A new really bad noise.

[Flyinfool]

Today on my way home from work my bike learned to make a really obnoxious noise.

 

The noise is like a heavy grinding sound coming from the rear end area.

It only makes this sound when decelerating with a lot of engine braking AND application of the rear brake. It does mot make this noise with just rear brake or just engine braking.

 

The rear pads are at about 50% wear and the rotor looks smooth on both sides.

The oil level is the rear is correct.

 

Any ideas?

[Pappa Bear]

Sounds like its time to service the driveshaft splines,and the posts that are in the rim, and the splines on the rim with some moly grease!

[dingy]

While your in there change the rear end oil.

 

There is a magnet on the drain plug so you can see if there is excessive metal shavings.

 

Service manual says very small amount of shavings are normal.

 

Also look at rear wheel bearings.

 

By only making noise when engine braking & rotor braking the rear end has pressure exerted on both sides.

 

Braking with one or the other exerts more pressure on one side or the other.

 

So with the equal braking it could be the bearings having an issue.

 

Not that lubing the shaft & splines is a bad idea, but I would think shaft especially would show noise all the time.

 

Hub splines may be culprit, but I don't see that contact point generating a grinding noise.

 

Gary

Edited May 15, 2010 by dingy

[Guest seuadr]

Hub splines may be culprit, but I don't see that contact point generating a grinding noise.

 

Gary

i've heard various hub splines going, it isn't much of a grind, on the suzukis it was a click, or a whine.

[Skid]

Drive shaft needs grease, been there done that....

[Eck]

With your engine shut off, being on pavement or a cement surface, slowly push your bike forward and aft..Listen carefully for a grinding noise..

If you hear it, then your hub splines need completely cleaned of dirt, rust and any OLD lube that may be in there. I'm willing to bet you wont see any..

 

To do this, I use a small gun cleaning "soft" wire brush and snip the wire handle off leaving enough sticking out to place it in my battery operated drill motor..

 

Clean / polish each of the (5) pin holes real good.

Use a strip of 600 grit sand paper and pull it back & forth on the pins to remove all the rust and debris..

 

Take a Q-Tip and apply molly lube to the inside of the (5) pin holes making sure the lube is all the way around the ID of hole

 

Apply more lube to the OD of the pins.. here I would not "cake" the grease on because it will come off and ooze down the holes in the rim spokes and come out around the rim (caused by the centrifugal force) thus making a total mess..

Just ask me how I learned this....duh....

 

While in there, you may as well go ahead and pull the drive shaft and grease it up AND change the hub gear lube as both being mentioned in prior posts.

 

Good luck

[Flyinfool]

The "grinding" noise is kind of like the old baseball card in the spokes, from when I was a kid, only higher pitch. It is hard to describe a noise.

 

I guess I get to figure out how to start pulling out the rear wheel....... bummer.

[Guest Swifty]

Clean / polish each of the (5) pin holes real good.

Use a strip of 600 grit sand paper and pull it back & forth on the pins to remove all the rust and debris..

 

Take a Q-Tip and apply molly lube to the inside of the (5) pin holes making sure the lube is all the way around the ID of hole

 

Apply more lube to the OD of the pins.. here I would not "cake" the grease on because it will come off and ooze down the holes in the rim spokes and come out around the rim (caused by the centrifugal force) thus making a total mess..

Doesn't this just apply to the 2nd gen?

Isn't Flyinfool on an 88?

[Rocket]

Doesn't this just apply to the 2nd gen?

Isn't Flyinfool on an 88?

 

Nope, the wheel spline & dive pin assy is held in place, by a circlip on the wheel hub.

 

You haven't noticed it, during your winter work projects or tire changes?????

 

If you're that blind, maybe time to go to a 2nd gen......

[Flyinfool]

OK

I used the rear wheel removal instructions int the tech section. (Man I love this site)

I needed 70 lbs of junk in the trunk (NOW I know what that barbell set is for) to get the balance correct.

The only change that I had to do to the rear wheel removal instructions was that I had to remove both mufflers, because I do not have a 27mm wrench, only a socket and I would need the straight shot to torque it during assy. As I found out pulling the muffler is no big deal.

Got the rear wheel off and the splines were VERY well greased with a black grease so it could have been molly grease.

I cleaned all of the old grease out and and checked the rear bearings, they look and feel perfect.

Next, as long as I was there I drained the lube out of the rear end and it looked very black and yucky.

Then I removed the rear end to get at the drive shaft and the front spline was bone dry, it even had some rust on it. Hmmmm possibly my culprit???

 

So I cleaned it up, greased it up and wiggled and jiggled the drive shaft back in.

Lubed up the splines on the rear end and bolted it back in place.

put the rear tire and brake back in.

Filled the rear end up with new lube.

And of course I couldn't wait so I fired it up with no mufflers or front wheel on just to be able to run the rear wheel to listen for noises. The rear end sounded fine but boy was it loud!!!!!

 

I was just about to tip it back onto the rear wheel to put the front wheel on when it happened. Yup the big OH POO!! (edited to remain PG)

 

What is this oily spring about a half inch in diameter an about 2 inches long, stuck to the magnet on the bottom of my magnetic parts tray.

 

OH POO!!!! (ed.) That spring is the one that goes in between the rear end and the drive shaft!!!! Oh POO!!!! (ed.)

 

Start all over take everything apart, and put it back together with ALL of the parts this time.

 

Took it for a short ride thru the park and tried to get it to make that noise again but I could not get the noise. Since the noise was intermittent I will be listening for it to reappear.

 

Since the lube that came out of the rear end looked so bad I will run 2 tanks of gas and then change it again.

 

This is one of the cheapest repairs that I have ever done, $0.70 for the new pin to hod on the rear axle nut and $3.00 for a small tub of molly grease. Less that a value meal at Rotten Ronnie's.

 

After all of that, I had just a shred of ambition left so I mounted my Wolo Bad Boy that I bought last fall.

Now I will have a good noise as soon as I wire it up, ambition ran out for today.

 

Thanks guys.

Sorry I typed so long.

I'll shut up and go ride some now......

Edited May 16, 2010 by Flyinfool

[Yammer Dan]

The "grinding" noise is kind of like the old baseball card in the spokes, from when I was a kid, only higher pitch. It is hard to describe a noise.

 

I guess I get to figure out how to start pulling out the rear wheel....... bummer.

 

 

 

Was that the Mickey Mantel rookie card????:rotfl:

[Flyinfool]

Was that the Mickey Mantel rookie card????:rotfl:

 

That would be the one that had the best tone.....

 

 

OH POOO some more.

The noise is still there.

 

It does not do it all of the time, I can not make it do it when I want it to either.

It is loud enough that I got some really strange looks from pedestrians as I came to a stop.

When it makes the noise I can feel it vibrate through the whole bike but there is a very pronounced vibration in the rear brake pedal.This makes me think it is brake related more so that engine brake related. Since I almost always use a lot of engine braking, it may have been a coincidence that the noise showed up during both engine and rear brake, I did get it once with just the rear brake.

 

I'm thinking of pulling off the rear rotor and give it a quick scuff with the DA sander, and/or maybe put in a new set of HH pads.

 

What cha all think.

[Venturous Randy]

My first thought was the nut had broken on the pinion shaft, allowing the pinion gear to go deeper into the ring gear under decelleration, but if you had that all off and it did not come apart, maybe that was not it. That is a problem that happens ocassionally on these rear ends. If you have it apart again, see if you can move the collar on the rearend where the driveshafts slides into. It should be very tight. It will rotate, but should have no wobble. It will actually stay in place as it is still on the splined pinion shaft.

RandyA

[Brake Pad]

if your bike is a 07, for what ever reason, the shaft isn't the same as earler years, different metal, as per my service tech ( Could Be BS TOO), I had to replace mine at 12, 300 miles. & they had to order if from japan, 1 month of no riding

[Pappa Bear]

Now I'm trying to remember that spring when I took mine apart!!!! I just don't recall it.

[dingy]

Have you checked the torque on the rear disk to rim mounting bolts?

 

And also caliper mounts.

 

It's a long shot, but an idea.

 

Gary

[Guest tx2sturgis]

My bike ( 2nd gen) did this when I was in Sturgis SD in 2008 and I took it to the dealer in Rapid City ( Black Hills Powersports) for a warranty look-see. They attributed it to improper torque on the rear drive assembly, allowing it to twist slightly and put the drive system into improper alignment.

 

I would describe the problem mine had as a somewhat muffled grinding sound, rear wheel speed dependent, but accompanied with a grinding 'sensation', felt thru the seat and boards and brake pedal.

 

I did not see the mechanics work, so I can only assume he made the correct assessment. They made the 'repair' under warranty, no charge to me. It has not had the problem since.

 

Did this start suddenly? Did it seem to appear after some really hard running, or hard acceleration? Or pulling a trailer maybe? If so, maybe the alignment is 'tweaked' just a tad. Many members on here can describe the technique for the rear alignment, involving the sequence of the axle replacement and the bolt tightening procedure. I have not done it myself so will have to refer you to others who have.

 

 

Good Luck.

Edited May 17, 2010 by tx2sturgis

[jasonm.]

FYI-. On a 1300 you should NEVER remove the drive shaft from the "pumpkin". There is a seal to keep the gear oil in the rear and LUBE the rear shaft drive splines. Is the seal there? At least it should be. Otherwise you'll have a pile of oil in the swingarm. Always start with the simplest thing 1st. Brake parts....

[Flyinfool]

Brian

This did not start suddenly.

It started as an occasional squeak that was so short in duration and so infrequent that I was not sure that it was even there. It has been getting steadily louder and more frequent.

It is still intermittent and only happened once in 20 miles of riding after I did the work.

When it happens it is at very low speed, 5-10 mph, just before I come to a stop.

I have never pulled a trailer yet and I have not been riding any harder tan normal. Till yesterday the rear has not been apart in the 3 years that I have had it.

 

Jasonm

Yes the seal is there and not leaking.

The instructions in the tech library did say to remove the drive shaft from the pumpkin so I did. The inside of the swing arm was dry.

 

Gary

The caliper has been off twice and each time torqued with a torque wrench.

I have not checked the disc bolts but will when I take it off to scuff it.

[ChurchBuilder]

I hate to be the one who says this but it sounds like the Driven Cam in the middle gear. It can split and slip on the splined shaft that drives it. A hard repair that you habve to split the cases to cure. I found mine by removing the swing arm and looking into the engine through the hole where the drive shaft comes out. You can see the driven cam and look for cracks or pieces of metal.....Good luck.

[curtis]

I have been following your post here close since last night I went for a ride and my rear end (on the bike) started making noise. Mine is making a constant grinding sound. You can pull in the clutch while riding about 15 mph and hear it. The faster you go the louder it is. I took the rear wheel off today since I really need to replace the tire anyway, but I am lost on what all I am suppose to clean. Is it only the splines between the pumpkin and rear wheel? I pulled the drive shaft out of the swing arm it is dry and looks good. I am afraid of pulling it out of the pumpkin because whoever put the seal in there did not do a good job. It is not leaking and unless I need to do something in there I don't want to disturb.

 

Do I pull the bolt out of the pumpkin on the side that goes to the wheel and clean in there?

 

ps. flyinfool did you ever find out what was causing your noise. I am lost here to so sorry I cant help.

[mraf]

I have been following your post here close since last night I went for a ride and my rear end (on the bike) started making noise. Mine is making a constant grinding sound. You can pull in the clutch while riding about 15 mph and hear it. The faster you go the louder it is. I took the rear wheel off today since I really need to replace the tire anyway, but I am lost on what all I am suppose to clean. Is it only the splines between the pumpkin and rear wheel? I pulled the drive shaft out of the swing arm it is dry and looks good. I am afraid of pulling it out of the pumpkin because whoever put the seal in there did not do a good job. It is not leaking and unless I need to do something in there I don't want to disturb.

 

Do I pull the bolt out of the pumpkin on the side that goes to the wheel and clean in there?

 

ps. flyinfool did you ever find out what was causing your noise. I am lost here to so sorry I cant help.

 

Maybe this will help. http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1057 Do not pull the drive shaft out of the pumpkin. The 86 and on ventures lubed it with the pumpkin fluid.

[curtis]

I went to the site and it answered several of my questions but I found the clip on the wheel and pulled it off but how do you get the hub off. I don;t want to start prying on something and then it brake. Is the hub held on by anything other than the clip?

[Rocket]

I went to the site and it answered several of my questions but I found the clip on the wheel and pulled it off but how do you get the hub off. I don;t want to start prying on something and then it brake. Is the hub held on by anything other than the clip?

 

The clip, is all that normally holds the assy in. So it should just lift off, but sometimes gentle prying is needed, between the bracket & wheel itself, closer to the pins. As the pins, may have rusted into place, you want to clean & lube the pins.

[Flyinfool]

I did hit all of the disk bolts with the torque wrench and none of the bolts moved so they were all tight.

I did scuff the right side of the rear brake disk and it did help reduce the noise a lot but it is still not gone. I did not have time to pull the rear wheel so that I can take the disk off to scuff the left side of the disk.

 

I now think it is just a glazed rear disk, since scuffing what I could get to did help. As soon as I get a chance I will pull the rear wheel to clean up the rear brakes properly, and pull out that snap ring and clean and lube the pins.

It will also be a good chance to check to be sure that I did not create a leak when I pulled the drive shaft out of the rear end. and do another oil change on the rear end since the oil that I changed two weeks ago looked so bad.

 

Speaking of the rear end oil change, Is it realistic to dump some solvent into the rear end and spinning it by hand to flush out that old muddy oil and crud or am I just best to keep changing the oil every other tank of gas till it drains out clean?