Bad battery and blown fuse

[gibvel]

Got a new battery about a year or year and a half ago. Everything seemed fine and then last year, towards the end of the season, I had the flat on the way to Denver. Took it down to the dealer there to have a new tire put on and ,when I went to get it, the battery barely turned the bike over reset the trip meter when it cranks slow. Since then I've experienced slow cranking a couple times. I took the battery to the Interstate place and had it tested and they said "the batter tests fine". However, before taking it in I had it on the trickle charger and, since I'd taken it out of the bike I had it in the warm building before taking it over.

 

I kept it on the trickle charger all winter. First time I tried to start it about 4 weeks ago it cranked slow and reset the trip meter. Put it back on the charger and 2 weeks ago it started well, no trip meter reset. Road about 60 miles. Left it off the charger just to see what would happen.

 

Fast forward to today. Went to ride this morning and started the bike before putting anything on. Bike cranked slow. Nothing on the speedo, fuel, trip meter. I've blown the fuse for that before so I'm thinking it's the fuse but would the battery and slow cranking blow that fuse? I'm still thinking I got a dud battery and that, when cold, it doesn't act like it does when warm.

 

I know, in another post someone mentioned something about a power connection behind the battery box so I'm going to check that out as well.

Edited April 12, 2010 by gibvel

[skydoc_17]

Hey Mark,

You might want to have a look at your starter motor. It could be drawing so many amps that it is blowing the fuse. Also have a look at the ground wire from the battery to the engine. I have seen these installed over a painted surface and the ground is in fact, not a ground at all.

Here is a link to a new Top Quality, Maint. Free, Sealed battery for you Second Gen:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=2743&title=deka-etx-20l-sealed-agm-battery&cat=7

 

Hope this helps,

Earl

[gibvel]

Hey Mark,

You might want to have a look at your starter motor. It could be drawing so many amps that it is blowing the fuse. Also have a look at the ground wire from the battery to the engine. I have seen these installed over a painted surface and the ground is in fact, not a ground at all.

Here is a link to a new Top Quality, Maint. Free, Sealed battery for you Second Gen:

 

http://www.venturerider.org/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=2743&title=deka-etx-20l-sealed-agm-battery&cat=7

 

Hope this helps,

Earl

 

Somehow I knew, when I saw who posted, I'd get a link to the Deka battery classified. I was looking at that the other day though so we'll see.

 

Yeah, I thought about the ground wire. Right now I've got the horn bracket installed with that connection and I'm wondering if that's vibrating things loose. I'm going to check that and all the connections.

 

When on just off of the trickle charger it starts things pretty well lately so I'm not convinced it would be the starter motor.

 

Thanks for the help

Mark

[Squidley]

Mark,

I know many here will not like what I am about to say, but Interstate batteries are junk! I have used them in the past and had 2 of them puke out within a couple of years. The Deka batteries have been around a long time and I have heard very good things about them. I will be buying 2 of them 1 for the Shovelhead and 1 for the '99. I would replace the battery and see what happens, doesn't sound like yours in worth a crap

[gibvel]

Mark,

I know many here will not like what I am about to say, but Interstate batteries are junk! I have used them in the past and had 2 of them puke out within a couple of years. The Deka batteries have been around a long time and I have heard very good things about them. I will be buying 2 of them 1 for the Shovelhead and 1 for the '99. I would replace the battery and see what happens, doesn't sound like yours in worth a crap

 

Yeah, after seeing some of the comments about them on here I am starting to wonder myself. I'm definitely going to take it out and take it into the Interstate battery place here in town and have them check it in it's present condition. If I can get some of my money back on it, so be it. If not I'll give them the battery back and a piece of my mind as well (although I have little of the latter to spare ).

 

Thanks Brad!

[Squidley]

I'm here for you Brudder!

I have a Deka battery in my '92 Chevy Wagon, probably about 4 or 5 years old right now. That battery doesn't hesitate a second to spin right over, and spin fast. Like mentioned thats what I'll be putting in my bikes from now on

[LilBeaver]

While replacing the battery sounds like it may be in order, and as earl said - check the grounds to make sure they are clean and definitely check that starter area since that could be directly related to your problem.

 

The next things that I would do would be to go ahead and do a check of the electrical system on the bike by doing a few things:

1) Start the bike and while running check the voltage at either the battery (or some other source you can get leads on - like the accessory plug that hangs out right by the battery).

If memory serves me correctly (the manual is on my home pooter, so forgive me if my value is slightly off - but order of magnitude is the important thing here) the service manual says that it should read ~ 13.4 V at a moderately revved engine speed. If it is dramatically under or over you have a problem. If it is over, then you likely have a regulator/rectifier problem and/or an issue with a ground somewhere. If it is under (say ~12 or below) then the next thing I would do would be check the resistance on the stator. This procedure is outlined in the service manual and can be done in two accessible places.

 

Places to checking the resistance of the stator (all done with the bike off): -- The resistance is listed in the service manual and do not recall exactly what the values are (I think they are on the order of .2-.3 ohms -- BUT look it up, because my memory on this is quite faint)

- The white plug that is located dead center below the battery (probably covered in road grime and crap, but there - I promise)

- The plug where the stator plugs into. There are 5 pins, a row of 2 and a row of 3. The row of 3 have the leads that come in from the stator and can be checked there.

 

Another thing to check would be the harness where the regulator/rectifier unit pluggs in (the thing that gets in the way when you are trying to get your hand on the Oil filter to change it). Loosen the R/R unit (2 bolts on either side) then disconnect the plug (on top of the unit) and look for any signs of burned/scorched marks on either the harness or the R/R unit itself.

 

There are 3 grounding locations (that I can think of) that you could check. The main one is on the neck of the bike, under the plastic cover on the right hand side of the bike, below the ignition and in front of the fuel tank. 2nd is where you have your horn grounded at. 3rd, there is a ground on the radio unit under the fairing (I highly doubt this one has anything to do with your problem, but for completeness I'll include that here).

 

Oh yea, something else to check is corrosion/muck around and in the fuse box - especially the main 30A fuse located behind the cover plate that is adjacent to where the passenger's left ankle would be.

 

HOPEFULLY your problem is a simple battery issue, but this ought to give you some other things to check.

 

Hopefully you got something useful out of this post.

 

Keep asking if you need help.

 

:080402gudl_prv:

[gibvel]

While replacing the battery sounds like it may be in order, and as earl said - check the grounds to make sure they are clean and definitely check that starter area since that could be directly related to your problem.

 

The next things that I would do would be to go ahead and do a check of the electrical system on the bike by doing a few things:

1) Start the bike and while running check the voltage at either the battery (or some other source you can get leads on - like the accessory plug that hangs out right by the battery).

If memory serves me correctly (the manual is on my home pooter, so forgive me if my value is slightly off - but order of magnitude is the important thing here) the service manual says that it should read ~ 13.4 V at a moderately revved engine speed. If it is dramatically under or over you have a problem. If it is over, then you likely have a regulator/rectifier problem and/or an issue with a ground somewhere. If it is under (say ~12 or below) then the next thing I would do would be check the resistance on the stator. This procedure is outlined in the service manual and can be done in two accessible places.

 

Places to checking the resistance of the stator (all done with the bike off): -- The resistance is listed in the service manual and do not recall exactly what the values are (I think they are on the order of .2-.3 ohms -- BUT look it up, because my memory on this is quite faint)

- The white plug that is located dead center below the battery (probably covered in road grime and crap, but there - I promise)

- The plug where the stator plugs into. There are 5 pins, a row of 2 and a row of 3. The row of 3 have the leads that come in from the stator and can be checked there.

 

Another thing to check would be the harness where the regulator/rectifier unit pluggs in (the thing that gets in the way when you are trying to get your hand on the Oil filter to change it). Loosen the R/R unit (2 bolts on either side) then disconnect the plug (on top of the unit) and look for any signs of burned/scorched marks on either the harness or the R/R unit itself.

 

There are 3 grounding locations (that I can think of) that you could check. The main one is on the neck of the bike, under the plastic cover on the right hand side of the bike, below the ignition and in front of the fuel tank. 2nd is where you have your horn grounded at. 3rd, there is a ground on the radio unit under the fairing (I highly doubt this one has anything to do with your problem, but for completeness I'll include that here).

 

Oh yea, something else to check is corrosion/muck around and in the fuse box - especially the main 30A fuse located behind the cover plate that is adjacent to where the passenger's left ankle would be.

 

HOPEFULLY your problem is a simple battery issue, but this ought to give you some other things to check.

 

Hopefully you got something useful out of this post.

 

Keep asking if you need help.

 

:080402gudl_prv:

 

Thanks,

 

I'll check those things. I doubt it's the rectifier because I'm getting about 13.8V with the bike running. At least when I put the battery back in last fall after having Interstate check it.

 

I was going to check the connectors on the Rectifier a couple weeks ago when I read the other "battery issue" post. Unfortunately other things came up and I totally forgot that. Thanks for the reminder.

 

I'm going to check all the connections I can find.

[LilBeaver]

Thanks,

 

I'll check those things. I doubt it's the rectifier because I'm getting about 13.8V with the bike running. At least when I put the battery back in last fall after having Interstate check it.

...

 

I'm going to check all the connections I can find.

 

So long as you still get that voltage, you are right on target - and with that you can be relatively safe in ruling out the stator as well.

 

With the R/R connection, if it actually has an intermittent connection due to a bad connection via the pin, you ought to see some discoloration on the connector but if you have a steady voltage and you simply aren't charging - sounds like a battery issue is more likely (and possibly the starter deal that Earl had mentioned).

 

Some QD electrical cleaner and some time certainly can't hurt (as long as you keep it out of your eyes).

[gibvel]

A bit of corrosion on the battery positive connector but most of it was clean. Cleaned the positive terminal up anyway.

 

Checked the fuses. Pulled them all ohmed them and they were all good. Quite a bit of road grime in there though. Put the fuses back in and turned the key. I do have all the dash stuff now.

 

Still more sluggish, turning over, than I'm used to but started. At a nice choked idle the charging system was right at 13.98 volts. Ground connector at the engine was tight.

[LilBeaver]

Sounds like checking that starting motor (somehow) is probably the next step (since you have sort of addressed the battery issue).

[gibvel]

Sounds like checking that starting motor (somehow) is probably the next step (since you have sort of addressed the battery issue).

 

Actually, can't say that I've addressed the battery issue. When fresh off the charger the bike cranks over like I'm used to. If it sits for a week or 2 then it cranks more slowly. Think that may point more to the battery than anything else. But I'm going to check all the other stuff anyway so I don't waste my money on a battery if it's something else.

 

I think the issue with the lack of dash graphics was more an issue of the fuses not making good contact. Kind of a diversion.

 

Okay, where, exactly is the starter motor and/or the electrical connections to it.

 

EDIT:

 

Found the starter motor in the service manual. I'm assuming there is only a positive lead and the negative is supplied by the bolts that go through the housing and into the engine?

Edited April 13, 2010 by gibvel

[LilBeaver]

Actually, can't say that I've addressed the battery issue. When fresh off the charger the bike cranks over like I'm used to. If it sits for a week or 2 then it cranks more slowly. Think that may point more to the battery than anything else. But I'm going to check all the other stuff anyway so I don't waste my money on a battery if it's something else.

 

I think the issue with the lack of dash graphics was more an issue of the fuses not making good contact. Kind of a diversion.

 

Okay, where, exactly is the starter motor and/or the electrical connections to it.

 

EDIT:

 

Found the starter motor in the service manual. I'm assuming there is only a positive lead and the negative is supplied by the bolts that go through the housing and into the engine?

 

 

I have not looked carefully, but that would make sense to only have 2 leads. The service manual ought to give a description on how to test it.

 

If your battery sits for 2 weeks or so and it cranks slow, that is not necessarily anything to be overly concerned about - other than replacing the battery. If it cranks normally when you jump the bike (with the battery in it of course) then your starter motor is probably fine.

 

One little quirk in the electrical system is that if the battery is too low and you try to crank it you will experience what you describe in terms of the loss of the speedometer and trip meter. Not necessarily the blown fuse, but you did say you had a lot of crud in the fuse box anyway.

 

I don't have the service manual on my work computer, when I get home I'll thumb through it a little bit and go check a few things on my bike to give you some more ideas on how to test that bad boy (and if I come up with anything else to check to make sure you get this problem licked).

[gibvel]

One little quirk in the electrical system is that if the battery is too low and you try to crank it you will experience what you describe in terms of the loss of the speedometer and trip meter. Not necessarily the blown fuse, but you did say you had a lot of crud in the fuse box anyway.

 

Okay, how long does the loss of the speedo needle, numbers, fuel gauge and trip meter disappearing last? The bike actually started the other day and those things were gone for about the 30 seconds to a min. that I had it running.

 

I've seen the trip meter reset and had the meter go back to overall mileage but I've never had it totally disappear when the bike is finally started.

 

Thanks

 

[LilBeaver]

Okay, how long does the loss of the speedo needle, numbers, fuel gauge and trip meter disappearing last? The bike actually started the other day and those things were gone for about the 30 seconds to a min. that I had it running.

 

I've seen the trip meter reset and had the meter go back to overall mileage but I've never had it totally disappear when the bike is finally started.

 

Thanks

 

 

I'm sorry, I should have qualified my initial statement on that. I cannot speak for the bikes in general, as I have only observed that on mine (last summer when I was dealing with some electrical issues). So with that in mind, the couple times that it happened to me it flashed off and reset itself when I pushed the starter button a few times (with the battery's charge lingering). Then once I got it started it did not come back on right away. To be honest with you though, I don't remember how long it took for the display to come back because when it happened and I got my bike to start, I was more focused on getting home than I was what was going on with the speedometer (since I was about 150 miles away and in the middle of nowhere).

 

So, I suppose what I am trying to say here is that I don't really know.

 

Come to think of it, just the other day I was in a bit of a hurry and turned my key on and hit the starter button before the display needle went all the way to 0 mph and my display didn't come on. I started driving, looked down and saw it wasn't on so I popped it in neutral, turned the bike off and back on, let the gauge do its self test, then popped the clutch and continued driving. Sorry I cannot be more helpful with this particular aspect of your issue.

[gibvel]

Not a problem. Wonder if that's what I did, Hit the starter button before it finished it's "self test".

[N3FOL]

Thanks,

 

I'll check those things. I doubt it's the rectifier because I'm getting about 13.8V with the bike running. At least when I put the battery back in last fall after having Interstate check it.

 

I was going to check the connectors on the Rectifier a couple weeks ago when I read the other "battery issue" post. Unfortunately other things came up and I totally forgot that. Thanks for the reminder.

 

I'm going to check all the connections I can find.

 

I am curious as to where did you measure 13.8V with the bike running. So in this case, if 13.8V is measured, it looks to be normal. What is the 'Key Off' draw on the bike? One would normally see .33mA or a tad more.

 

As for the Stator check, if I am not mistaken, you can or may see normal resistance...I think it can be somewhere around .2 or .3. (This can be misleading) Lead Test if there are 3 connectors can be a) 1-2, b) 1-3, c) 2-3..I think it is more important to measure Stator AC output and VAC should increase with RPM.

 

It is also best to do a rectifier test. Not sure what color leads they are in the Venture...typically it can be a Red and Black lead. Working by memory, Forward Bias will give a reading and OFL on the Reverse Bias.

 

Keep in mind, your battery may test good, but the bike is not fully charging the battery. In other words, your battery is facing a slow death over time and will eventually be replaced after 1.5 years or so or sooner. My 2 cents.

[gibvel]

Measured at the battery at high idle.

 

.3mA is what I saw when I tested it.

 

Even after keeping it on the trickle charger for months when I took the charger off it still cranked the bike more slowly then I was used to with the previous battery. So I'm not sure if the theory of the bike not charging the battery is valid. May be but I'm not sure about that.

[LilBeaver]

Measured at the battery at high idle.

 

.3mA is what I saw when I tested it.

 

...

:think:

 

How did you measure this? If you intended on measuring the voltage across the battery terminals your meter was set incorrectly. If you got a read out of 0.3mA you had it set to read current. In this case, this is the improper way to measure current in and out of the battery.

If your intent was, in fact, to measure the current in/out of the battery you need to disconnect a lead of the battery and hook your meter up in series with the lead cable and the battery. ONLY DO THIS IF YOU HAVE A METER THAT CAN HANDLE 30+ AMPS -- which if you have a standard $20-$50 multimeter from the standard hardware store I highly doubt it is rated for such currents (it is probably fused at 10A).

 

If your intent was to measure the voltage between the battery terminals (as several have suggested to do) you need to set your meter to the voltage setting and then touch the red lead of the meter to the positive side of the battery and the black lead of the meter to the negative side of the battery.

[mike_kelly_68]

 

gibvel,

 

You probably have a bad cell in you battery, before you can determine anything else you need to eliminate that part of the issue. If you pull you battery out of the bike you will probably see a swollen cell.

 

Only know this because I went through the 2 week charge thing this winter. Finally broke down and spent the money.

[gibvel]

:think:

 

How did you measure this? If you intended on measuring the voltage across the battery terminals your meter was set incorrectly. If you got a read out of 0.3mA you had it set to read current. In this case, this is the improper way to measure current in and out of the battery.

If your intent was, in fact, to measure the current in/out of the battery you need to disconnect a lead of the battery and hook your meter up in series with the lead cable and the battery. ONLY DO THIS IF YOU HAVE A METER THAT CAN HANDLE 30+ AMPS -- which if you have a standard $20-$50 multimeter from the standard hardware store I highly doubt it is rated for such currents (it is probably fused at 10A).

 

My intent, when I last had the battery out, was to check the drain on the battery with the key off. I put the meter (Fluke 77) in series with the meter set to measure current.

 

The post by N3FOL asked: "I am curious as to where did you measure 13.8V with the bike running. So in this case, if 13.8V is measured, it looks to be normal. To which I replied "Measured at the battery at high idle."He thenasked: "What is the 'Key Off' draw on the bike? One would normally see .33mA or a tad more." To which I replied ".3mA is what I saw when I tested it."

 

I did the Voltage reading with the meter set on DC volts and the red lead on the positive side of the battery and the black lead on the negative.

 

I did the current reading with the positive side of the battery disconnected and one lead of the meter on the positive battery terminal and the other on the positive lead of the bike.

 

Now that I look at it though, I can see how it might be a bit confusing.

[LilBeaver]

My intent, when I last had the battery out, was to check the drain on the battery with the key off. I put the meter (Fluke 77) in series with the meter set to measure current.

 

The post by N3FOL asked: "I am curious as to where did you measure 13.8V with the bike running. So in this case, if 13.8V is measured, it looks to be normal. To which I replied "Measured at the battery at high idle."He thenasked: "What is the 'Key Off' draw on the bike? One would normally see .33mA or a tad more." To which I replied ".3mA is what I saw when I tested it."

 

I did the Voltage reading with the meter set on DC volts and the red lead on the positive side of the battery and the black lead on the negative.

 

I did the current reading with the positive side of the battery disconnected and one lead of the meter on the positive battery terminal and the other on the positive lead of the bike.

 

Now that I look at it though, I can see how it might be a bit confusing.

 

 

:doh:

 

Sorry. Somedays I read things but it just doesn't process. I read through his post then got to yours and my mind apparently was wandering somewhere else. )

[1BigDog]

Hey Gib, sure sounds like that battery is about to bite the dust real soon, like dropping a cell. Its acting like mine did when I used a cheap Batteries Plus battery. Dropped cells like crazy and my dash went haywire too. Put in a new starter relay switch in (mine was corroded badly) and took apart any electrical connection I could find, cleaned the connections with contact cleaner then dabbed some diaelectric grease in there and closed them up. Got the Deka battery now and im happy with it. Those heavy duty posts sure are nice too.

[gibvel]

Hey Gib, sure sounds like that battery is about to bite the dust real soon, like dropping a cell. Its acting like mine did when I used a cheap Batteries Plus battery. Dropped cells like crazy and my dash went haywire too. Put in a new starter relay switch in (mine was corroded badly) and took apart any electrical connection I could find, cleaned the connections with contact cleaner then dabbed some diaelectric grease in there and closed them up. Got the Deka battery now and im happy with it. Those heavy duty posts sure are nice too.

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's about like the old battery was when it was giving up the ghost. The real pisser is it's less than 2 years old.

 

I think you're right though and I may have to spring for a Deka.

 

Can you tell me how the heavy duty posts differ from other battery posts?

Edited April 14, 2010 by gibvel

[Squidley]

Can you tell me how the heavy duty posts differ from other battery posts?

 

 

If I'm not mistaken Mark, the posts are threaded instead of a connecting nut and bolt, the bolt screws right into the post which is pretty beefy and I think has 2 threaded points on each terminal.