Brake upgrade to R1/R6 calipers?

[kbert777]

Can somebody elaborate which calipers can be used to upgrade the front and rear calipers of a MKII Venture? Which years R1 or R6 are a direct bolt on using the same disk position and diameter. Also, which modifications need to be done to the brake hoses or which hoses are used as a replacement? Do the Ventureline chrome caliper covers fit over the updated calipers?

 

How is the brake feel with the stock master cylinders after the caliper upgrade? Any modifications necessary to the master cylinders? What models could be used?

 

Thanks in advance, I know it's a lot of questions, but some of you have done the upgrade and might want to share with the group.

 

Klaus

[Thom]

Sky Doc has all of the parts you need to do the upgrade , I did it , than I delinked the brakes a year later and Earl sold me all the parts , sure made it a lot eazyer , check the classifieds or pm him , you will not regret it ,

[skydoc_17]

Hey Thom,

Thank you for those kind words!

Klaus, I have compiled a kit that allows you to transform your 1980's brake system to the 21st Century with EVERY part you need for the VR to R1 Brake Swap. You can purchase the entire kit or any parts you need. Please check this link and if you have questions, please feel free to PM me:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=2446&title=first-gen281986-1993-29-r1-caliper-swap-and-4-stainless-steel-brake-lines-21&cat=6

 

Thanks for your interest Klaus, and thanks again for the props, Thom.

Earl

[mother]

once you have done the upgrade, you will be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner. this upgrade has been the biggest bang for the buck. i cant believe a few years ago i wasted money on buying caliper rebuild kits for the stock calipers and still had so-so braking. the rebuild kits cost me twice the amount that buying 3 r1 calipers and now i have real brakes. i am still using the stock master cylinders and linked brakes.

cheers, Scott

[a1bummer]

I'm assuming those kits only fit the MKII, not the MKI? Seeing as how the front forks are different. Are the rear disks and calipers the same on the MKI and MKII? I'm assuming they would also be different.

[Condor]

Can somebody elaborate which calipers can be used to upgrade the front and rear calipers of a MKII Venture?

Klaus

 

 

Klaus, The best way I've found to is to compare the direction of the mounting bolts. The R1-R6 calipers are available all the time on Ebay. If you check out the pics you'll see that some have the mounting bolts coming in from the side like the OEMs and the others look more blockish and the mounting bolts come down from top of the caliper. The years run all over the place and are confusing. Either the blue or the gold dots will work. On your '89 it's just a plug and play as you have the correct spread on the fork mounting holes. No need to change a thing. If you get shopping Ebay you'll find some grreat buys. A few sellers are asking big bucks, but after awhile they finally get tired of no bids and put them out a minimum starting bid. Generally you can find mint sets for $25-$35 bucks when that happens. They are not rare.... I've also picked up EBC-FA252 HH pads off ebay for $20 bucks a set. You just have to patient. So if you can take the time the mod can be done for $75-$80 bucks...

[jasonm.]

Note: the R1's rotors are thinner. Thus, Yamaha to save weight made the calipers slim as possible to fit these rotors. Thusly you MAY have to take some material off where the rotors run and center the calipers using washers. Please correct me if I am wrong. I used FJ1200 calipers because they use same pads. But I still had to remove some aluminum with dremel tool.

[Squeeze]

Sorry, what Sense does it make to use the same(FJ1200) Calipers as the MKII already utilize to UPGRADE the Brakes ?

 

 

btw

It's right, the R1 use slimmer Rotors, but i never heard anyone having to shim the R1 Calipers. I've done about 5 of those Conversions, but they always where just bolt on.

[Condor]

Note: the R1's rotors are thinner. Thus, Yamaha to save weight made the calipers slim as possible to fit these rotors. Thusly you MAY have to take some material off where the rotors run and center the calipers using washers. Please correct me if I am wrong. I used FJ1200 calipers because they use same pads. But I still had to remove some aluminum with dremel tool.

 

I used MKII rotors with the R1 Calipers and they worked fine....

[warthogcrewchief]

I plan on buying Sky Doc's kit sometime this next year...after I get my VR running well AND the Approving Official allows me to purchase more toys...err... parts for my bike.

 

I do have a question, can one use the same pads that are designed for the MKII VR? Or do I need to find pads that are designed for an R1, and if so, which years?? I never did figure that out.

[Condor]

I plan on buying Sky Doc's kit sometime this next year...after I get my VR running well AND the Approving Official allows me to purchase more toys...err... parts for my bike.

 

I do have a question, can one use the same pads that are designed for the MKII VR? Or do I need to find pads that are designed for an R1, and if so, which years?? I never did figure that out.

 

The R1's take the EBC FA252 pad. The FA123 fits the MKII caliper. I you buy Earl's kit I think he's already added new pads??

[jasonm.]

Haha kids, the reasons and timing(time warp) when I did mine with FJ1200 is because I am way head of you guys. THE R1 did not exist when I did this. Also the FJ1200 has same pistons both sides L-caliper vs. R.caliper The MKII-1300s do not. Thus one side wears faster that the other when delinked w/o the FJ calipers. ...aka uneven breaking. my pads don't lie and my calper pistons do not stick. Also , I suggest you look closer after putting the R1 calipers on. AGAIN, our rotors a way thicker and can rub the caliper. I say when doing the conversion put on the calipers w/o pads. no rubbing, then great. But, I am not the only one to see this rubbing.

Edited April 19, 2010 by jasonm.

[Condor]

Haha kids, the reasons and timing(time warp) when I did mine with FJ1200 is because I am way head of you guys. THE R1 did not exist when I did this. Also the FJ1200 has same pistons both sides L-caliper vs. R.caliper The MKII-1300s do not. Thus one side wears faster that the other when delinked w/o the FJ calipers. ...aka uneven breaking. my pads don't lie and my calper pistons do not stick. Also , I suggest you look closer after putting the R1 calipers on. AGAIN, our rotors a way thicker and can rub the caliper. I say when doing the conversion put on the calipers w/o pads. no rubbing, then great. But, I am not the only one to see this rubbing.

 

Runing R1's and don't have a problem... No rubing and the bike straightline stops every time.... with standard linked set up and MKII rotors... If you know anyone who's experiencing rubbing I'd suggest they check for warped rotors. Also the MKII calipers have the same size pistons... L&R... inside/outside, and the pad size is the same as the R1. The backing plate is different. The R1's do have different sized pistons. Smaller and larger. Which gives a much better feel when braking.... Maybe with the FJ calipers you might need a thinner rotor, but with the FJR you do not...

Edited April 20, 2010 by Condor

[jasonm.]

Oh grasshopper....check the manual. the stock 1st gen 1300 calipers use 2 different size pistons. Left caliper has 32mm, right caliper has 34mm. Because the right is originally controlled by the right master cyl. Bigger pistons lessen the ratio of force. Yanaha did not want too much front brake. Grab your old calipers and check. FJ1200 has 32mm all around, that was my reasoning back then. AND with delinked,5/8 frnt. master & SS lines I have a great feel and far better than stock stopping. The R1 calipers are very efficient and I believe you can delink and not change the front master. But, I don't think you get what I am saying about the caliper touching the rotor. This has nothing to do with warped rotors. The stock rotors for the Venture are 7mm thick as the R1's are barely 5mm. If your calipers are not centered over the rotor...they can touch the R1 caliper sides. Yes, 2mm makes a difference. Yes, I have R1 rotors on another non-R1 Yamaha. So the above is all true. Others on the "other Venture site" have noted this rubbing. And dremeled the excess away. Maybe R1 rortors are closer to being centered from the beginning than the FJ rotors I have. But, If you never checked this. The rotor will rub the extra aluminum off in 50-100 miles anyway. Or damage the rotor. If you want to be careful and do the check I suggest the first time...fine. It's your ride.

Edited April 20, 2010 by jasonm.

[CrazyHorse]

R1/R6 pistons are different sizes also one is smaller then the other so it keeps your pads wearing evenly the smaller piston pushes out slightly sooner. I would only look for the blue star calipers of 98- 2001 and I think R6 go a couple extra years past that. The gold stars are aluminum blue are steel. Here's what you need to look for on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-99-00-01-2001-YAMAHA-YZF-R1-FRONT-BRAKE-CALIPERS-OEM-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem19bb5083c6QQitemZ110516798406QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Edited April 20, 2010 by CrazyHorse

[Condor]

Oh grasshopper Others on the "other Venture site" have noted this rubbing. And dremeled the excess away. Maybe R1 rortors are closer to being centered from the beginning than the FJ rotors I have. But, If you never checked this. The rotor will rub the extra aluminum off in 50-100 miles anyway. Or damage the rotor. If you want to be careful and do the check I suggest the first time...fine. It's your ride.

 

Yep, it's my ride and I don't see any need to change. Despite what your saying the R1 calipers center perfectly on the MKII rotors. No rubbing of aluminum whatsoever. Swap out those old style FJ calipers when you have a chance and give it a try. Adding R1's to MKII's has been around for a few years. It's not a new mod. There have been a few done by members of this board. You may belong to another board, but this one, and the info available on it, suits me fine. If there was as big a problem as you discribe, I'm sure it would have reared it ugly head long ago. So far not a wimper...

PS... I'm nobodys Grasshopper.......

[steve crossley]

this spring i went for skydocs 17s r1 caliper and line up grades. the calipers had been fully redone and also new pads . with stainless steel lines .top grade stuff. the diskes had been replaced the year before with stainless ones from ( braking) co. i also delinked them . feed back at the lever and foot is a vast improvement. i wish i had done it long ago! this site is lucky to have Earl involved with us!. he has the right stuff. at a good price and will go out of his way to help. thanks Earl.

[Squeeze]

Maybe there's someone who had a Beer too much last night ?

[Guest seuadr]

just wanted to add here, i bought earl's kit as well as the delink kit and SS brake lines. this thing stops so fast i think i could stunt it if i had the nerts (which i don't!)

 

i've been checking regularly the caliper wear, rotor wear, and for any rubbing. nothing. I've got the blue star r6's.

[kbert777]

Thanks for all the comments, this should help me on my quest...

 

Let me add that I don't have a problem with the kit Earl is offering, with a set of freshly rebuilt calipers it is a great deal. I am trying to do a few upgrades on a budget and I have pretty good access to salvage bikes and let's face it, sport bikes like the R1 and R6 usually don't end up in the hands of experienced riders...

I also have access to brake hose machinery with a current DOT certification and can make hoses for personal use relatively inexpensive.

 

After a few test runs with the bike fully loaded and the trailer behind it, the stock brakes, even with EBC HH pads, feel blissfully inadequate.

 

Klaus

[skydoc_17]

For the members that have purchased my entire VR to R1 Brake Swap, I thank you very much. For those members that are on a budget, I have sold just the "custom" pieces that I machine here at "my little shop by the creek". I would never begrudge anyone for shopping for a deal on calipers, brake pads, or brake lines. I compiled the VR to R1 swap kit to make it a "plug and play" install for people that don't want to be bothered with purchasing used parts and reconditioning them to like new. Every caliper I sell is disassembled, checked for damage and excessive wear, Ultrasonically cleaned, reassembled with all new seal kits and hardware, and top of the line EBC HH Sintered pads are installed if you so desire. The splitter adapter bracket allows you to install the Stainless Steel Lines I supply in the stock location with a clean "custom" look.

Is it possible to purchase a set of used R1/R6 calipers off of Ebay or at a junk yard and install them unrebuilt to your stock lines and NOT delink your braking system and hold the splitter in place with "zip ties" and not install Stainless Steel brake lines, and use organic brake pads? Of course it is! Does that compare to a set of completely rebuilt R1/R6 Calipers Connected to Stainless Steel brake lines on a delinked brake system with the Vmax splitter and adapter bracket installed? HARDLY. I admire the members that make the effort to upgrade their bikes in any way, and have shared information with any member, weather they have purchased an item from me or not, and will continue to do so.

This is really more about the friendship and the sharing of ideas with a group of people that have the same motorcycle for me than it is "getting rich" off of the Kits I sell. When you factor in the amount of time it takes me to machine parts, and rebuild these calipers, it is more a "labor of love" than a viable business, I assure you. As always, If I can help anyone with parts or if you have questions, please feel free to PM me.

Earl

[jasonm.]

The stock calipers on the Ventures are not dead centered. My FJ calipers are identical to the Ventures but w/different pistons and less rotor cut out. Like the R1 calipers. Less cut out makes rubbing a possibility. And my FJ units were like new from a crashed bike with 10k on it. Yet had to be centered(less rotor cut out). So I am glad to hear the R1 calipers center right up for you guys. FYI- you cannot hear the rubbing while riding if it was to happen. Remember nothing is made perfect all the time. So, The 1 or 2 mm of aluminum rubs off the caliper happens rather quick. Others have told me different about the centering and some shimming is requied for R1's. Last year I had a chance to get R1 calipers cheap. I had them in my hands at a swap meet. $30 per set. Yes, 4 calipers for $60. I probably should have gone for them. Reason I did not is because I just got new rotors and new pads a few years back. And to throw away the new pads($70) is too wasteful to me right now. Maybe I will get R1's in the furure. Just one question to be sure...WOULD my 5/8 master be too much on the R1 calipers? I think some yamahas(ex:FJR) do run 5/8 masters with these. Lastly, I am not trying to give anyone a "hard time" or scare them. I have done numerous brake conversions on different bikes. Done many different things on bikes that improve them. Just pointing out some concerns that others have noted. No need to be defensive...

Edited April 21, 2010 by jasonm.

[charlie h.]

Hi All,

Has anyone put the blue star calipers on a 1st gen 1983 Venture yet? I picked some up cheap, and look, the bolt span on the forks are 3.25 inches while the calipers (blue star) are 4 inches. Evidently MKII Ventures from 86-93 have a 4 Inch span. If I make an adaptor bracket for the lower hole, will i be able to use the newer FJR1300 calipers on my 1983 Venture Royale? I really want to delink the two sides and upgrade the braking system, I got the FJR master cly. too, and also two stainless brake lines. I am going to use the dual hose setup off an 82 XV920 though for the swap, as the stainless lines are too short, and going on my RD350 cafe racer, hehe. Also, I am going to plug the hose to the front caliper on the rear master cyl, and am going to use a 1\8 in. brass plug. It seems to thread into it after the tube fitting is unscrewed. Thanks in advance!

Charlie h.

[Snaggletooth]

Hi Charlie,

 

That is a project I'm working on for my '84. You will need to swap out the front forks for a set of MKII forks for the right mounting configuration on the lower legs. You can use the MKII calipers, or step up to the R1 calipers. The rotor diameter will also be larger (298 mm me thinks off hand) so the MKII rotors will be needed also, or an aftermarket with the correct mounting bolt specs.

 

If you chose the R1 calipers you will need different brake lines to fit properly also.

[bongobobny]

Yah!! Do yourself a favor and pick up a set of MK2 forks, install progressive springs, and use SS lines and change out your rotors, which you will have to do anyway if you McGuiver adapter plates to fit your MK1 setup.

 

The Electric anti dive units go to a relay triggered by the brake lights, but with new Progressive springs you may not need to hook up the antidive at all...