Tippy or Top Heavy?

[Blue Giant]

Ok Gurus, here's my dilemna;

 

I bought an 86 Venture Royale late last summer. I love the bike, it's what I wanted. I didn't care much for the low speed handling but I new the tires where at the end of their life span and would be replacing them over the winter months along with some regular maintenance like changing the fork oil, regreasing the wheel bearings, regreasing the suspension links including adding grease fittings, adjusting the steering head bearings (they were to tight)and fixing the class system. I believe I did everything that I could based on searching posts on this forum.

 

The bike handles much better but at very slow speeds (like approaching a full stop) the bike gets very unstable or feels tippy? The slightest lean either way to correct seems to overcorrect. Several times I felt like i was going to drop the bike. Is top heavy an issue with these bikes or did I miss something when I went over the bike this winter?

 

I'm at the point where I'm considering selling it before I hurt myself or damage the bike.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

[painterman67]

my 91 is a bit top heavy at slow speeds but it took me awhile to get used to it. Hope you find a happy medium. And my bike did seem to get a little oversensative to my reactions until the new tires got scrubbed in.

 

 

David

[Guest seuadr]

it's a learning curve is all i can say. pratice with it in a parkinglot, circles, u turns, sudden stops and such.

[hipshot]

Paul, the RULE here is you ARE gonna drop it , or you have already done so.very few, escape this rule.

these big bikes are top heavy, and take a LOT of getting used to.

just jt

[buddy]

They are top heavy, I had to get used to my 83. Second Gen. the same way, top heavy. What helped me was just ride it and get used to it, but their are few here that just could not do it.. And went with something else....

[MikeWa]

It is top heavy. It takes a while to get used to it. Coming to a stop takes some practice as does low speed maneuvering.

Mike

[Blue Giant]

Thanks guys, I'll keep working at it! I did drop it once, i was stopped thankfully and only broke a highway peg mount!

[GigaWhiskey]

Come to think of it, I had to lay her over slowly a couple times in '94 and '95. You figure it out better over time.

 

Now getting the ole lady on the back while your trying to hold it up can be a treat!

[bongobobny]

Yah! Tall bike and a little on the top heavy side, but no where near as top heavy as a 2nde gen. Just takes a while to get used to it. Play with your air suspension alittle to see which setting works best for you. Omnce you get used to it, you will find the 1st gens quite maneuverable! Keep in mind it is a touring bike, not a sport bike though...

[friesman]

I dropped mine while stopped in the driveway within a day of having mine too, but I got used to it after awhile.

It helps to have the class system down in the rear at low speed, but, the biggest help I got was from buying and watching Ride like a Pro DVD. The tricks of using your rear brake and friction zone in the clutch to hold you up while moving at slow speed really do work well!

 

I also learned how to pick Brownie up without hurting my back by watching that video.

 

Brian

[Guest Swifty]

Ok Gurus, here's my dilemna;

 

regreasing the wheel bearings,

 

adjusting the steering head bearings (they were to tight)

 

at very slow speeds (like approaching a full stop) the bike gets very unstable or feels tippy? The slightest lean either way to correct seems to overcorrect.

 

I'm at the point where I'm considering selling it before I hurt myself or damage the bike.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

Paul, the above statements are all hints that there may still be something wrong with the steering. If you haven't been on a Venture that steers smoothly you haven't had something to compare it with. But your description of tippy and over correcting was the same feeling I had when I was trying to stretch my season the previous year until I knew I had to replace the bearings. When the steering is not right the bike is like trying to balance a caber on the palm of your hand...it feels like it's going to fall over as you approach a stop, and you're always correcting and then over correcting. One ride I had through the Virginia felt like I was fighting the civil war all by my lonesome. But when the steering is right the bike shouldn't be a problem, even at slow speeds. Any rider with some experience on bigger bikes, (assuming you've had an XS11), and any rider who is properly inseamed to fit the VR should NOT have ANY problem with this bike.

[BradT]

Good reply Swifty. I was going to say that steering head may be too loose as that is how my 2nd gen feels, when brgs are loose.

I was also going to mention the height, first gen is taller than the second gen but if you can't reach ground with some room to spare you may have troubles with the first gen. (same on the second gen)

 

I think the first gen is more top heavy than a second gen but it is easier to ride at slow speeds.

 

Brad

[GeorgeS]

I always Back into Downhill parking spaces !!!! You don't want to have to push these things backwards out of a parking Space !!!!

 

When backing bike out of my garage and down my fairly long drive way, I always keep the Side Stand down, and favor the left side a little untill I get the bike in

position to drive away. And, I make sure the engine is not running, when backing down my drive way, Its a little down hill.

 

Yes, they are top heavy, Always try to Load your Heavy Items in bottom of bags, and even out the weight from side to side.

 

I second the advice , to use an empty parking lot on Sunday morning to practice low speed manevuring, with the beast !!!

[MiCarl]

They do take some getting used to. Had to do it all over again when the Mrs. climbed on too.

 

Swifty's post gave me a thought though. If the bearings were really too tight they likely created little low spots in the races and flats on the rollers. Those spots will be right at the straight ahead position. If it's got them it will tend to hunt back and forth in them at low speeds. You might want to get the front wheel up and make sure it turns right to left VERY smooth.

[Yammer Dan]

I've found keeping the air in rear low helps me at low speeds. I run about 30 lb and can flatfoot the Beast. I only have a 30" inseam.

[Stanman]

I've found keeping the air in rear low helps me at low speeds. I run about 30 lb and can flatfoot the Beast. I only have a 30" inseam.

 

You can flatfoot wit a 30" inseam? I have the same length of inseam and cannot sit flatfooted. I only run about 22 - 24 lb in the suspension.

If I have to creep behind a vehicle pulling up to a red light it can be quite a challenge to stay straight.

[Yammer Dan]

I could with "Ugly". Haven't really paid that much attention with "New" one. And I might be wrong on settings. That is what I had "New" one set at. I think on "Ugly" it was 25lb rear 8 lb front with no progressives. Getting bikes confused.

[wes0778]

You can flatfoot wit a 30" inseam? I have the same length of inseam and cannot sit flatfooted. I only run about 22 - 24 lb in the suspension.

If I have to creep behind a vehicle pulling up to a red light it can be quite a challenge to stay straight.

 

May be a difference in the seat, itself, but with ALL the air out of the suspension I can almost get both heels down on kbran's 1st Gen. I have a 27" inseam. The other night when I got to ride it, I had no trouble at all. Well I did have trouble finding where to put my feet. Yeah, I missed my RSV floorboards!!!

 

I was impressed with the slow speed handling, seemed much lighter than my RSV or RSTC.

[6m459]

I have never thought of either of mine as particularly tall or top heavy, as 800 lb m/c's go anyways. I have no troubles at parking lot speeds.

 

I wouldn't have bothered repacking the front wheel bearing, I'd have replaced it. Its cheap peace of mind.

 

Brian H.

Edited April 29, 2010 by 6m459
.............and another thing........

[Condor]

I still have fork braces left over from the last group buy.... If you don't have one....you should.

[GaryZ]

My 1985 VR does not feel top heavy when compared to my ZX11 Ninja. The VR has wide handlebars and sits lower to the ground. It turns much tighter and I can do u-turns in the street in front of my house with my feet up. U-turns in the street on my Ninja means duck-walking it around.

 

I suppose "top heavy" is relative to the individual.

 

What bike did you have before the VR?

[84xj1100]

Paul,

 

Just read yer post and perhaps have a little to offer. First of all, if you really look at any Japanese motorcycle they are all topheavy, the degree of which depends on a lot of factors.

 

First let me point out what I learned from a Harley (yeah I know) rider years ago. If you draw an imaginary line from the front axle to the rear axle and look at what's above that on a Japanese bike, compared to what is there on a Harley, you'll see why they are topheavy. I had a student one time that had a really difficult time on our Japanese course bikes and just barely passed the test. Two weeks later she dropped by to show us her new 883 Sportster, which she handled like a pro. The Harley was significantly heavier but that weight was distributed below that imaginary line making it less top heavy and far easier to handle.

 

If you think about that line and picture how much higher you sit (more so if you happen to be taller and/or heavier) on the Venture than you would your XJ for example, and everything else that's above that line it's pretty significant and I would think this would add to a feeling of topheaviness.

 

That being said something else perhaps you should consider is going back to basics. Have you ever had the Canada Safety Council Rider Crse?? If so, then remember the first few lessons that preached to keep you head up look toward the horizon and not directly or even a car or two ahead. This certainly helps with balance.

 

I can't recall if you had mentioned your whether or not your braking system had been de-linked. Although the XJ1100 has the same system (linked front and rear) and you may have been used to it on the XJ, the Venture has what, 100 lbs on her and that may add to your feeling of instability.

 

Hope this helped.....give me a buzz if you want to do coffee again and maybe we could do a little brainstorming.

[friesman]

You can flatfoot wit a 30" inseam? I have the same length of inseam and cannot sit flatfooted. I only run about 22 - 24 lb in the suspension.

If I have to creep behind a vehicle pulling up to a red light it can be quite a challenge to stay straight.

 

I cant flat foot mine either, even with no air in the back shocks and I have a 30 inch inseam. But I do have a Saddlens seat on mine that looks like its about an inch or so taller than stock. I would like to have my OEM seat recovered as I think its a more confoprtable seat, but would miss the removable backrest.

 

Brian

[elmicko]

I'm pretty well "vertically challenged" too and had a heck of a time when I first got my VR. First, when I bought it I hadn't been on a bike in 20 years and then I stepped on an 800 pound, top-heavy monster. I would pucker up and suck a hickey on the seat anytime I had to stop. After a bunch of seat time, those issues started working themselves out.

 

I only have a 29" inseam so I never felt comfortable having to tip-toe the bike at stops, so this winter I pulled the seat off and shaved about 2" out of the padding and narrowed the front of the seat a bit to give me a better angle at the ground when seated. That made a huge difference in the balance of the bike and believe it or not, the seat is more comfortable with some padding removed. It's still plenty cushy too, you may want to look at that option. Also I can now flat-foot the bike when stopped.

[Brake Pad]

Ya don't see anyone using a venture, in the ride like a pro video's, do ya?

:Venture:They like to fall over in tight turns.