First Gen Starter Ground Upgrade

[Vonwolf]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Starter-VMAX-1200-V-Max-1FK-81800-10-00-Yamaha-/291109473030?hash=item43c77a0b06&vxp=mtr. This was a link to a starter motor for a vmax. It is a new aftermarket part for something like $89. Has anyone tried these new aftermarket products. I know yamaha probably did not make the original so I can't see anything wrong with an aftermarket. I just wonder if anyone has looked inside one and found less than 4 brushes.

 

That's kind of like the one I bought, but mine was more expencive, the vendor told me it was a 2 brush unit, but when I got it and opened it up it was a 4 brush and works great

[Geobob]

While a 4 brush starter is the best solution, The ground mod that this thread is about is a definite improvement for those that may not have the cash for a 4 brush starter and is a great way to improve what you already have. I have the ground mod on my bike and see no real need for a 4 brush at this time.

This what I belived would be the case. I am curious as to why my ground modification did not work. It really did nothing from the beegining. Maybe some how the wires came loose when imput it back together. I sodered the connector and srinck wrapped them. The screws seemed tight, and I ran a second ground from the case to the ground cable on the motor. I am very curious but not enough to dissasemble without a replacement in hand.

[Flyinfool]

Before you take anything apart, do a few checks with your volt meter to rule out a bad connection. If you have a bad wire somewhere the 4 brush will not help either.

 

set meter to lowest volts scale.

Connect black to battery negative terminal. not to the bolt or connector that is attached to the battery but get to the actual lead part of the terminal.

 

Connect red to starter case.

 

Crank starter.

Any voltage displayed is power being lost by resistance in the ground circuit. anything much more than .2 volts is a problem to start hunting down.

 

Now connect the red test lead to the positive battery terminal same as above.

Connect the black lead to the post of the wire connection at the starter.

 

Crank starter.

Any voltage displayed is power being lost in the positive start circuit. because there are more connections there is more potential for power loss, but you want it to be under .5V.

 

This test does not tell you where the problem is, it can just tell you that you have a problem, but you can use the same process to start narrowing things down to isolate the problem.

 

The ground mod did make a big difference on my 2 brush starter. Then the heavier cables made another big difference.

[ckribbs]

Hi guys new here and new to the Venture Royale family. I just bought my royale a couple weeks ago, other then needing new valve cover gaskets and a starter change due to the old one freezing up. It started rough but once started runs descent. I haven't messed with it much but have noticed it takes a long time to roll over and start. Seems like the battery is dead but rolls for a good 10-20 seconds before starting. I stumbled apon this thread and think this may be the issue I have. My biggest question is, is this a big problem with these bikes and starters. If I need to I will be doing this mod before I get the bike on the road, I do not want to be stranded with a bike that doesn't start like it should. Thanks guys for any help.

[Flyinfool]

Welcome.

 

If it is cranking for 10-20 seconds before it starts, then the starter is not likely tour issue.

Are you using the choke when starting?

[BlueSky]

The Ventures from 83 thru 90 have weak 2 brush starters. Many owners replace them with 4 brush starters from any 1300cc V4 Yamaha motorcycle 91 and later. Dingy's cable mod should help. You can buy a used 4 brush starter from ebay for $50 and up. Search for XVZ1300 starter. If you use the search word "Venture" it might pull up other vehicle starters since Yamaha spread that word around.

[ckribbs]

Yes I am using the choke as well as not using the choke, does not matter which way i try it. Its getting fuel I know the fuel pump is working and when it does finally start it runs very smooth and rides very nice, just very slow to roll and start.

[Venturous Randy]

One of the problems with slow starting is, as the starter is cranking and using so much of the available battery voltage, the ignition may be too weak to fire the plugs sufficiently. One of the things I did on my 83 years ago was to take the power wire that goes to the TCI and use it to trigger a relay bringing 12 volts from the battery. I suspect that on most of these old bikes, during cranking, you are not getting more than 8 or 9 volts to the TCI and this low voltage will still operate the relay. I found this after I moved the TCI to the top of the airbox and actually checked the voltage on the red wire when cranking.

Another thing some people don't realize is if the bike has been sitting for awhile, the carbs need to be filled with fuel. I do this by turning on the ignition and using the kill switch to trigger the fuel pump by cycling it off and on. I do this until the fuel pump quits clicking.

Another thing that I found is some of these bikes don't like any throttle while cranking. If it is cold, maybe some choke, but no throttle. I may also go to full choke and as it is cranking, I will slowly reduce the choke.

Randy

[bongobobny]

Yah! What Randy said!

 

Another thing to check, even though it runs good, the plugs may need replacing. Also check your spark plug wire caps, a weak spark will make for hard starting but once running may run fine. Also, have your battery load tested, it may be on it's way out! Replace battery with a good AGM type, don't waste your money on regular lead acid batteries, they are inherently weak and don't last as long as an AGM which will also give you more cranking amps!

 

The issue with the 2 brush starter and wimpy stock battery cables is when it is hot, it turns over really slooooow! It won't really strand you, but you may be delayed waiting for things to cool down to restart...

[bcradio2020]

This can still be a problem that is often overlooked.

On my 84 VR I had added a battery in the back and paralled the power connections because I thought the starter was dragging when it was hot, as in drawing too much current. Fact is that after doing this mod as well as filing the tips on the brushplate and dressing the contact areas on the housing the starter spins like it should. That battery was just for weight because under the conditions it really did not contribute a thing.

Great field engineering folks, thanks for passing this along.

[cowpuc]

I have ran the MK1's with 2 brush starters for many years and, between 6 of them since 87 have managed to chase them out to +1 million miles (lot of great mems).. I have never swapped in a 4 brush but have encountered the weak starter syndrome many times.. There have been a couple of instances of cable issues and battery issues that have caused starter strain but predominately, on my bikes, the issue of starter contamination on the armature has been the guilty culpret.. I did have to replace bearings in a starter once on one but that was just one time.. All the rest of the cures came down to a simple cleaning of the inside of the starter, paying careful attention to the amature and grunge filled area's thereof.. Cleaned well, it always amazed how close to as a brand new starter they would start when that amp stealing grunge was gone.. All IMHO of course...