CCW Holders?

[BOO]

You mean there is a place where you can rent women for a while and then exchange them when you are done? Hmmmm. Not sure if that would be wise expenditure of money either.

 

RR

 

 

Sounds like fun though,

BOO

[OutlawRider]

No drama that way...

[Sylvester]

I bought my Bersa Thunder before the prices went high and carry it all the time. I use an ankle holster and carry it as back up. This is one slick little gun and is very accurate. It is built to do the job and is a safe carry gun. I carry a Remington R1 .45 ACP as my main weapon with cocked and locked safety, but the Bersa has been carried as prime weapon more than once since it is so concealable.

 

[Al Bates]

WE ALL NEED TO REMEMBER...only use the firearm where nothing else will work.

 

Walk away if you can. I know it is hard with some folks acting stupid and really testing you. Never resort to the deadly weapon in anger. If you carry a weapon you need to be in control of yourself and your emotions at all times.

 

Most of the time you probably should never use it to defend property (Property = wallet, wheels on your car, or bike) unless it is inside your home. Inside the home is a little different. Most states do not require you to retreat from your home if someone is threating your life. In some states you have the responsiblity to retreat on the street and in your home.

 

Know the laws of your state or the state you are in at the time...hopefully you have training that taught you the laws before you start carring a deadly weapon. You need to know what you can and cannot do.

 

Is it worth paying a lawyer thousands and thousands of dollars to keep your butt out of jail when your life or the life of your loved ones may not have actually been in danger, cause you cannot totally convince a jury of your peers that you were about to loose your life.

 

You need to make sure your opponent has the ability, means and intentions to cause you or a loved one deadly harm. Meet force with equal force. A black eye or knocked out teeth is not deadly force unless you are of the weaker sex (woman) or there are multiple bad guys or he is really really big and you are an old man maybe with a cane. A guy in a wheel chair with a baseball bat may have the intent and means but he does not have the abilty...you can walk away from him to avoid the danger.

 

Masaad Ayoob used (or may still do) to carry a book of matches with a $5 bill wrapped around it to toss to the bad guys he encountered and tell them to go buy them selves a drink, hoping they would go on thier way rather than having to kill them cause they were robbing or about to try to mug him. This set him up in the courts that he tried to pay them to leave.

 

With the judges sitting on the bench now days and the DA's that are in office plus what you could get as a jury...you need make sure you are justified in the use of deadly force. If you pull out a deadly weapon (knife or gun sometimes a beer bottle), becareful...you could be charged with assault with a deadly weapon (according to how the witnesses interpret your intent) and go to jail a few years for that...even if it was just to scare the guy or make him go away.

In a standard murder defense, the state has to prove the elements of the crime to the standards of "Beyond a reasonable doubt" and it is the defense's job to descredit the prosecution and the witnesses it presents. But in a true self defense case, the burden of proof shifts to the defendant to prove that your actions were that of a reasonable and prudent person and your proof must meet the standards of a "preponderance of evidence"...You need evidence you acted reasonable...simular to a civil case. In some states you could also be sued in civil court for damages costing you millions of dollars if you are convicted or not. Mississippi law says if you are cleared of all crimes in the incident then they cannot sue you in civil court.

 

Do not be a hero. Do not get involved with disputes that you do not know all the facts of or are not your fights. If you see a guy beating the snot out of a woman on the side of the road...do not get involved or pull your gun to break it up. (I know this is a hard one for us guys) You do not know all the facts..that could be a plain clothes officer arresting a conviced fellon/mulitple murderer. You do not know the facts of what is going on...Call 911 and be a good witness.

 

If you fire that weapon you are pretty much garanteed to go to jail, for a little while at least. It is gonna cost you lawyer fees...make sure it is worth it.

 

It will be hard for me to hand over my wallet, even if it has no cash in it, to anybody and not sure I could do it without causing much discomfort to the robber, but if he had a knife or a gun, I am sure I would feel my life was in danger and probably use my weapon to stop what is going on very quickly. I then would have a big lawyer bill to deal with and the stress of worrying if I was going to jail for a long time. You have to think real hard about what you will do before it happens.

 

We can all just hope and pray we never ever have to use deadly force, but like a spare tire or a fire extenguisher...it will be there if we need it as a last resort to save our lives.

Be careful how you respond.

 

Note: Massad Ayoob is a well know police officer, author of many books on self defense, expert witness for many self defense court cases and one of the best firearms instructors in the country. Google his name...read some of his books.

 

Very well said!!!!!

 

But for me, no one is going to beat on me, when there's a conflict I say nothing and walk away, if that don't work and if he jumps on me and after he takes first swing, that's it. I will defend myself any way I can

[marinakorp]

Hey Beer, old thread here, but if you're still following I'm wondering what your thoughts are on Bersa. I am looking into getting my first handgun and concealed carry license and am looking very seriously at the Bersa 380 CC or 9mm ultra compact. I've seen lots of reviews and they seem to be too good to be true. Good quality firearms at bargain basement prices. Your take?

 

Bersa makes a decent enough gun.

If you have meaty hands... You may experience the slide biting the connecting flesh between your thumb and index fingers.

 

Good gun... Not for my hands.

[BEER30]

Bersa makes a decent enough gun.

If you have meaty hands... You may experience the slide biting the connecting flesh between your thumb and index fingers.

 

Good gun... Not for my hands.

 

Sorry to hear the BERSA chewing up your hand. One of the employees that I take Tactical Shooting course with as well as 3 gun shoot has a Glock 19. His hand is a bloody mesh at the end of the day. My brother in laws (2 of them) are LEO and they too get their hand chewed up as well. I have no issues shooting the Glock , however I do not like the feel of it in my hand. I have fairly large hands myself .

Our employee and I discussed this issue with several Instructors. Besides wearing gloves, they said to re-assure your grip. Make the necessary adjustments in grip technique and drill, drill , drill. Smaller pistols with less recoil will not require the death grip such as larger handguns of higher caliber. Thous saying the Death grip is not needed.

Wife has small hands and hadn't had the worm-bite yet. She does need more training and we will be out on the range with her real soon. Then off to an instructor to educate her more professionally. Then off to get her he Carry Conceal. What else is better than to have a Navigator that doubles as Tail-Gunner !

 

 

BEER30

[Guest Oldsalt]

Thanks. That's what I keep hearing so I guess it must be correct. Been looking around with my son who has a good friend who is really big into guns and has probably dozens. He has my son convinced that he won't be happy unless he gets an H&K or Kimber or other high dollar handgun. I just don't see the point - not for a first gun. I've tried to get him to look at the Bersas but he doesn't think they are good enough. Don't know what he wants - actually I don't think HE knows what he wants. If it's reliable and accurate, and has the features you need, why spend 3 times more money?

 

Another way to look at this is considering which helmet to buy. Price is not the issue in my opion. Is it going to protect my brain box and is it comfortable. Function is what you are after...price is not an issue. Or, what price do you put on your safety? Your last sentence is to the point. The gun must work when you want it to and both it and you need to be accurate. Everything else is a distant 2nd place IMO.

oldsalt

[BEER30]

I can contest to the BERSA as I have have shot both brass and aluminum cased ammo without any incidents. I say that wife and I have at least put almost 4K of lead down range.

 

 

BEER30

[saddlebum]

If you do not wish to carry a firearm , there is always paper !

 

 

BEER30

 

YouTube- Self defense with Ronald Duncan: Newspaper

Hey Beer what are the state laws regarding the carryng of a concealed newspaper, strictly for personal defence :think::think:

[BEER30]

Hey Beer what are the state laws regarding the carryng of a concealed newspaper, strictly for personal defence :think::think:

 

That's a good question. I'll call our CCW officer at the county chicken shack to find out. I need to discuss something with him anyways.

 

 

 

BEER30

[Yamaman]

I bought my Bersa Thunder before the prices went high and carry it all the time. I use an ankle holster and carry it as back up. This is one slick little gun and is very accurate. It is built to do the job and is a safe carry gun. I carry a Remington R1 .45 ACP as my main weapon with cocked and locked safety, but the Bersa has been carried as prime weapon more than once since it is so concealable.

 

 

They're high now? Seem very reasonable compared to many other, besides some cheapies that are junk from what I hear. I've seen 380s for under $250 and from what I understand they have a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser. I was going to buy used, but the few I've seen in pawn shops are priced higher than new, so no point.

 

Anyway, thanks to all who weighed in on this. I will check out the gun range idea - that's a good suggestions.

[OldBear]

Remember always that the MOST important feature of a handgun is reliability. Whether it costs $200 or $2000 does not matter near as much as does it go "bang" each time, every time, with any ammunition you choose to carry and after having lived in a holster for a LONG time without having been fired. IF it doesn't function reliably you are only fooling yourself about being protected. I've trained a couple folks with the Bersa's and have had excellent experience with them. I also had a friend whose "custom" .45 would NOT reliably feed.....Just sayin', price is not "the" criteria. Typically you get what you pay for BUT inexpensive doesn't necessarily mean "no good" and expensive doesn't always mean "great".

 

Personally, a Para Companion DA .45 works pretty well, though I've also used an S&W Centennial and an NAA Guardian at times. Get something that works for YOU, practice with it, and carry it. I carry (permit for the past 11 years) for the same reason I've got a spare tire on the truck....I don't plan on using it, BUT if I need it nothing else will do...