electrical help needed!

[Bill in NJ]

Hi All I am having problem with I think the charging system. Here are the symptoms - Bike seems to be running fine but my volt meter (kuryakyn) shows a drop in voltage while riding. It reads around 12 then drops to 0 - blinks off and on afew times the 2 red lights will come on then the 2 yellow then goes back to reading around 12. again bike seems to run fine. Last week after a short ride the bike would not start so replaced the battery thinking that was it. So now I am thinking stator or regulator. What do you guys think?? Bill

[Monty]

Looks like a bad connection to the voltmeter to me. Check all of your connections and make sure they are clean and tight. You might try hooking up a multimeter and see if it gives the same reading as the Kuryakyn one.

[Scooter Bob]

Also, when you get a better meter on it, it should be closer to the 14 volt neighborhood when running with the R's up some if it's charging. If your only seeing 12 volts when running, it's not charging the battery and will run the new one down too.

 

Later, Scooter Bob

[Bill in NJ]

Thanks guys i'll check it out. The 12 was just a quess on my part the meter goes to 10 then to 15 with a battery symbol in between. I'll let you know.

Bill

[Bill in NJ]

OK just finished checking and it looks like its not charging. I get 11.8 while its running and the rpm's are up, so I guess it's the stator or could a bad regulator do that? just don't want to replace it if its not broke. Thanks.

[Scooter Bob]

OK just finished checking and it looks like its not charging. I get 11.8 while its running and the rpm's are up, so I guess it's the stator or could a bad regulator do that? just don't want to replace it if its not broke. Thanks.

 

You're right, don't think it's charging.

 

Time to get the manual out for some further testing. If you don't have one, I believe you can find one here in the Tech Library.

 

Good Luck, Scooter Bob

[Scooter Bob]

to the service manual download area...

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1828

[Bill in NJ]

Thanks Scooter Bob I have the manuals and unfortunately I am well aquanted with it.

[GeorgeS]

Have you checked the reading with a Different Digital Volt/Ohm Meter ???

and the engine running.

 

If battery Is not going dead, I would Suspect the Panel Meter, as being Funky !

 

Or a bad connection to the meter.

 

Or a loose Fuse Holder,

 

Check the Charging Voltage, with engine Running at 2000 rpm, useing Digital Volt/Ohm meter.

If less then 13.5 Volts DC at battery, then there is a charging system problem.

 

Check all the AC, Connections from the Stator going to the Rectifyer/Regulator Unit, Clean all plugs and connections.

Check for Burn Damage on the Inline AC Plugs, or the Plugs at the Regulator Unit.

Fairly common problem,

Edited March 28, 2010 by GeorgeS

[Bill in NJ]

Thanks GeorgeS. I am going to test stator, r/r and check all connection today. The battery did died and checking with a meter showed it "charging" at just under 12 while running.

[Condor]

Sounds like your dealing with the same problem 1stGens have from time to time. GeorgeS wrote up a tech article dealing with the problem. Welcome to our world....

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=811

[Bill in NJ]

I'll try that. So far I tested it at the r/r connector and everything looks ok although there is visual burning on the neg pin and connector. But like i said the readings are still ok. I'll try to test it at the other connector to see what happens, If I can find it.

Bill

[GeorgeS]

My best guess is the Plug AT, the Rectifyer/Regulator Unit !!

 

But Follow the wireing From the Stator, enroute from the Stator, going to the Regulator unit, First, IF you bike has the enline Plug, start there, then the one at the Regulator itself,

 

Next TEST, is to check the Three phases, of AC, on the 3 large wires comeing from the STATOR. They should all read about the SAME " AC " voltage with in about 1/2 to 1 volt ,

 

Voltage will vary with engine RPM, But, look for about 6 to 12 Volts, AC.

 

then Check the DC, at the Battery, should be at least 14.0 DC, at the Battery.

 

POST, what you find.

[Bill in NJ]

I did that at the r/r connector and the ac readings were the same for all 3 at idle and they would all go up when the rpms went up and stay consistent along all 3. I then checked DC at the battery and had no change with the r/r replaced. Should this test be done with the r/r disconnected?

[GeorgeS]

Ok, so you have Good 3 phase to the R/R Unit.

 

You have Replaced the R/R Unit. And Only 12V to the Bat.

 

Question, Do the 3 phase wires on your bike run all the way to the Plug, on the R/R Unit??

 

IF so, then that plug, has the 3 each , 3 phase wires going into it, and the Red And Black DC wires comeing out .

 

( ie; So do all the wires to the R/R Unit go thru the One Plug, thats plugged into the R/R unit ???? )

 

OK, Another fellow last year had a very Similar Problem, He found the FIX, Inside of that Plug,

 

Carefully Inspect that plug, you need to make Sure All the Wires are Makeing GOOD Connection Inside the Plug. !!!!!!!!

 

ONE of the Wires, Might Not be makeing it thru that Plug !! Might be the AC, wires, or the DC wires.

Use Bright light to make close Inspection of that plug.

 

Use, OHM Meter, and Stab the wires on one side, and other meter lead to Pins,

I am suspecting a problem in the PLUG, AT the R/R Unit.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

NEXT STEP: Follow the DC, Black Wires " FROM " the R/R Unit, to a Ground Stud, Somplace on the bike, ( I'm not sure exactly where it is on the 2nd Gens )

OR, Pull the Plug from R/R unit, use OHM meter make sure good connection to Frame Ground, and Battery Neg. side. !!

 

NEXT STEP: Disconnect POS cable from Battery, Make sure you have Good connectin from the RED DC output connect point at the R/R unit, UP to the Battery Pos cable where connects to the Battery.

 

Next Step:, Have you Checked your NEG BAT, cable, where it connects to the Frame of the Bike ??? the Stud might be Corroded.

 

Best guess's at this point.

 

Its Possible you got a Bad " New Battery " but, thats a long shot !

 

Have you taken that battery Out of bike, and Charged it with a Battery Charger?? A Real Charger, not just a " Trickle Charger " ???

[Bill in NJ]

I did not replace the r/r with a new one the old one tested ok so I put that one back in to check if there was a charge at the battery.

Yes the 3 wires and the + - are all at one plug at the r/r.

The plug at the r/r does have burn marks and slight melting on the - pin of the plug. it did test ok.

I am thinking the plug to but not sure if I can get another plug with out replacing harness. I have to check it out.

I did check voltage at the r/r plug and it reads the same as at the battery so i am assuming that part is ok.

I check into the plug alittle more i am think with the burning/melting it might be there.

Just not sure why all else test OK

Thanks for your help. I let you know what happens.

[Guest tx2sturgis]

I'm wondering when Rick will chime in here...he went thru this last year....

 

 

[GeorgeS]

There was a fellow about a year ago, had this plug Go Bad, Water gets into it.

 

He dissassembled the Plug, and found Burnt and Open connections. In other words the Wires were NOT makeing good connection Thru the Plug.

 

As I recall the plug cannot be purchaced seperatly. He had to Rebuild, or repair it, however you want to look at it.

 

You need to do Continuity Check, thru All the wire going thru the plug, make sure ZERO Resistance thru all of them, the 3 AC, and the Pos and Neg. DC wires.

 

Its possible that one of the wires is damaged, so only a small number of the STRANDS of one wire is still makeing contact. This might show Good on an OHM meter.

 

I think you are going to have to Dissassemble that plug, and repair it.

 

IF possible, maby you could obtain a complete wireing Harness from a Junk Yard.

( well, maby )

 

Be sure to find the Main Ground point , follow the Black DC wire from the RR to the Main Ground Stud, and Make sure good connection there.

 

Question: How do you know the R/R Unit tested good, ?? how did you do that, on another bike ??

[Bill in NJ]

I checked the r/r using a multi meter following the instruction from the Venturers.org tech library. Now what do I do if the plug can't be repaired?

[1BigDog]

There was a fellow about a year ago, had this plug Go Bad, Water gets into it.

 

He dissassembled the Plug, and found Burnt and Open connections. In other words the Wires were NOT makeing good connection Thru the Plug.

 

As I recall the plug cannot be purchaced seperatly. He had to Rebuild, or repair it, however you want to look at it.

 

You need to do Continuity Check, thru All the wire going thru the plug, make sure ZERO Resistance thru all of them, the 3 AC, and the Pos and Neg. DC wires.

 

Its possible that one of the wires is damaged, so only a small number of the STRANDS of one wire is still makeing contact. This might show Good on an OHM meter.

 

I think you are going to have to Dissassemble that plug, and repair it.

 

IF possible, maby you could obtain a complete wireing Harness from a Junk Yard.

( well, maby )

 

Be sure to find the Main Ground point , follow the Black DC wire from the RR to the Main Ground Stud, and Make sure good connection there.

 

Question: How do you know the R/R Unit tested good, ?? how did you do that, on another bike ??

 

 

Im the "fellow" George is referring to. We spent much time on the phone while George patiently walked me through the possible issues. The man knows his stuff. I will say this: take your battery to a shop to have it tested. Its very possible that you have a bad cell.

 

One test I (we) did was to jiggle the plug to the regulator (the lower fairing was removed) and check the meter. The meter fluctuated widely, indicating a bad connection. The plug had to be disassembled and I found a burnt positive wire. The plug was partially melted at this point. The other wires also had very loose connections. You cannot replace this plug unless you buy a new harness. And thats several hundred bucks. What I ended up doing was to very carefully mark each wire. with their corresponding holes. Warning: Mess this part up and you will fry your charging system. I made a diagram before I cut the wires indicating the proper placement, using a different unique marking for each individual wire. I then clipped each wire, drilled out the back of the plug to remove the locking mechanism from them, slid the drilled out plug back up the harness, along with the proper heat shrink tube, thoroughly soldered new wires and pins on the harness wires. 12 gauge for the three in the center and 10 gauge for pos & neg. I then attached the regulator, carefully sliding each individual pin in place, first coating each pin with a fine coat of dialectric grease. Then I slid the plug down over the whole assembly and used RTV sealant to completely fill in the open holes in the back of the plug where the wiring went into. I wiped some RTV around the base of the plug where it meets the reg/rec and then used a cable tie wrapped around the whole unit to secure it together. Now, as far as heat shrink wrap tubes go, I used one tube on each individual wire to completely cover each solder joint, then I used one large piece to cover the whole assembly, stretching it over the base of the plug too. It sure is watertight now.

The proper factory type pins were hard to find. I was able to locate the three 12 gauge wires with the right type pins from International Harvestor trucks. For the 10 Gauge pos/neg wires I used some gold pins I had. I wasnt happy with their thickness so I "tinned" the whole connector with solder to "thicken the part", hopefully making it a little heavier duty in the process.

 

One other thing not mentioned here is the possibility of a bad starter relay. Its located behind the left side battery cover. Mine was badly corroded.

 

My 99 electric issues had haunted me for many months. I ultimetely replaced just about all of the possible relays and dialectrically greased, after cleaning them with contact cleaner, all plug in connectors. From the buckeye stator, to a new regulator, starter relay, sidestand switch, new ignition switch, etc. From my point of view, the bike is now 11 years old and things are going to go bad and since I was not going to replace the bike I went ahead and invested in some new parts. Buying them online from places like Partshark made it way cheaper then getting the parts from your dealer.

 

The stator and regulator should be replaced as a unit. Like George said, check and clean all of your connections for the battery cables. A resistance test should also be done on the cables to make sure there isnt a break somewhere in there, or maybe corroded so badly that its causing problems.

 

Good luck....

[dug050]

Electrical problems are a PITA and not my strong point but a few comments. The voltage regulator is also a rectifier converting the AC voltage from the stator to DC voltage to run our electrical system and charge the battery. I may be wrong but I think the test done on the RR with an ohm meter only tests the rectifier part by checking the diodes, the only real test of the regulator is checking at the battery for charging voltage. Usually when the regulator fails you get an over-charge situation which fries the battery and lights. An undercharge, from my experience, is usually a failing stator but if this has tested OK I would be looking for a bad ground. Bad grounds can make some really weird things happen which may result in the burnt ground pin in your plug and the erratic readings on your voltmeter. As George stated, a ground may show good with an ohm meter because of the low voltage of your test meter but may fail under actual charging voltage.

If the RR proves to be OK and it is bad connectors in the plug you could eliminate the plug and hard solder the wires the same as many have done on the stator connector. May make replacing the RR a little more difficult in the future but would be cheaper than replacing the wire harness.

 

Good luck

 

Doug

[LilBeaver]

Sounds like you've got some good info here. And I do see that you chatted with Ruffy - so I presume by now you are probably all set, or close to being there.

 

But, I've got a few items to add anyway.

 

I checked the r/r using a multi meter following the instruction from the Venturers.org tech library. Now what do I do if the plug can't be repaired?

 

As a warning this testing procedure is INCONCLUSIVE (as dug050 alluded to and explained above) if you end up with the readings that they claim you should have. Proof: I have, in my hands, a failed RR unit (since my bike was putting 17-18 V through the electrical system at times) and I passed their test. However, I would be willing to agree that if you ended up with a reading across one of the diodes that read no continuity (open) then yes, you have a failed R/R unit. Since mine failed, I tested it to the best of my ability, but without a standard to compare it to, I really didn't have anything to go on in terms of developing a set of tests that would conclusively determine whether a R/R unit, in question, is within spec. Unfortunately, I have been much to busy to actually git-r-done.

 

I'm not looking to start anything with anyone, I just wanted you to know that you may not be able to completely rule out the R/R unit based on their test.

 

...

 

Be sure to find the Main Ground point , follow the Black DC wire from the RR to the Main Ground Stud, and Make sure good connection there.

 

Question: How do you know the R/R Unit tested good, ?? how did you do that, on another bike ??

 

I did not replace the r/r with a new one the old one tested ok so I put that one back in to check if there was a charge at the battery.

Yes the 3 wires and the + - are all at one plug at the r/r.

The plug at the r/r does have burn marks and slight melting on the - pin of the plug. it did test ok.

I am thinking the plug to but not sure if I can get another plug with out replacing harness. I have to check it out.

I did check voltage at the r/r plug and it reads the same as at the battery so i am assuming that part is ok.

I check into the plug alittle more i am think with the burning/melting it might be there.

Just not sure why all else test OK

Thanks for your help. I let you know what happens.

 

As you have probably already discussed with Ruffy, the burned pins are not normal. So, I would definitely look to rectify (no pun intended) that issue during this process.

 

I believe GeorgeS (?) has already mentioned it as well, but check all of the grounding points on the bike, as a corroded ground can do funky things to an electrical system. Mine, by the horn, was pretty corroded - I have no idea why, but I pulled it out and cleaned it up, and then I had a rock solid voltage reading.

 

If you have done the AC measurements AND the resistance measurements on the stator and you were within spec then your stator is most likely fine. (Again, you and Ruffy probably chatted about this too).

 

Sorry I was a little late chiming in on this one, I haven't been hanging out on here and reading everything quite as much as I used to as I have gotten pretty busy with my work and am at a pretty critical point in my quest for the good 'ol PhD.

 

I'll try to stay tuned until you get this resolved to maybe be able to chip in some :2cents: or something. My problem wasn't quite the same as yours, but, I did have most of the electrical system on my bike taken apart for inspection and cleaning ().

 

Hopefully you and Ruffy got it all resolved

 

[Bill in NJ]

First of all I want to thank everyone for all the info. I am Going to try a new regulator and see what happens. I checked and cleaned all the connectors and grounds I could find. tested everything again as well as inspected the plug. although there was some melting at the neg. pin area it looks good. I cleaned the plug and all pins seem tight except the neg pin is a little lose in the plug but tight connection with the wire. I am going to try to get the regulator tomorrow and try it. I will keep everyone informed as to what happens. Thanks again everyone!!

Bill

[GeorgeS]

On that loose fit pin, you could " TIN " the plug on the R/R side.

Might be High resistance there.

 

Question: Have you taken your Battery OUT of the Bike, and Charged it with a Charger ??? NOT A TRICKLE CHARGER, USE A REAL BATTERY CHARGER !!!

 

Let it sit Overnight, and make sure its holding Full Voltage, This will eliminate the possibility of a Bad cell in the battery. ( EVEN if its a NEW Battery )

 

If a lead Acid, type. Charge at 2 AMP Rate for At least 8 hours !!

 

Please don't tell me you only have a Trickle Charger !!

[ediddy]

I had a similar problem. Have an 05. Never had a problem until I got back from maintenance day last year. Parked bike for a week and the batter went dead. Bought new battery and a week later it was dead. Got another new battery but it will go dead if I don't keep it on the battery tender. If I go 2 days off the tender batter goes dead. Took it to the dealer last week. Called friday to see if it was ready for me to pick up and was told the technician was having a problem tracking down problem. The battery charges ok but when bike is runnning battery starts going down. I am calling today to see if they have found the problem.