Response from Avon Tire

[Freebird]

Yesterday I sent an email to Avon tire in regards to the cracking sidewall problems. Today I received a call from the corporate office in Stow, OH. It was a fairly lengthy conversation. The call was from a very nice lady with the title of Sales and Marketing Manager.

 

I had told her in my email that within our organization, the Avon was by far the most recommended tire for our bikes. I explained to her though that there had been numerous reports of the cracking sidewalls and that many of us are no longer recommending their tires for the Yamaha Ventures and Royal Stars.

 

Her response was that a couple of years ago, there was a change in the way the tires are poured and that she hasn't heard of any problems since that time. I don't know if that makes sense or not because though there is a current survey, there has not been enough input yet to really get a feel for the dates. I also suspect that many of the tires are long destroyed so there is no way of us getting those dates.

 

She told me that they recognize it as a problem if they see a return rate of more than 1/2% on any specific model or even size tire. She said that she saw this go to about 1% before the change was made in how the tires are poured but it seems to have been OK since then.

 

I told her that I am not convinced that the problem has been resolved. She then went into the usual spill about all the things that can cause a tire to split. I responded to that by telling here that my bike has been stored in the same garage with various tires for about 10 years and that the Avon is the only one that has exhibited this problem. The conversation was friendly but I didn't feel that anything was resolved.

 

She did send me the following document that explains some of the things that might cause the problem as well as some other information. Most of it is common sense but there may be a few things that you will find interesting.

[RandyR]

Do not park under electrical wires? I wonder why (from a tire point of view)?

[MiCarl]

Do not park under electrical wires? I wonder why (from a tire point of view)?

 

Anything carrying electricity creates ozone (that fresh smell after a thunderstorm). Ozone is a very reactive molecule and attacks almost anything (including rubber).

[Flyinfool]

Now I would really like to hear the story behind the mention of duct tape on the wheel.

You know that someone had to have done something interesting.

[LilBeaver]

Don: First of all, thanks for taking the time to contact Avon regarding this issue. I do have to say that I have been very pleased with all but one of the interactions that I have had with their customer service people. Every communication I had with an Avon rep was followed with that papers that she sent you.

 

Next I am curious about a few things. 1) If they really did change anything about how they produce the tires in an effort to correct the problem. 2) If they did, what production date did the change take effect on.

 

I am on set number two that is cracking. There is a 3 year difference in the production (DOT) date on these tires.

**I hope that everyone that has had this problem posts/messages condor so we can maybe get some insight as to what our group has experienced.

[utadventure]

They can say all they want about the environment where the bike was stored but I find it interesting that last spring, the Avon tire on the front of my son's '81 Silverwing was cracked on the sidewalls.

 

His bike was parked next to mine in the garage all winter, under the same conditions. His tire cracked, my Metz ME880 had no issues at all.

 

I have a hard time believing it had nothing to due with Avon and the quality of the tire. Didn't help our opinion any that they wouldn't warrantee it.

 

Dave

Edited March 24, 2010 by utadventure

[Freebird]

I agree with your questions and as I said, I was not satisfied with her responses. She said that the change was made about 2 years ago and I already see some date codes that fall within the past year. I am also not at all convinced that ANY of the things listed in the tech bulletin are causing the cracking because I treat these tires no differently than any other tires I've owned and have not seen the cracking problem.

 

I was very courteous to her but the last thing I told her was that I thought that they still have a problem and that I wouldn't be recommending their tires to our members again until I know that the problem has been addressed.

[Jerry W]

I have run Avon tires for over 10 years and have had one tire with a cracking issue. I called Avon and was told that as long as there was at least 1/2 of the tread left and the tire was less than 5 years old, I would be given a new tire. They not only furnished a new tire, but paid to have it mounted. I for one do not have a problem with Avon.

 

I am pretty sure I have had one bad beer in the last 10 years, but I have remained strong and continue to drink beer also.

[frogmaster]

My Dunlop E-3 are spending the Winter ( ALL 7 $@#%^&* Months of Winter) and 50% of the Avon.pdf is in my Garage!!!....... No sidewall cracking here. Maybe Avon Rep needs this URL to see what 9,000 consumers are reading and saying. 2 cents

[frogmaster]

I have run Avon tires for over 10 years and have had one tire with a cracking issue. I called Avon and was told that as long as there was at least 1/2 of the tread left and the tire was less than 5 years old, I would be given a new tire. They not only furnished a new tire, but paid to have it mounted. I for one do not have a problem with Avon.

 

I am pretty sure I have had one bad beer in the last 10 years, but I have remained strong and continue to drink beer also.

 

 

Jerry,

 

That is great news "IF" all Avon Reps are honoring what you said above. Reading other post here the Avon Reps are giving excuses and NOT honoring what you were told above and just like kids "Inconsistency" causes hurt feelings. Thank Jerry for letting us know

[KiteSquid]

Do not park under electrical wires? I wonder why (from a tire point of view)?

 

ozone

[Condor]

I agree with your questions and as I said, I was not satisfied with her responses. She said that the change was made about 2 years ago and I already see some date codes that fall within the past year. I am also not at all convinced that ANY of the things listed in the tech bulletin are causing the cracking because I treat these tires no differently than any other tires I've owned and have not seen the cracking problem.

 

I was very courteous to her but the last thing I told her was that I thought that they still have a problem and that I wouldn't be recommending their tires to our members again until I know that the problem has been addressed.

 

Don, I received the same response when I called Avon a couple of years ago. I also expressed concern, and was fed the same spin you were fed along with the attachment on the care and feeding of the Avon tire. I believe the Marketing Mgr's nick name was 'Suki'??. Might have been the same person you talked to. I used to have all the info stored away but lost it when my HD crashed 3 months ago. I afraid it's the same old spin.

 

My thoughts are that we are just a small part of the Venom consumption, and feel that in our group we are exceeding that 1%. So far nothing catastrophic has occurred, as in the Metzler's tossing caps, but it's still disconcerting.

 

I wonder what might come from contacting a federal agency (FTC) that handles problems of this sort, and can do so on a greater scale then just our group.

 

The sad part about this is I really like their performance.

[Skid]

I just ordered two Dunlop E3's. I saved $10.00 for buying two tires plus $20.00 coupon.

Complete order with free shipping was $201.98.

Not bad for buying two tires.....

[Freebird]

Yes, that is the same person. I didn't even ask her to do anything about my tire. I told her that I had not written to them in order to get any compensation for my tire but that I was just concerned about what I am seeing and others are reporting. Mine aren't bad and I may even be able to wear them out before the cracks get bad enough to concern me. I just honestly feel that there is a problem and like you, I really do like the performance of these tires and was just hoping that they would actually listen and take steps to correct the issue.

 

The bottom line is that if I had no other good choices in tires, I would buy another set of Avons and not be terribly worried about this but we DO have other choices. The Michelin Commander is a very good choice and though I've not used them, we are hearing good reports on the Dunlop E III also. I really do like the Avon but don't find it to be so heads and shoulders above the Michelin that I would buy them again unless I know that the cracking issue has been resolved.

[LilBeaver]

I'm not trying to be a fly in the ointment here but to keep things in perspective there are (as of the time I am posting this, according to Condor's tracking: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46573) there have been 14 cases (for 7 different members) of the sidewall cracking. I know that there are a few more folks on here (or at least were on here) that have had issues because if we go to the search and do the search for "Avon cracking" or something similar some other names show up. Almost all of the instances were addressed and handled (by replacing) by Avon. There are also many more members that have had Avons for quite some time and have not had a problem. The 9,000 registered users includes folks that are supporting members, trial members and expired trial members and while this forum is open to be read by anyone with internet access, out of these 9,000 people, my guess is that many of those 9,000 probably are not regular readers.

Also, the page that keeps getting sent around by Avon addresses some common issues with dry rotting, uneven tread wear, etc. It is important to note that those of us having 'problems' with the tires are NOT suffering from dry rot. It is a cracking issue that is much different than just a simple 'dry rot'. In some cases on only one side of the tire, some are hairline cracks all the way around, some are cracking in the tread, some are very deep and long that run all the way around the tire, etc etc. Point being that it is seemingly abnormal to have such cracks/splitting and the reps that I have talked to all agreed that it was quite strange how the tires developed this business over time.

 

In the interest of objectivity here I do think it is important that none of us know anything about what was going on with the tire BEFORE they made it on to our bikes. There are a lot of variables here. So, for us to point the finger at Avon, may or may not be appropriate.

In my case, my first set of tires came from a warehouse in southern California somewhere. My second set came from a warehouse somewhere in Texas. Both have exhibited very similar signs of cracking. In other's cases (that have reported on the issue and have posted pictures) it is clear that they are dispersed across the country (U.S. and Canada) so that does support that there is a possibility of this problem being some sort of manufacture problem - but not conclusively at that.

 

My motivation for being in contact with Avon regarding these issues have been 2 fold. First and foremost I felt that, as a consumer and from a safty, it was my responsibility to inform the company that I am having, what has the possibility to be, a severe problem with their product. Second, I felt that there ought to be some sort of consideration since there was an obvious problem with the product.

 

My last comment here for now will be this. My last communication with Avon, was talking with a rep in person, that ended with again, a good experience with Avon customer service. After discussing and showing him the issues with these tires he was very apologetic and after a conversation between me, the Avon rep and the service writer with the dealership I was at, they (the dealership and Avon rep) offered to take tread measurements and replace the tire with an Avon (if I wanted) or that they would work out putting a different set of tires on my bike (they both suggested Dunlop E3s). My front tire is almost out of tread, so that one cannot be 'warranted' and the rear one is close but the cracking on the rear, while it just started, it is not bad enough for me to honestly feel not safe on it. So I am going to watch it over the next couple of weeks and if it gets any worse, I've got a new rear Dunlop, courtesy of the Rep. I do have about 10k on these tires, so it is getting close to that time anyway.

 

Sorry about the long post, I just like to stay objective about things and want to make sure that we all keep this in perspective. You don't have to agree with me, and quite frankly I don't care if you agree or disagree with my approach. I respect your opinion and will be happy to simply agree to disagree and all I ask for is the same in return.

 

As I told this last rep I dealt with, of all of the people that have had Avons and been happy with them, I will take that into consideration but cannot ignore my past experience either. So, I'll take a break from the Avons and possibly consider them again in the future.

 

Again, sorry for the long post. I'll shut it now.

 

 

EDIT: Oops, I pushed submit and walked away to come back to seeing that I must have missed the submit button or something. It looks like much of what I said above has been said already - sorry for the double post with some of the info here.

Edited March 24, 2010 by LilBeaver
didn't click "submit post" and double posted some stuff... Sorry

[BradT]

I was not satisfied with her responses. She said that the change was made about 2 years ago

 

If they have the cracking issues tracked to 1/2% and they hit 1% in failures, I would bet she could give youthe dates the problems occured and when they corrected it.

 

I would have asked for month when they feel the issue started and how long before they re-acted. It bet the answer could be real interesting ?

 

Brad

[Condor]

I really do like the Avon but don't find it to be so heads and shoulders above the Michelin that I would buy them again unless I know that the cracking issue has been resolved.

 

Ditto!!

[Bummer]

Avon offered to replace my first cracked Venom, but I'd already bought a new set of Avons from SW Moto and had them installed locally. The dealer who installed my new E3s also said Avon would no doubt cover the latest cracks, but only with another set of Avons. I have absolutely no problem with Avon's willingness to replace the bad tires.

 

My problem has been primarily with rear tires, though the front was beginning to show signs of similar cracking this time. The cracks were not anywhere near as deep as the rears. The front had as much mileage as the three rears, though the last two rears were very low mileage. The front still had plenty of miles left on the tread surface.

 

Both of the Avons in the photos I posted were purchased from SW Moto, but I believe they were drop shipped from a more local warehouse. It only took then two days to get here, which would seem to make it pretty unlikely that they were shipped from AZ to IN.

 

I didn't do any of the stuff they said not to do and I did do all the stuff they said to do. The temps have not been particularly extreme. From the beginning I treated them better than any other tires I've ever had.

 

I still like the handling of the Avons, though I haven't really tested the E3s yet. I hope to make more progress with that over the next two weekends. When the front Elite is done I'll probably give Avon a fair look again, particularly if the comments about cracking have abated.

 

All I'm really telling folks is to check those tires well before EVERY ride. Don't just think about it. Don't just talk about it. Do it, and do it thoroughly. Irene and I rode almost 100 miles before I noticed the cracks on the newest rear, and I'd been looking. The rear on a Venture can be a bear to check well. I checked it, moved it, checked it, moved it, checked it, moved it, and I missed some.

[midnightventure]

After my second cracked Metzeler I wouldn't have taken another one if they paid me but I am starting to think it is pretty hard to make a tire for a bike this heavy. Since I have installed 2 sets of E3s on mine now I am optimistic that they are the best option for us because of the heavy sidewall. Even if it starts to dry rot there is a lot of extra material there.

[dunvilsteev]

All this cracking talk had me down on bended knee to take a peek at mine. Front is clear, back has some small thin cracks about 3" long, but I have about 12,000 miles (18,000 km) on them and the cracking is very thin. Would I have any chance on getting them replaced with that mileage? If not I'll ride, I'll put on enough mileage to probably require new tires next spring anyway, but if I could wrangle a new set..... hhhhhm. What do you think?

[Condor]

All this cracking talk had me down on bended knee to take a peek at mine. Front is clear, back has some small thin cracks about 3" long, but I have about 12,000 miles (18,000 km) on them and the cracking is very thin. Would I have any chance on getting them replaced with that mileage? If not I'll ride, I'll put on enough mileage to probably require new tires next spring anyway, but if I could wrangle a new set..... hhhhhm. What do you think?

 

It all depends on the DOT date and the amount of tread left. After 12,000 miles I think you've exceeded reasonable expectations. They'll only warantee tires that have deep seperation. Hair line cracks don't count....

[Tom]

I have never had any problems with my Avons BUT after all the complaints on the Avon and a close friend having the problem,I went to the Elite 3S and handling is as good in my opinion. The ONLY difference I can find and it is VERY VERY minor and to most would not even be noticed is the E3S are a little more noisy but again I have to REALLY listen to it on certain road types. Will I buy again YES,will I Buy Avons again? YES... WHEN they make an attempt to correct and communicate with there base that the problem is solved.

[saddlebum]

I installed 2 venoms on my bike in NOV 2008. In MAR 2009 after reading on the site here abouit the cracking I went out to check mine and found they were cracking. At this point the bike had been parked for the winter and only had less than 100 miles on them, the tibs were still on the tread. The DOT yr stamp was 05/08. The dealer replaced them without hesitation and was even willing to sustitute dunlop EII's in there place at my request.

Edited March 24, 2010 by saddlebum

[Jerry Zimmermann]

My Dunlop E-3 are spending the Winter ( ALL 7 $@#%^&* Months of Winter) and 50% of the Avon.pdf is in my Garage!!!....... No sidewall cracking here. Maybe Avon Rep needs this URL to see what 9,000 consumers are reading and saying. 2 cents

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Hey Friend,

What's the suggested tire pressure for the rear and front on my 07 RSV? Just had new ones put on. The old 404 rear lasted 9,500 miles. Kept 41 pounds rear, 40 in the front.

Look forward to hearing from y'all!!

[Tom]

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Hey Friend,

What's the suggested tire pressure for the rear and front on my 07 RSV? Just had new ones put on. The old 404 rear lasted 9,500 miles. Kept 41 pounds rear, 40 in the front.

Look forward to hearing from y'all!!

Jerry,You will get many different opinions on pressure but I am a big guy and I keep Max Pressure in mine..that is the max on SIDEWALL of the particular tire you run. This WILL be scrutinized to death but for me nothing but long wearing and absolute no uneven wear. I got over 16ooo out of my last Avons with MAYBE another 2000 left on it. One Exception,when it is 100 or over degrees I drop it about 2-3 lbs..Why? I just do..heat builds up pressure I feel its best for ME.