ABS mandatory?

[RedRaptor22]

So needless to say from my point of view I absolutely do not think manditory ABS will make a difference in crash statistics, however if they required all bikes to be optioned out sport touring bikes for the white collar crowd the ABS tag may make a difference.

 

 

I'd rather see manditory low cost new and advanced rider courses, manditory minimum safety gear, maybe a tiered liscense system.

 

Oh and lastly ALL drivers would have to at least have a motorcycle/trike liscense before they could operate a vehicle unless physically unable...so everyone would feel our pain and start looking out for us.

[hig4s]

So needless to say from my point of view I absolutely do not think manditory ABS will make a difference in crash statistics,

 

BMW's outrigger studies on ABS brakes was done with the same bikes using a wide cross section of riders from beginners to pro racers. There is where the proof comes from that pro racers can stop faster on clean dry pavement than ABS.. But it also showed that on slippery, wet, and changing traction situations, even pro racers stopped faster with the ABS, and non pros managed to stay on two wheels where without they did not. So it is not just about how fast you stop, but whether you come to a stop on two wheels or on you butt.

 

And we all know the fact is, once you are not on the rubber, stopping takes much longer.

Edited May 17, 2010 by hig4s

[Condor]

BMW's outrigger studies on ABS brakes was done with the same bikes using a wide cross section of riders from beginners to pro racers. There is where the proof comes from that pro racers can stop faster on clean dry pavement than ABS.. But it also showed that on slippery, wet, and changing traction situations, even pro racers stopped faster with the ABS, and non pros managed to stay on two wheels where without they did not. So it is not just about how fast you stop, but whether you come to a stop on two wheels or on you butt.

 

And we all know the fact is, once you are not on the rubber, stopping takes much longer.

 

 

Then I guess the 'pro-racers' should keep it on the track. Just because they're Pro's doesn't neccessarily give them street smarts. Track experience doesn't come close to the type of mine field a rider can experience on the street. Apples and oranges.... and since you brought up the BMW report to 'prove' your point, maybe the last sentence in the report sums it up.

I guess in the end the only real question is not whether or not you can afford ABS, but can you afford to ride without it?

Edited May 17, 2010 by Condor

[dynodon]

I am in favor of ABS on cars, same with a safe design of the dash board and seat belts etc. Some things just make sense and now that all the dust has settled on THOSE issues, it is basically a very good thing to have them in cars.

 

I am a driving instructor for several car clubs (not a pro racer, just an instructor for those that go to track days for fun) and know that ABS is a good thing in an emergency situation. I am also very good at threshold braking (what the "pro's" use to stop better than ABS sometimes) and could probably at least equal what ABS does, but last January, I was in my first (in 46 years of driving ) "at speed" accident when someone pulled out in front of me while I was driving my car. My threshold braking skills were of ZERO use in this situation because I had no time to think other than Oh Crap, and hit the brakes and BANG.

 

Driving down that road the next day I saw the evidence of ABS brakes for about 40 feet with consistent black marks dead straight, and even after I punted the offending car, the marks were still straight (my drivers training from Skip Barber and other schools and my track experience DID pay off in my ability to keep the car straight after the accident, but ABS was still in play) and the car came to a stop in the middle of the lane. Without ABS I may have not had such a good outcome.

 

I believe ABS on a bike is a good thing, but I do agree that for now, ABS is generally on the more expensive bikes purchased by older riders less likely to be in an accident, still, though, I know friends that would have benefited greatly from ABS in their accidents on bikes.

 

I want ABS on my next bike.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I believe I have earned the right to express my opinion without being insulted. I wonder if you would have made that reference were we talking in person.

 

 

And so have I. Having my argument called 'bogus' by you qualifies as insulting, dont you think? You took the discussion into the depths of personal attacks, and, I simply responded.

 

If your superior officer, a boss at work, or even a fellow soldier, presented his opinion on an upcoming strategy, and you did not agree, would you tell that officer, boss, or peer, that their argument was 'bogus'?

 

I think not. It implies disrespect and I wont lay down after a hit like that...as apparently, neither will you.

 

Unfortuntately, you seem to have a 'dog in the fight'...I have none. I dont care what you buy or ride, or how its equipped....why do you want to see MY choices of equipment align with YOUR vision of safety?

 

This was not supposed to be a personal attack forum. I will not respond further to this nonsense.

 

Back to the forum topic.

 

[RedRider]

I want ABS on my next bike.

 

I always wear my helmet.

 

I always wear a seat belt in my car.

 

I never smoke indoors.

 

I don't carry a concealed weapon.

 

However, I hate that the government is (trying to) mandating these behavoirs to me. They are not my mother. Stick to the job they do well, which is,.....????? I'll get back to you on that.

 

You can argue that ABS is preferable on a car/bike, it probably is. However, it is not the government's job to protect me from me. If the insurance institute wants ABS to be on all bikes, suggest to their PRIVATE COMPANY MEMBERS that they provide rate discounts for ABS and let the market make the decision.

 

This is not the intent of the Constitution's Commerce Clause which is the only needle eye they can try to force this mandating camel thru.

 

Rant off...

 

RR

[Guest tx2sturgis]

 

 

You can argue that ABS is preferable on a car/bike, it probably is. However, it is not the government's job to protect me from me. If the insurance institute wants ABS to be on all bikes, suggest to their PRIVATE COMPANY MEMBERS that they provide rate discounts for ABS and let the market make the decision.

 

 

Rant off...

 

RR

 

Excellent rant, and point, sir. Let the market decide.

 

[dynodon]

For a long time the market didn't care or decide on many safety issues. Most people are uninformed and don't care, just look to the voting turnouts in big elections to see ample evidence of that!

 

Many safety items that are a good thing would never have happened if there wasn't some intervention on the part of the government.

 

Yes, I am in favor of less government, but I do NOT want to go back to the turn of the century. There is a balance somewhere in there, but I am afraid that right now we have a group of elected officials that really are ramping up government involvement. But for safety for many manufactured items, I am in favor of some oversight. Food safety, consumer product safety etc. I don't want the manufacturers to have total control again, they have proved they won't police themselves.

[RedRaptor22]

BMW's outrigger studies on ABS brakes was done with the same bikes using a wide cross section of riders from beginners to pro racers. There is where the proof comes from that pro racers can stop faster on clean dry pavement than ABS.. But it also showed that on slippery, wet, and changing traction situations, even pro racers stopped faster with the ABS, and non pros managed to stay on two wheels where without they did not. So it is not just about how fast you stop, but whether you come to a stop on two wheels or on you butt.

 

And we all know the fact is, once you are not on the rubber, stopping takes much longer.

 

 

I'd also like to know what the percentage of crashes are caused by wet roads since most riders don't ride in the rain lol.

 

IMHO thats another situation where reflex decisions would come into play, One day I was on my way home from work and following a dodge dakota at around 30 yards difference at 45mph when it hit a suburban that turned left and actually spun out because of the rain on the oily roads, I barely managed to squeek between the two because there was another car next to me in the right lane and oncoming traffic in the other lane, any brakes at all and I'd have hit the suburban broad side and risked getting pancaked between it and the car behind me or bouncing into the other lane because ABS or not there was no way I could have stopped in time and even if I did the car behind me could'nt.

 

That seems to generally be the case in most crashes I hear about, even with ABS there simply is'nt enough room to stop once things start unfolding and once the braking attempt has failed there is'nt enough time to try avoiding the obstacle.

 

I rarely go for my brakes anymore when I see something unfolding around me, pretty much any really hard braking tosses control out the window, I'd rather take my chances dodging than going in a straight line hard on the brakes where there might be a chance I can stop with a much greater chance that I'll make contact and/or get smacked from behind also.

[hig4s]

And so have I. Having my argument called 'bogus' by you qualifies as insulting, dont you think? You took the discussion into the depths of personal attacks, and, I simply responded.

 

 

Bogus means "having a misleading appearance". And it did. Stating a fact is not an insult.

But I am sorry if it caused you to feel you needed to use made up incendiary terms like safety-crate socialism. I'll try not to use confusing words from now on.