up riding, maybe also with a Trailer, this Part reduces the maximum Power which can be applied. That could NOT be the Goal.

[Orrin]

I just finished a call with Zack at Lifesaver. Great people. He is the owner and explained to me how it works. He assured me that if you stay on the brake you will get maximum brake force. I did order one for the rear. He matched the best price I could find on line which was $61.99 from Competition Accessories. I hope to be back on the bike in December and will post a review.

 

This may help the touchy rear bake I have. I don't ride two up except rarely and do not anticipate pulling a trailer.

[Eck]

But, in Case of 2-up riding, maybe also with a Trailer, this Part reduces the maximum Power which can be applied. That could NOT be the Goal.

 

Keep reading ...its adjustable for whatever desired pressure you want...

[Squeeze]

...I hope to be back on the bike in December and will post a review....

 

 

I'm really looking forward to this.

 

 

Eck, i'm in hurry right now, but as i understand the Function-Page, you have to buy one of those 4 listed Colours and this Presets the 'damping Value'. Maybe i overlooked something.

 

I will have a closer Look tonight when i'm back from the Meeting i have to go to .... my Time would better spent if i fall to Sleep. I Thing, do not even think about buying a Condo in Germany. It's the first Step to loose your Money and be the kicked One by almost anybody surrounding you in these Matters .... and, as the icing on the Cake, you have to bring in more Money others can spend on their Behalf ...

[Eck]

 

do not even think about buying a Condo in Germany.

 

 

I own a condo in Coco Beach Florida that I would have sold you a whole heck of a lot cheaper, and you would not have lost any money.

It's located right on the beach..186 feet from the water..You can see the rockets on the launch pads at Cape..

[CrazyHorse]

This is interesting. Has anyone tried one? I would like to dump my standard 1st gen propotioning valve would like to find something adjustable that works.

[Orrin]

Jimbob5, you might want to contact Rick Butler. He is a super nice guy and is very knowedgeable re:brakes.

[Freebird]

I have also contacted Lifesaver because I really don't see which one they would recommend for our bikes. They say that it varies by rider but which one would you even try? I don't know. The proportioning valve seems to do much the same thing but is adjustable. Maybe the lifesaver is better in that it seems to pulse the system though.

[Orrin]

when I talked to Zack, the owner of Lifesaver, he recommended the blue for the back because with the 4 piston caliper and the long brake pedal the we had way more than enough power to lock up the rear wheel. The blue one was recommended for the rear. Which is the most restrictive. I asked if I would still be able to locked up the rear and he thought I would be able to but that I would have to use considerably more force at the pedal that I use now.

 

Zack further recommened that I use the orange for the front which is the 2nd least restrictive.

 

He is also a rider and has his own Harley. i am just going to try the rear as I have been fairly happy with the front.

 

For those who are not familiar with Lifesaver here is the site:

http://www.lifesavertcb.com/home.html

 

I am not recommending this product, just reporting what i am doing and have found out.

[Guest KitCarson]

Hey square tires cause this problem also!! Might ought to check your tires......sorry could not resist the opportunity:rotfl::rotfl:

[Orrin]

Kit............

[CrazyHorse]

I have also contacted Lifesaver because I really don't see which one they would recommend for our bikes. They say that it varies by rider but which one would you even try? I don't know. The proportioning valve seems to do much the same thing but is adjustable. Maybe the lifesaver is better in that it seems to pulse the system though.

 

Freebird what proportioning valve do you use with Ricks set up? I delinked mine as you probably know but left the valve in to limit lock of the rear but I m not happy with it because I think I can get a little more stopping power with the rear and still avoid lock up. I m looking for somthing I can dial in hopefully.

[Eck]

I have also contacted Lifesaver because I really don't see which one they would recommend for our bikes.

 

 

Don,

Check out the "testimonial section"

http://www.lifesavertcb.com/home.html

 

 

 

I would say for our Ventures 1st or 2nd gen..;

orange in front calipers and

Blue in rear calipers...due to the weight of our bikes.

And dont forget if your two up and loaded up for a trip...any extra weight changes the pressure in actual brake responce..

 

Here is a "copy & paste" of the testimonial section from thier web site:

GREEN: Softest of four levels for max wheel slip. Light vehicles and mainly in the rear brake caliper.

 

RED: Next stiffer level allows less slip. Front or Rear in light to medium weight vehicles.

 

ORANGE: Stiffer. This unit allows a good high speed reaction for heavier vehicles. Front or Rear in medium or heavy vehicles.

 

BLUE: Stiffest of all four allowing least amount of wheel slip. Can be used on any vehicle.

 

Please visit Testimony page for additional information about different configurations for different types of vehicles such as 4 wheelers and other rides.

[Guest KitCarson]

I will behave and be serious this time........so........I assume the final goal for brake response would be to gain the control of the braking system, such as the ABS systems on the BMW Bikes.......on those you can stand up , with your weight on the pedal and pull on the front brake too.........they work......very well.

I am quite suspicious of this product.......I carefully read the test results and it seems to me.......the rear and front wheel is still sliding.......not at first, you get a softer feel....but as you apply more and more control pressure, yes it still locks up the wheel. So what do people tend to do in an emergency situation? They lock the wheel up........I might even do that........the adrenalin gets to pumping........I know enough from experience to let off before it get out of line too far and causes a side crash.....but lots of folks do not know about this........An ABS system is still a positive feel and does not have the soft explained feel this is explained to have........and if the wheel still locks up......what is the advantage of it...especially in a real emergency situation.......this is much different than tests on a track or in the local Church Parking lot....

 

I am just wondering is all.........I would like a more positive and sure brake system for the front of Cricket also.......maybe a couple sets of 8 cylinder calipers........more surface area...more control....easy to feather

Kinda suspicious of this gadget. Hope you all have good luck and figure it out.......I am still playing with the clutch basket thing.......once that is over...may start on the brake thing........I agree...the brakes are way too sensitive.....I think it is because of the small surface contact areas......

 

Take Care..........Kit

[Thom]

i think it is a presser relieve system and p-valve all in one . when you brake the presser gos off on off on according to the chart , the color adjust the the p-valve . i remember it was used in some simi-truck trailers before abs . it helped for jackknifes , when the brakes where jamed on very hard the tires would skid , roll , skid , roll , skid , it worked , kepped the trailer behind the truck , no jacknife , mite do the same for the back tire of a bike :detective:

[Freebird]

Freebird what proportioning valve do you use with Ricks set up? I delinked mine as you probably know but left the valve in to limit lock of the rear but I m not happy with it because I think I can get a little more stopping power with the rear and still avoid lock up. I m looking for somthing I can dial in hopefully.

 

I'm sorry but I really don't even know. It was sent to me by Rick Butler and I think there was an original invoice with it but didn't pay much attention. Shoot Rick and email or PM and he can tell you. I really like it though.

[Rick Butler]

Orrin,

 

This is a very interesting product and if it performs as they claim, I would certainly endorse it. It's certainly a less expensive solution than mine. Even though the valve is only $35 plus $6.50 shipping, I still needed a custom Galfer rear line plus another of their 10mm X 1.00 pitch adapter ($75) to make it work ($117 total). Then I needed to re-thread the valve to 10mm X 1.00 on both ends and test the fit of the adapters and banjo washers before I sent it on for installation (another $10 for my time and $6.00 or so for Priority Mail for a grand total of $133 or so).

 

But from my reading of the description, this product is nothing more than a fixed proportioning valve where they use a gas charge (nitrogen?) to apply the proportioning instead of a spring that the 1st gen unit uses. And if I could pick one up for $62 plus shipping it would be less than my solution and less work overall to install. However I would NOT ever consider using any proportioning on our front calipers, where with the stock 2-piston calipers you need everything they can provide. If you were ever to lock up a front wheel, it is not an issue where you just release the brake and you have no adverse consequence Unlike the rear wheel where you have to deal with the slide or a high side.

 

Oh, for those of you who wonder which valve I am using, it's sold by Speedway Motors and is used by out hotrod friends, who don't want rear wheel lockup any more than we do. And by the fact that it's adjustable you can change it to your riding conditions if you have the need:

 

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/1979,9_Compact-Adjustable-Proportioning-Valve.html

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rick

[GeorgeS]

I strongly reccomend that whatever bike you have and however your brakeing system works, that you Practice Panic Stops.

On a dry straight level road. Work up from about 30 mph to freeway speeds.

Every bike is different, Learn what you have, and what you can do with your brakes.

Each year, 2 or 3 times, I go out and practice panic stops.

I have two bikes, and they are very different when it comes to brakeing.

 

It happened to me this year in May. I was forced to do a complete Panic, lock up on my Suzuki Busa. Old lady ran a red light from my right. I went full lock up and left about 40 feet of rubber on the road. Stopped with in inches of hitting rear of her car.

 

I learned something that day. The Venture, would never have stopped in that short of a distance, even at 30 mph.

 

All I am saying here, is practice practice practice, and don't be afraid to use your brakes.

 

Remember!! your front brakes Are 80 percent of your total brakeing power !!! Don't be afraid to use them.