This will surely ruffle some feathers -

[Hummingbird]

I know I'll be spat upon for this but I think it needs to be said just to bring things into proper perspective.

 

Occasionally, there are threads about the idiotic cagers colliding with a bike. Usually it's deemed the cages fault because they are in a cage and not on a bike, however, in other threads, it's mentioned how fast one can go on a bike either on the straight away or tackling some twisties.

 

This causes me to wonder if there is shared responsibility or if it always the cages fault when we as operators act like we're running the Datona 500 on bikes on public highways and subjecting ourselves to unsuspecting cagers.

 

Ok - fire away --

[eazyduzzit]

I'm guilty!

 

I don't spend a lot of time talking about cagers though, seeing as how my wife, daughter and old gray haired mammy are cagers. Heck I've even driven one on occasion.

[ediddy]

Doesn't ruffle my feathers, but I do wonder who is idiotic. I fail to see how someone talking about how fast they can go on a straight away or in twisties has anything to do with a cager failing to yield, running a stop sign or as happened to me last week, pulling over into my lane has anything to do with it.

[a1bummer]

I'm guessing that it would be fair to say that a certain percentage of those accidents are caused by bikers screwing around.

[bryan52577]

No firing from here. Does not mater what you are in, if you drive wild you're going to hit something or someone is going to hit you.

I have witnessed 5 motorcycle accidents in my life time so far. (5 to many) 3 were due to the motorcyclist not driving / riding sensibly (one passed a cage on right side of a two lane road hit by turning car, one riding wheel y through red light and one that pulled right in-front of a semi and stopped to turn "truck had them locked up with no place to go") and two were from the cages not paying attention.

 

With all that said, you STILL need to drive / ride defensively AND offensively. Assume that cage is going to pull out in-front of you, that cage is going to turn in-front of you, not see you, and be ready to counter act.

 

Bryan

[dingy]

There was an accident locally here a few years ago where a young man collided with a cager that had made a left turn in front of him. Biker was a teenager on a powerful crotch rocket.

 

The cage suffered severe damage in the accident, enough to have even bent the drive shaft of the cage. The cage was spun around 180 degrees from the force of the impact.

 

Speed limit in area was 25 mph.

 

The biker was reported by witnesses to have been doing well in excess of seventy mph.

 

The biker braked so hard that the rear wheel came off the ground at prior to impact.

 

The cager was cited and did 6 months in jail for vehicular manslaughter.

 

In this case I felt that the cager did nothing wrong, but was still held to blame for the apparent reckless operation by the biker. Had the biker been traveling at the speed limit, the cager would have had more than sufficient time to make the turn safely.

 

It is very difficult as a driver to realize that someone coming at you is traveling at a high rate of speed when the decision is made to make a turn in front of an oncoming vehicle.

 

I used to work for ConRail as the signal department. One of the requirements was that if there was a crossing accident at a protected crossing, I would have to go out immediately and run a series of tests on the crossing protection to check for proper operation. The area where I worked had a switching yard located there, so the speed of the train traffic varied depending on if the train was stopping in the area to do switching. Drivers would get inpatient waiting for the trains and often go around the gates.

 

The majority of the incidents occurred at night. It is much harder to judge the speed of a vehicle coming at you when the oncoming vehicle only has one headlight as in the case of trains. The reason being as a vehicle gets closer, there is a perception of the distance between the headlights increasing. This helps the brain to judge closing speed. With a train and motorcycles only having one headlight, this visual clue is not present. Drivers would go around the gates in order to beat the train not realizing that the train was approaching the crossing at a higher than anticipated speed.

 

Gary

[a1bummer]

With all that said, you STILL need to drive / ride defensively AND offensively. Assume that cage is going to pull out in-front of you, that cage is going to turn in-front of you, not see you, and be ready to counter act.

 

Bryan

 

Ditto!

 

Ever since I started riding the back roads almost everywhere I go, I seldom have any troubles with any cagers trying to kill me anymore. When I was running the freeways and main drags most of the time, it would be at least a 2-3 times a week. Even in my car, it's dangerous on those freeways and main roads. Two days in a row this week I almost had front bumper taken off by people moving into the left lane where I was, because there were cars coming down the on ramp. Both times there would've been an accident if I hadn't of hit my brakes.

[bluerstd08]

http://www2.wnct.com/nct/news/local/article/pitt_co._motorcyclist_killed_in_accident_one_person_charged/141836/

 

I'm not saying all accidents are the cagers fault. I tend to slow way down when coming up to an intersection and sometimes even blow the horn and make eye contact with the driver. My wife even tells me that I am way more cautious on the scoot than I have evern been in a cage.

 

On the other side of things I see bikers of all types that push their machines to the limits on public highways and not only hurt themselves but sadly hurt others as well. I've been guilty of this as well and after a few near misses I just figured I'd better cool down my riding for the most part. Be safe out there guys and gals. Its that time of year when more bikers and cagers are out and everyone seems to be in a hurry.

[GigaWhiskey]

I have been in about 9 bike wrecks with me on them, all 18 years old and younger. One time involved two of my bikes and a cage.

 

8 of those times it was my fault because I felt invincible and loved the thrill of pushing it harder and harder. Oh, and I had Mulholland drive & hwy and Angeles Crest.

 

The 9th time was mostly all my fault. I was riding 2up with my step-sister on fully Vetter dressed XS Eleven Special (my dad's) and a bud of mine on my 400-4. We we cruising down sunset blvd, in the evening about 65 (I think the speed limit was 35). I was was talking to sis, radio loud, and didn't notice the 400-4 slowing down (he was gearing down not touching the brakes). Then I saw the brake light, I hit both brakes, tired locked, I hit the 400-4, I helped push the 400-4 into the back of the car. The 400-4 stood straight-up because the front wheel and fender wrapped around the the rear bumper of the car and the XS was still standing because the forks had turned the bike enough to squeeze between the frame and rear wheel.

 

The bud went into the back window of the car, sis and I flew off to the left towards oncoming traffic. I clipped my knee on the handlebar on the way off, still have trouble with that knee. Sis still gets migraine headaches. Bud walked away without a scratch.

 

Here is why I say it was mostly my fault and not all of my fault. That section of Sunset was very dark, there was a tree that the limbs and leaves came out over two lanes blocking any moonlight, the car was stopped there in the lane not moving with lights off like they were wanting an accident to happen and bud waited a long time to touch the brakes for the brake light on the bike to come on. You almost could not see the car there.

 

What makes it mostly my fault was, I let bud ride my bike and I let him ride it carelessly. I followed behind way above the speed limit. I should have been paying more attention to know more of what was going on instead of talking to sis. I should have had more distance between the bikes but thought I had enough at the time. I should have had an OUT strategy (something I make a point to have now). And I should have been more considerate of the life I had behind me that trusted me with theirs. I still feel bad about the migraines sis still gets since then.

 

I know this will get dissected but that is fine. That is the story I have stuck to and still will.

 

I guess my point here is with most of y'all and it is not always the cagers fault, it could easily be the fault of a kid who feels invincible. When I ride, do I feel that cagers are out to get me? Heck yes I do, lol. Do cagers seem to pay less attention than those cagers of 30 years ago? I do believe they pay less attention now than they did 30 years ago.

 

For those of you that may be concerned about my riding, I have not ridden like I did as a young lad since about 18. I know, I picked up a sport tourer in 94 but the, but the..but the bike is HOT (my VR).

 

Carry on!

[Snarley Bill]

hey guys aren't we all cagers. i think i have a 4 wheel vehical i drive daily. it's not the vehical that has the mind, it's the nut behind the wheel or bars. my only complaint with the nuts doing the steering is, tailgating, running red lights, and cell phones. whether it be a biker or a cager. i ain't nothing special just cuz i'm on a bike. the big problem is bikers have no protection. a fender bender in a car, can be fatal on a bike.

[midnightventure]

The two car motorcycle accidents I have been in were both when I was driving less aggressive than usual. One a lady rear ended me (she was on her cell phone) when I didn't go out into heavy traffic on a four lane highway. In the same situation in the past I probably would have gone but I had told myself I needed to stop being such an aggressive rider. The second one was my bad one. I was riding pretty easy because I had the flu and the only reason I was out was picking up the bike after having valve adjustment done. If I had been riding as fast as I usually do I would have been way trough the intersection where the lady turned left in front of me.

 

A friend of mines son was popping a wheelie on our main drag. A lady pulled out in front of him and he went down and slid into the car and was killed. I would say that wasn't her fault because of the excessive speed and the fact the headlight was pointed into the sky instead of straight ahead.

[sarges46]

of us ride pretty reasonable. Sometimes we "stretch" her out just for the thrill. Best be careful doing that.

 

I have seen real dumb dumb riders though. Funny, just yesterday there was a fella with his little guy riding shotgun. I pulled up beside him (suv) gave the little guy a wave. His Dad (I presume) gunned it when the light changed...I mean he gunned it....and weaving inside his lane each shift. Probably giving a thrill to the little guy. So two problems...he is teaching his kid to ride like a dumb dumb and the kid was dressed in ......muscle shirt, shorts and crocs on his feet.

 

If the kid was 7 then I am 20. That wasnt right.

[1 Canuck]

Hey, what about those bikers who will pass you in your own lane? That has happened to me quite a few times on the highway. Unexpectedly a bike will shoot by you about a foot away from your bike in your lane...gotta be crazy?

I caught up to a guy and asked him what are you trying to do kill both of us passing me in my lane, what's wrong with you? The answer I get...what? Lights are on...nobodies home.

While riding, if you have passed someone on their bike , in their lane...just call yourself an idiot!

After seeing some bikers ride, certainly can't blame all the car drivers all the time, even though they seem to never see you.

[rod]

According to reports I have read the cars are at fault over 70% of the time. There a lot of foolish riders that wreck but most of the time it is a single bike loosing control. We as riders tend to be much better drivers as we pay more attention to the conditions, a hold over from our riding habits. It is the foolish rider that get the press. I push the bike hard at times but choose the time and place with care. We practice and train to hone our skills but how many drivers do the same? Speeding and blaming the car for pulling out in front of you is not right. Rod

[MiCarl]

Hey, what about those bikers who will pass you in your own lane?

 

That really pisses me off. Here in Michigan it's illegal, a motorcycle "owns" the whole width of the lane just like any other vehicle.

 

BTW, bicyclists own the whole lane too. How many of us take 3/4 of the lane when we pass them?

[GigaWhiskey]

I remember passing bikes in the same lane when I was younger but I never flew passed them. The bike usually saw me, moved to the side of the lane and then I eased up next to them. Once i was next to them at about the same speed I nodded and eased off ahead of them.

 

The CHiPpy's did it, so I figured I could too, lol.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSzEmPEnYxo]YouTube- Chips tv intro[/ame]

[hig4s]

The biker was reported by witnesses to have been doing well in excess of seventy mph.

 

The biker braked so hard that the rear wheel came off the ground at prior to impact.

 

The witnesses had speed calibrated eyes?

More than 90% of all stopping power on sportbikes is from the front and they can stop faster than virtually any cruiser at the same speed using only the front brake. Getting the rear wheel up is not hard to do on modern sportbikes. If you are stopping the bike to its ability you virtually have to have no weight or traction on the rear wheel.

 

If the cager was convicted, I have to assume there was evidence that showed the bike was too close and he shouldn't have pulled out even if the bike had been doing the speed limit.

For the most part, police, courts, and insurance companies are biased against sport bikes, If there was anyway to pin it in the sport biker, I'm sure they would have.

 

I got a reckless driving ticket several years ago while riding what the police perceived as a sport bike because I accelerated from a stop light quickly and ran the bike briskly through 3 gears. They said they didn't get a radar gun on me but KNEW I was doing at least 90mph in a 55mph zone.

 

But I was riding a Kaw Zr7S, 25 year old, air cooled 750cc engine technology. It produced all of about 60 some horse, and could not get to 90 in 3rd gear at WOT, no way I was going over 70mph. 15 over, big whoop, I see semis doing 80 in 65 zones and not even getting stopped all the time. But it was bright yellow and looked like a sport bike. I even got a lecture that an old fart like me should be riding a Goldwing. I didn't bother to tell him that with 118hp, the Wing would out perform my ZR, and could actually get to 90 in 3rd gear. Why bother, some people just don't need any facts to make a judgment and be sure they are right.

Edited May 16, 2010 by hig4s

[Sailor]

I agree, bikers need to ride and be aware. I also support graduated licencing. It is insane to allow any 16 year old kid to get his hands on a Ninja 1000 or a Hyabusa.

That being said, on my way back from Victoria yesterday, I was at a red light waiting to turn left. The left turn signal came on and I started into the turn. A girl in a red car tried to cut me off by squeezing between me and the center divider. When I checked my mirror I was 2/3 of the way through the turn and she had her bumper about 6 inches from my rear end and was trying to inch her way inside. There was heavy traffic but I switched lanes anyway to get away from her. Later I was on the highway with no traffic around me. There was a green light ahead of me. Three cars were facing me, waiting to turn left. I know there is a left turn signal at this intersection so I knew they had a red light. When I got close a woman in a grey van turned left right in front of me against a red light. I got past her back end. As has been said " There is no cure for stupidity" On the way to and from the ride ride I did notice that the overhead traffic advisory signs flashed "Watch for motorcyclists." Perhaps we are getting through to the powers that be.

[Yammer Dan]

I have had THREE major accidents in the last ten years. The only way I could have missed any of them was not be there. Tired of trying to explain them. The next %^&()**&&^ that runs over me had better kill me. If not I got something for them.

[Guest Swifty]

Ok - fire away --

Ok, here's my shot ...from this morning's ride.

[BradT]

Ok, here's my shot ...from this morning's ride.

 

Did yah run out of road, power, or nerve ?

 

Nope would not have caught up but would see you at the end of the road.

 

Brad

[spear]

I must be doing something wrong.

I turn 60 next year.

Have been driving cages and riding bikes since I was 16.

Never scratched a panel on anything.

Never laid a bike down.

Worst thing that ever happened was a rogue wallaby at 1am in the hills decided to have a look at the highway - using my headlights for illumination.

And that was a good bump that didn't kill the wallaby and only pushed in the side of my front bumper. And he/she was to blame - not me!

[royalstarjac]

That really pisses me off. Here in Michigan it's illegal, a motorcycle "owns" the whole width of the lane just like any other vehicle.

 

BTW, bicyclists own the whole lane too. How many of us take 3/4 of the lane when we pass them?

 

What about cages passing you in your lane? I've had it happen.

[Guest Swifty]

Did yah run out of road, power, or nerve ?

road, going into Vanessa.

[massey130]

It all boils down to poor driving - whether on a bike or cage.

poor meaning whatever the action is that causes you to not drive properly.

 

being defensive is a key as has been discussed. i have seen both cage and bikes do dumb things. cages and bikes are tools, we need to use them accordingly.

 

we have 2 cars and 2 trucks, 1 RSV and 2 four wheelers. i try to keep them safe and sound.

 

when we "play" a bit on our bikes, we need to be careful and choose the right place to do it.

 

living in the country i get to to some zipping around on the 4 lane hwy, but i dont' get crazy.

 

I drive carefully on the bike and it has made me a better cage driver.