2nd gen trans into 1st gen pics

[Venturous Randy]

I have set the 2nd gen gearset into the old 86 1st gen block that I have and so far I do not see anything that looks like it would not work. With some larger diameter gears due to the 5th gear overdrive, I was concerned about clearance problems, but so far, so good. I have set the gears in both halves and will post some pictures.

RandyA

[utadventure]

So Randy, did you install the whine with the gear set or did you leave that out??? LOL

 

 

Dave

[Dano]

Are you having to change out the shift drum and forks too?

[massey130]

it is said that a bike is as fast as its slowest link. you first genner's are always saying the 2nd gens are slower than the 1st gens. now you go and put a 2nd gen tranny into a 1st gen case.

 

i guess you just want hang out back with us, that is so nice. good to have you back here!

 

[Venturous Randy]

Are you having to change out the shift drum and forks too?

 

I have not set it in with the forks and drum in place yet. At this point, I was just wanting to make sure that mama Yamaha did not open the case up more for more needed room. It is my desire to couple this trans with a V-max rear so it will actually be a bit lower in 1st gear and it will just increase the gear spacing between gears. I still suspect that an 8,000rpm shift out of 1st gear to 2nd will still be well within the power band.

I have heard that those with the V-Max rear in their 2nd gens are a lot happier with the set up.

RandyA

[Venturous Randy]

So Randy, did you install the whine with the gear set or did you leave that out??? LOL

 

 

Dave

 

Actually, it is my understanding that the whine comes out of the clutch basket and should not have anything to do with the actual trans set up. I have also thought about just swapping gears on to my shafts to keep all the spacing with the pertinent shims in place.

But, I did think about that.

RandyA

[pegscraper]

That's funny. I'm right in the middle of putting a 1st gen transmission in my Royal Star, which is geared even higher than the RSV is. Bet you have to change the shift drum and forks too. I found out the hard way that I have to. I hope you have them handy.

 

What's even more odd? Your bike with a 2nd gen trans and VMX rear gear will be spinning faster in fifth gear than my bike will with a 1st gen trans and stock gearing everywhere else. I have a higher ratio between the crank and the clutch than both 1st and 2nd gens do.

[a1bummer]

So what are the gear ratios for the 2nd. gens and VMax?

 

MKI/MKII Trans:

1st. = 2.6:1

2nd. = 1.772:1

3rd. = 1.347:1

4th. = 1.068:1

5th. = 0.906:1

 

MKI/MKII Ring & Pinion:

2.566:1?

[Venturous Randy]

So what are the gear ratios for the 2nd. gens and VMax?

 

MKI/MKII Trans:

1st. = 2.6:1

2nd. = 1.772:1

3rd. = 1.347:1

4th. = 1.068:1

5th. = 0.906:1

 

MKI/MKII Ring & Pinion:

2.566:1?

 

2nd gen gear ratio is:

 

1st	2.437:1
2nd	1.57:1
3rd	1.160:1
4th	0.906:1
5th	0.750

As you can see, 1st gen 5th and 2nd gen 4th is same.

RandyA

[Thom]

OK Randy , when you get done , how fast will you be going at 9 grand in 5th ,

[Squeeze]

Here's the edited Data off the Shop Manuals and Pegscraper's Posting:

Edited March 27, 2010 by Squeeze

[Squeeze]

OK Randy , when you get done , how fast will you be going at 9 grand in 5th ,

 

That'll be 272 km/h(169 mph)...

Edited March 27, 2010 by Squeeze

[Squeeze]

Or 303 km/h(188 mh) with the VR final Drive

[pegscraper]

Um - Randy - sorry - those tranny ratios you gave are for the '96 - '01 Royal Star, which is not the same thing as the 2nd gen RSV. Fifth gear in a 1st gen is not the same as fourth in an RSV, but rather the Royal Star. The RSV is geared lower than the Royal Star.

 

Squeeze posted the correct ratios for the 2nd gen RSV except for the final drive which is 3.30. Some folks have changed that to the VMX rear gear which gives a 3.667 which lets the engine pull and run better.

 

 

The '96 - '01 Royal Star ratios are:

 

primary - 1.666

1st - 2.437

2nd - 1.578

3rd - 1.160

4th - .906

5th - .750

secondary - .778

final drive - 3.30

[Squeeze]

Actually, it is my understanding that the whine comes out of the clutch basket and should not have anything to do with the actual trans set up. I have also thought about just swapping gears on to my shafts to keep all the spacing with the pertinent shims in place.

But, I did think about that.

RandyA

 

If you put a 2Gen Tranny in, the fall back is to 5200 from 8000 RpM when shifting from 1st to 2nd Gear. That should you put in a good Range ...

Edited March 27, 2010 by Squeeze

[a1bummer]

That'll be 272 km/h(169 mph)...

 

Is there an application like that in English somewhere? That sure would beat having to do it all on a piece of paper and a calculator.

[Squeeze]

Is there an application like that in English somewhere? That sure would beat having to do it all on a piece of paper and a calculator.

 

Not that i know off, Geardata is Freeware, normally used to calculate Chain/Sprocket Gearing for Race Track. Therefore you have to modify the the primary Values to get it right with the Tire and different final Drives. But it's all in metric. No english Translation, nor imperial Values.

 

But you could do that with an Excel Sheet rather easy also. Only the Shiftmark (the small column) might be a Problem with Excel Diagram.

[a1bummer]

Thanks. I see there are a lot more JavaScript Calculators now than there were before. I figured it all out on paper years ago and then checked my math using them when I was trying to figure out what ring & pinion ratio I wanted in my 78 F100 after I put in the E4OD. I went from a 3.27:1 to 3.89:1. If I remember right that is.

[Venturous Randy]

Um - Randy - sorry - those tranny ratios you gave are for the '96 - '01 Royal Star, which is not the same thing as the 2nd gen RSV. Fifth gear in a 1st gen is not the same as fourth in an RSV, but rather the Royal Star. The RSV is geared lower than the Royal Star.

 

Squeeze posted the correct ratios for the 2nd gen RSV except for the final drive which is 3.30. Some folks have changed that to the VMX rear gear which gives a 3.667 which lets the engine pull and run better.

 

 

The '96 - '01 Royal Star ratios are:

 

primary - 1.666

1st - 2.437

2nd - 1.578

3rd - 1.160

4th - .906

5th - .750

secondary - .778

final drive - 3.30

 

The ratios of the gearset I have, which was supposed to have come from a 2000 RSV are:

1st 2.43

2nd 1.63

3rd 1.20

4th 0.96

5th 0.785

This is with a gear count of each set.

Going to a V-Max gear would increase these numbers by about 11%, or increase the final output rpms by about 11%. To go from a .906 5th gear on a 1st gen to a .785 would drop the rpms about 13.4% the way I figure it. If anyone disagrees, please let me know.

RandyA

Edited March 28, 2010 by Venturous Randy

[pegscraper]

Hmm. Those aren't the number you posted earlier.

[Venturous Randy]

Hmm. Those aren't the number you posted earlier.

 

The numbers I posted earlier were taken from the Venture History pages or the manual. I just assumed that all 2nd gens had the same trans ratios, but evidently they don't. I'm glad the RSV is slightly lower.

Thanks for pointing that out.

RandyA

[pegscraper]

All 2nd gen RSVs are the same. And while the '96 - '01 Royal Star is basically and mostly 2nd gen, there are some differences. One is the atrociously high gear ratios throughout the entire drive train. (Even Y themselves realized they overdid this because they lowered them a little bit when they brought out the RSV.) This is why I'm putting a 1st gen tranny in mine. Even so, after this, my bike will still not be spinning as fast in fifth gear as your bike (with RSV OD trans and VMX rear gear) will be in fifth. My bike still has a higher ratio between the crank and the clutch than yours does. I calculate that after this, my bike will be spinning within 50 rpms of the FJR in every gear. I figure that ought to be just about right.

 

I hope to be putting my engine back together tomorrow afternoon. Everything looks good to go. I can't wait to see what my bike feels like with a proper set of gear ratios in it. I look forward to hearing how you like your tranny swap.

[Rosie1965]

I'm not in the habit of waking up two year old threads, but this is like watching a movie where the ending just leaves you hanging.

Was this mod successful or not?

[Venturous Randy]

I'm not in the habit of waking up two year old threads, but this is like watching a movie where the ending just leaves you hanging.

Was this mod successful or not?

 

 

Yeah, I feel the same way. Actually, after putting all the transmission pieces in the 1200 engine, it went together perfect. But, I have yet to put the engine in my bike. I did find out that one of the cylinders had some rust in it and I never did try to pull the head to see if it was a problem.

I also never put the V-Max rear end the bike that I have either.

RandyA

[Rosie1965]

I don't plan on making any changes in the near future but I found the concept interesting. Was just reading up on the VMax/FJR final drive swaps and found it.

Getting the low gear benefits of the 3.66 final drive but still retaining the overdrive function of 5th gear seems like a no-brainer.