I just don't understand

[James Ardrey]

Can't we just get along. I think we should have the right to arm bears. But seriously although this thread is interesting we are headed down a very slippery slope that the insurance companys just love. They love statistics. Statistics show that riding any 2 wheeled vehicle is far more dangerous than driving a cage and if the special interest insurance grps have their way all motorcycles,4wheelers, and many of the things afore mentioned will be banned and their argument is just as valid as the well intentioned here crusading for wearing helmets. I can make a case that we are all stupid for riding such dangerous machines but I'm not going to bore you with the details as if we are honest with ourselves we all know the dangers and many including myself am speaking from experience. Here in Oklahoma we still have a choice if you are over 21. It is ironic that most of the young men and women that are expected to kill and risk their lives serving our country can't own a pistol,drink alcohol or ride without a helmet but that's a discussion for some other time. I rode for years never wearing a helmet and hesitated to ride to a state that required one. I started wearing one regularily in the past yr. because I figure the odds are against me. The longer I ride the better my chances that I could have a serious wreck. I absolutely love the freedom of riding without a helmet and I love the freedom to choose for myself to wear or not to wear. If we are seriously concerned about saving tax payers from paying for our dangerous pastimes then we all should get rid of our motorcycles.

[Guest KitCarson]

Can't we just get along. I think we should have the right to arm bears. But seriously although this thread is interesting we are headed down a very slippery slope that the insurance companys just love. They love statistics. Statistics show that riding any 2 wheeled vehicle is far more dangerous than driving a cage and if the special interest insurance grps have their way all motorcycles,4wheelers, and many of the things afore mentioned will be banned and their argument is just as valid as the well intentioned here crusading for wearing helmets. I can make a case that we are all stupid for riding such dangerous machines but I'm not going to bore you with the details as if we are honest with ourselves we all know the dangers and many including myself am speaking from experience. Here in Oklahoma we still have a choice if you are over 21. It is ironic that most of the young men and women that are expected to kill and risk their lives serving our country can't own a pistol,drink alcohol or ride without a helmet but that's a discussion for some other time. I rode for years never wearing a helmet and hesitated to ride to a state that required one. I started wearing one regularily in the past yr. because I figure the odds are against me. The longer I ride the better my chances that I could have a serious wreck. I absolutely love the freedom of riding without a helmet and I love the freedom to choose for myself to wear or not to wear. If we are seriously concerned about saving tax payers from paying for our dangerous pastimes then we all should get rid of our motorcycles.

Yes we can get along.....actually prefer to , I nor anyone I think really faults you for not wearing a helmet, there are arguments for and against, an extreme on both sides........but I like to stand in front of the bus!!.....Go put on your helmet! Hey I spent six years as one of those military kids you are talking about.......4 years and 10 months of it in combat.........so I am always amazed at most civilians reasoning, such as hey the kids are young enough to die for our country, but cannot have a drink........let me give you a little hint.....might not be able to drink in the Great USA...but once over where ever.........look out!!

Anyway without acting up too much..........one thing military combat will teach you is how to survive........if there is one little tiny piece of gear, or change of method......anything that can help save your bacon, you will accept it eagerly. The discipline and use of all kinds of weapons and gear teach you safety........

Yes there are extremes and if you are riding at night...going 90 miles an hour and hit a deer.........helmet is most likely not going to help you much, thing is if you are in town and going about 50 and the cage pulls out in front of you and you do the big summer-sault over the car and land on your heat......then it will..........or like myself the front end of the bike hit me in the head and actually cracked the helmet. (I was like 25-have more sense now!!)

Bottom line is helmets save lives every day..........yes riding a bike is dangerous.....but anymore so is going to the corner store.......there is no need to live in fear.......just use a little common sense is all.

 

Again...yep we can get along..........and have some friendly banter.......if I ever meet you......I would not say a word to you.......to wear a helmet or not is your choice........I spent some time making sure you have that one.....as for those special interest groups who want to yap.....let them....we had one once during a bass tournament.........we even made the papers.........we were charged with cruel and inhuman treatment of fish.......learned the only power they have is if you pay attention to them and give them power............insurance......yes it is coming........you are going to have to wear a helmet........go buy you a neat one. Kit:stirthepot:

 

Another thing......locally it is the big thing to go buy a bike and adopt the great american dream and run around all the time without a helmet, ride in shorts.....and the big meeting place are bars!! The in thing is to run to a bar and spend the afternoon drinking and watching football...........just about every weekend I will go by some bar with about 50 bikes sitting outside of it........again standing in front of the bus and enjoying it , this is the most stupid thing I have ever seen........want to enjoy your bike.....and life.......go find some responsible other non drinking bikers and get to know them.......they are more fun anyway. Kit

[Condor]

Wow!! This subject has opened up a can of worms..... So I'll toss a worm into the fray just because.... First I think every rider should be able to choose to ride helmetless as a matter of personal freedom. I don't like being told what to do as much as the next guy. I also don't think there should be laws mandating helmet usage.... in any state.

 

Here's what I do think. Leave it up to the insurance company's. Give the rider a choice. Sell a policy that has a premium based on losses for no helmet riders, and another that has premiums based on riders who wear helmets. Of course the non-helmet policy will have a higher premium due to higher accident claims, and visa-versa for helmet wearers. Now......if a rider opts for the lower cost 'helmet' insurance, and has an accident not wearing his or her helmet, the medical part of the insurance is null and void. Seems pretty simple to me. Ya gotta pay to play.

[Midrsv]

Oh what a can of worms I opened. That wasn't my intent. Let me say that I support everyone's right to choose. On this and most topics that limit my choice I am opposed to legislation that limits my freedoms.

 

But back to my original comment, I just don't understand why people take the risk. I understand the arguments for comfort, visibility, etc. However, I also know that there is a Honda Accord that got a new windshield due to my helmeted head contacting it and I am certain I would have suffered serious injury or death had it not been for that helmet.

 

That being said, I'll stand by anyone to support their right to choose. I choose a helmet.

 

Dennis

[yamahamer]

I Not Only Won't Ride Without It But It's Got To Be Dot Or Whats The Point?

 

I Would Rather Look Like A Mushroom Head Than Never Ride Again Because Im Dead

:322::322::322::322:

[Condor]

But back to my original comment, I just don't understand why people take the risk.

 

Pretty simple. They think it looks 'cool', or they like the open feeling, the wind in their hair,....... and bugs in their teeth.... But it's their choice, and not ours to understand.

[Snarley Bill]

like i said before you have no right to do something when it effects the well being of others.like raising my insurance rates,having me and others look at your brains hanging out of your head ,like the family that is left behind or has to wipe the slobber off your mouth after they feed you everyday because your a vegetable.like the person on the back that you should care enough about to make them wear a helmet.like the wife who has to figure out how she's going to work and raise the kids because they no longer have an income.i've heard all these things about peoples rights being taken away.i ought to have the right to run around naked at the mall or throw rocks at the guy next door.we have these big brother laws to protect us from each other.we hired big brother to do the job and although it ain't prefect it sure is better than the aternative,no laws at all.i dumped my bike 40 years ago with my wife on the back.ya i was anti helmet when i was young and stupid.luckily,missouri just passed the helmet law.it tore her shoes off .tore the back out of her ski jacket ,and knocked a hole in th back of her helmet.can't imagine how i would have felt if i would have told her she did'nt have to wear the helmet.just my $10.00 worth.

[nelsonrl]

like i said before you have no right to do something when it effects the well being of others.like raising my insurance rates...

 

So, we should outlaw smoking, junk food and the drivers license of that stupid cage driver that pulled out in front of me Saturday (I was able to stop - barely) ? I wear a helmet all the time but support the choice people have to not wear theirs.

[Thom]

to everybody that says it cost you money because somebody doe's not wear a helmet , i would like to say prove it , not by going to the tv set or the newspaper but by auditing the hospitals and EMS service . i know that it would cost a lot of time and money and most of us don't have it . but many audits where done , when a rider not wearing a helmet has a accident and was legal [ dwi , not have a m/c license , 21 or over and insurance ] doe's not cost you the tax payer and no it doe's not raise the your cost of insurance , we pay insurance too and if the you think you are sharing the cost again wrong , insurance companys can charge me anything they want and they are making a profit , here in Fl. the insurance co.s backed the no helmet law when extra insurance was required by giving money to the no helmet lobbyist ??

do you think a few m/c riders can come up with all that money to change the law in fl. , ya rite .

now on a sad note , in places where m/c are in a large amount , check the out the hospitals and EMS , some of the best there are , and no ,not because the taxpayers have have to pay more , it is because we are more profitable , sick but true ,taxpayer money doe's pay for the upgrade but at the end of the year they make a profit .

think about the real reason why the self rightest force us to do what they think is right , they will come up with facts thats are not true but sound good , i can do the same , and try to force you to not to wear a helmet , there is some good reason not to . but why ?? WHO GAVE ME THE RIGHT to force you to do anything that doe's not effect me , just because you are doing something i don't like WHO GAVE ME THE RIGHT ??

i am a old m/c rider , i started riding before helmet laws , i have never not had a bike for more than 2 years since i started riding and had a lot of accidents , i know how good a helmet is , i have used one many times , i made my sons wear a helmet until they moved out of my house , i am pro helmet and leather rider , i would die before i would tell somebody to take off there helmet and never berate some one who did not .

i really like this site and think it fun , i like it because a lot of the members are oldfarts like me .

i think it is fun about the little war between 1gs and 2gs or us and other makes of m/c . but Don has rules about politics and other things , it great to say a helmet or leathers saved you but lets not be self rightest about it and please don't berate or force anybody to do something you think is right , i may be stupid but i am over 21 and i would ask you for the respect and no matter who you are i allways will GIVE YOU MINE .

i am sorry to all of you that have read this but i thank you too .

thom

 

[royalstarjac]

I Am In The Habit Of Wearing My Helmet All Of The Time. I Am Not Going To Tell Others They Have To, But I Would Like It If They Did.

 

I Don't Think That Passing Mandatory Safety Regulations Is Taking Away Anyones Rights. It Also Saves The Rest Of Us From Paying The Bills Of Those That Are Willing To Take Unnecessary Risks. I Am Talking About More Than Just Helmets. I Am Sure All Of You Can Think Of Valid Examples, Yes Even Those That Don't Want To Wear A Helmet.

O C

 

Using this sort of logic could get motorcycling as a whole outlawed.

We go down a dangerous path when we start passing laws to protect people from themselves or for the "cost to society". JMO.-Jack

[Snarley Bill]

don't see any disrespect here just an open conversation.seems like the ones who don't believe in helmet laws are on the defensive ,wonder why? can of worms,don't think so,people got to disagree once in awhile,or we would all be just alke.

[Orrin]

You Know, That You Can Prove Almost Any Point By Using Extreme Examples.

 

If You Are A Foot Ball Player, You Have To Wear A Helmet Or You Don't Play. It Is A Recreation Just Like Motorcycling. Think About It!!!!!!!!!!!!

O C

[Thom]

Using this sort of logic could get motorcycling as a whole outlawed.

We go down a dangerous path when we start passing laws to protect people from themselves or for the "cost to society". JMO.-Jack

 

jack , you would be surprised how many times that has been proposed in different states , we have a group here that has tried to make m/c.s illegal in a lot of the states and want the helmet law back so there will be less m/c riders and than it would be easier to outlaw m/c - quote [ on the Fl.state house floor ] the State of Fl. needs have a strict helmet law , have a high tax on m/cs so m/c will stop coming to Fl. , Fl. do not need or want m/cs on the roads and highways , end quote . i am very thankful that there are less and less of those people but i still read about making m/c illegal , the next time i see one those i'll try to copy it and post it , last year i saw some people holding signs trying to outlaw m/cs during bike week

[Guest KitCarson]

I used to ride a bike just like most use a car. I was in the military when I got my first real street bike. I was allowed to road race by my father as young as the age of 12. I did that up to age 15. At age 15 I would back off the corner in the power slide and get beat!! We learn as we get older......even at age 15 I knew if I push it just that little bit more, I will crash and burn.......so common sense starts to take hold and you start getting beat.

Anyway I rode my Harley Sportster everywhere, and one day I was late going in to the base. I was pouring it on......running 85 t0 90 mph and about 300 feet from the security gates a dog ran out in the road in front of me. I hit the rear brake, slid the bike, let off of it......slid it again......let off of it.....working hard to slow it down........the dog was almost across the road and saw me and froze......so I swerved to the left.....the dog at the last minute did too!! I hit the dog mid center with the front tire and forks. I was doing about 50 by the time I hit the dog. The impact killed the dog instantly, flipped my bike up and over and it started tumbling, All I could do was to grab my legs behind my knees and tumble with it, by the time it was all over I was about 50 feet from the guard gate and I was lying in the right hand ditch with the bike about ten feet away. There was blood all over me, some of it mine. Some of it the dogs. If you have never been in something like this....you do not think straight at that moment. I was worried about my bike......I did not know I was hurt......one of the marines put me in handcuffs and sat me down........my left knee was all torn up...I did not know it.......I was pissed off at the marine!! When it all settled down and the Base med team took me to the emergency room and my bike was loaded up and later I looked at my helmet. It had a big gouge out of it, and the best I can tell is when that bike tumbled forward and thew me off the first revolution......and came down on top of me......I do remember seeing the front forks......they hit my helmet...took a big gouge out of it, this would have been my head and instant death had I not had a helmet on. Nuff said about that one.

 

I had still not learned my lesson I suppose!! Almost a year later I had a brand new Harley Electra Glide........and my accident with this was kinda like the one Eck has told about. I was coming off the exit ramp from one interstate to the other one........it was raining and wet in my case and yes(I was going way too fast) the front tire hit the yellow painted line that marks the shoulder of the road......tire went out from under me....again I tried........I was into a slide to the right side , guardrail coming up fast!! I even had enough sense to take my left hand and pull the front end as far right as I could and open the throttle in second gear......thing is this big bike just did not have the power to bring it back up.....so I hit the guardrail. and then the other one......then back to the first one.......do not ask me how, but I managed to be sitting on top of the bike as I bounced around.......it ground the left side of the bike off.....tore up everything on the left side of it.........I walked away from that one with nothing but my feelings hurt. Helmet never even came into play......but I had one on!!

 

I seem to have obtained a little sense after that one!! I have rode a bike since then steady.......have never dropped one again....I do not trust turn signals....I wait....watch to see if those front tires actually turn.......I watch for gravel........sand.........painted lines........do not ride in the rain unless I get caught in it ......soon as I can I get out of it.....do not ride after dark.......deer varmints..........

 

I know a lot of you do not like rules.....regulations..........hey know what, I do not either........I am a rebel and rascal at heart.........but I would urge all of you to wear a helmet........it is only common sense......I do not care how much experience you have.....or how good you are......there is always that unavoidable circumstance we all may or may not ever be caught up in. In my opinion it sure would be wise to have a helmet on if it ever does happen .

Kit

[Eugene]

don't see any disrespect here just an open conversation.seems like the ones who don't believe in helmet laws are on the defensive ,wonder why? can of worms,don't think so,people got to disagree once in awhile,or we would all be just alke.

 

Agreed - I see a good healthy discussion - not a can of worms and no personal attacks - as befits this site!!!

 

Cheers

 

Eugene

[Orrin]

Kit, Thanks For The Post

[GeorgeS]

I went down in 1960, in a parking lot, at 10 mph. Helmet saved me from head injury.

 

I have 3 friends, who, are alive today, cause they were wearing.

 

It keeps my head warm.

 

It keeps the rain off of my face, ( I live in Seattle )

 

Its a good place to mount my earphones.

 

I have been hit by many flying objects over the last 50 years, on various parts of my body while rideing. I can remember several that would have been a disaster if they had hit my face or eyes, without haveing the Helemet Face Shield in place.

 

Anyway, the UP Side far outweighs the Down Side.

 

I would wear a helmet irregardless of what the law says , one way or the other.

[bear]

I have been riding for 43 yrs and always wear a helmet, we do not have a helmet law here but I still wear one.

To each their own I guess, but mine will be on my head.

bear:322:

[Snarley Bill]

well sounds like this is a no win situation .probably enough said on this topic,before there is a major blowout.one last word.i was anti helmet in the early 60's when missouri passed the helmet law.i've done about everything you can do with a motorcycle.motocrossed ,dragraced,enduroed,a little trials,professional hill climbing,a little sport bike riding,built motorcycle race engines,and still do,so i think i know a little about the sport.like ive been doing it for close to 55 years.ive seen friends die on motorcycles ,i've had lots of crashes on bikes some accidental some do to my own stupidity.i have been awful lucky.i just try to pass on some wisdom that i have gained over the years on the helmet thing.i hate to see anyone hurt because they play the odds that it won't happen to me.i quit smoking ,i take vitamins,i eat healthy food ,and try to take reasonably good care of myself,because i came to realize that it can happen to me and it is going to happen to me, but i still have a few more things that i want to do before the inevitable happens.just think of it this way when i'm on the road i have to trust all these people coming out of side streets or making left turns coming at me. i do it 100's of times every time i ride.sooner or later one of the ones you trust to see you is going to do the inevitable and make the big mistake you were trusting them not to.it's happened to me.luckily my experience got me through it alive.no matter how good you think you are some one can eat you alive.so before you tell me about not wearing helmets it's your life that your bragging about putting on the line not mine.nuff said.

[ErRn97RSTD]

Just my 2 cents. I'm new to motorcycling this year and I live in New Jersey which has a mandatory helmet law. I also work at a Emergency Room/Trauma Center as a nurse. During the summer we see alot of m/c accident victims come through. They all have had helmets on, thankfully, but I could only imagine how many fatalities we would have had if the riders were not wearing helmets. Don't get me wrong, I am totally in favor of the right to choose, but I am the one taking care of these riders and they all could have been alot worse had they not been wearing helmets. My only dilema with not wearing a helmet is the families. Myself and other medical staff have to tell the families what happened to their loved ones, be it good or bad. You have no idea how tough it is to tell a family member their loved one died. I can only say to those that don't wear helmets think of your families before getting on a bike without wearing a helmet, think of what they might have to go through, god forbid, you were in an accident without a helmet. Unless you have already talked with them about a living will, your wants while in a coma, whether they should pull the plug on you, etc, etc... Just think of how it would affect them, afterall they are your loved ones. Didn't want to put such a negative theme to this but reality isn't always good. I wish all of you a safe ride. Again, just my 2 cents.~~Carl

[Older...]

The wife and I both drive our own motorcycles. Sometimes we wear our helmets sometimes we want the wind in our hair. Sometimes she wears hers, I go in the wind. Sometimes I wear mine, she goes in the wind. We have a great relationship, a side by side mutual love and respect relationship. We love pro choice. Pro choice is like Respecting Other's Opinions at all times. It's like listening, understanding, and...

[James Ardrey]

Now that we've all qualified our positions and gone to great lengths to prove we're right because all humans believe their right. I have but one question? Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? They are not usually synonymous. I'm not sure I spelled that right. At this moment i'm choosing to be happy so I don't care if I'm right or wrong. Sounds like an old Motown tune- If loving you is wrong I don't want to be right.

[Guest KitCarson]

I had nine service calls in the Columbia area today. Driving around between stops I counted all the motorcycles I saw on the road. I saw 37 bikes during the day. Three were wearing a helmet........34 were not.......age of the riders was from college kid to an old kid like me. So the score was 34/3 No helmets won! Kit

[DragonRider]

Required reading before getting on a motorcycle............

 

The importantance of proper riding apparel..... - VentureRider.Org

 

[Condor]

I had nine service calls in the Columbia area today. Driving around between stops I counted all the motorcycles I saw on the road. I saw 37 bikes during the day. Three were wearing a helmet........34 were not.......age of the riders was from college kid to an old kid like me. So the score was 34/3 No helmets won! Kit

 

Nice observation Kit. Now, let me ask you this. How many deaths occured over the last year where the rider was not wearing a helmet vs. those that were? Wonder who the winners are now? There's always a flip side to every statistic.......