Brake Bleeding: Sloppy Rear Brake Pedal

[Venturerider416]

Hi guys,

 

I'm having a heck of a time troubleshooting these brakes on my '83 Venture 1200TK. The rear brake pedal has been sloppy (no rear brakes) so I decided to bleed the brakes to see if it would fix the issue. It didn't so I moved onto cleaning and replacing the rear brake caliper seals and rebuilt the rear master cylinder as well. I've been bleeding the brakes for two days and the pedal is still "sloppy" (IE: The pedal is easily pushed all the way down) with no stopping power at the rear caliper.

 

Your question is probably, "How are you bleeding the brakes?" and "Do you know the front left caliper is connected to the rear master cylinder as well?"

 

Both great questions because I don't know a ton about this bike and i need help. As far as How I'm bleeding the brakes:

 

1st- I topped off the Rear master cylinder reservoir with fresh Dot 3.

2nd- With pedal depressed I opened up the bleeder on rear caliper. Some fluid and bubbles came out, so I tightened the bleeder and let off the pedal. Repeated 5 or 6 times.

3rd- I moved onto the front left caliper and with pedal depressed loosened the bleeder waited a few seconds and tightened. No fluid came out for the first 10-15 times I did this until finally... it did. Then I moved back to rear caliper and repeated, front caliper and repeated and so on and so on....

 

I still have no rear brakes after two days of this. Do you spot any errors in my technique? Please help me!

 

God Bless

[Rocket]

Hi guys,

 

3rd- I moved onto the front left caliper and with pedal depressed loosened the bleeder waited a few seconds and tightened. No fluid came out for the first 10-15 times I did this until finally... it did. Then I moved back to rear caliper and repeated, front caliper and repeated and so on and so on....

 

I still have no rear brakes after two days of this. Do you spot any errors in my technique? Please help me!

 

God Bless

 

You have air trapped at the connection point, by the steering neck. There is no bleeder there (83-85 AKA Mk1), you will probably need to "crack" the line there too, as you would do a bleeder, to vent the air. Also don't forget the left fork tube antidive, as that is hydraulically activated by the rear brake. Sometimes it takes quite some time, to get the air all out.

 

[Venturerider416]

You have air trapped at the connection point, by the steering neck. There is no bleeder there (83-85 AKA Mk1), you will probably need to "crack" the line there too, as you would do a bleeder, to vent the air.

 

 

Thanks for the quick response and I just want to make sure I do this correctly. Have you "crack"ed the line at the neck's connection point? What exactly does that procedure entail?

 

This newbie appreciates the help!

[skydoc_17]

Hey Chris,

Standing on the right side of the bike, with your right leg on the ground, place your left foot on the brake pedal. With a PAIR of metric wrenches, loosen the connection up by the handle bars slightly. Depress the brake pedal, when the pedal reaches the bottom of it's travel, tighten the connection. Pump the pedal SLOWLY a few times, then loosen the connection again and depress the brake pedal. Now go to the front left caliper bleeder and bleed it. Then go to the rear caliper and bleed it. When bleeding the calipers (NOT the connection by the handle bars!) a Vacuum bleeder pump helps a lot. You have two options,

Buy one from Harbor Freight, ($25.00+/-) or go to Advance Auto Parts, use their "loaner tool program" where you pay for the tool, use it, then return it and get a full refund. Either way, a Vacuum pump will make bleeding the calipers a one man job. After you bleed the connection, the front left, then the rear right caliper. let the bike sit for a few hours so the air will gather at the connection again. Then start the process over again. Connection first, front left caliper next, then the rear caliper. It usually takes about 3 days of doing this to get all of the air out. Questions? PM me.

Earl

[Venturous Randy]

Your question is probably, "How are you bleeding the brakes?" and "Do you know the front left caliper is connected to the rear master cylinder as well?"

 

1st- I topped off the Rear master cylinder reservoir with fresh Dot 3.

2nd- With pedal depressed I opened up the bleeder on rear caliper. Some fluid and bubbles came out, so I tightened the bleeder and let off the pedal. Repeated 5 or 6 times.

3rd- I moved onto the front left caliper and with pedal depressed loosened the bleeder waited a few seconds and tightened. No fluid came out for the first 10-15 times I did this until finally... it did. Then I moved back to rear caliper and repeated, front caliper and repeated and so on and so on....

 

 

God Bless

 

If you did this much pumping without refilling the reservior, you may have pumped dry.

RandyA

[Venturerider416]

Skydoc: Thanks so much for the detailed how to! I can't wait to get out there again and get the system bled properly. I will consider getting the Mity Vac.

 

Randya: Good call on catching that I didn't mention refilling the master cylinder reservoir. However, I did make sure that the reservoir was filled throughout the process.

 

BTW, how full should the reservoir be to "top it off"?

 

God Bless,

Chris

[skydoc_17]

Hey Chris,

Welcome to the site, now Pay your $12.00 and be part of our family! With that being said,

After all of the air is removed from the rear brake system, I use a 1000cc Syringe and pull out about 500cc's after I have filled it to the bottom of the threads where the fill bolt goes. What happens is the brake fluid expands in the rear master cylinder reservoir and will lock up the rear brake caliper when hot. After I do ANYTHING to the rear master cylinder, like add fluid, I always carry an 8MM and 12MM boxed end wrench, in case the rear caliper locks up. you can crack the bleeder to relieve the excess pressure with the 8MM or remove the caliper bolts with the 12MM and rock the caliper back and forth to spread the pads. WARNING: The caliper and rotor is going to be blazing hot, smoke um' if you got um' and wait for that puppy to cool down. If you fill the rear reservoir all the way to the threads, it's too full.

Earl

[bongobobny]

Two words, "Vacuum Pump." They work miracles for bleeding the brakes. You may also have a loose connection on a banjo bolt, or your proportional valve may be gummed up...

[Guest seuadr]

Two words, "Vacuum Pump." They work miracles for bleeding the brakes. You may also have a loose connection on a banjo bolt, or your proportional valve may be gummed up...

oh man, he's not just blowing hot air there. i just upgraded my brakes, rebuilt all the cylinders (clutch master, brake master, rear brake master ) and flushed all the fluids. i decided to go to sears when i just couldn't get the clutch to bleed down and pick up a mighty vac for 30 dollars. bled the clutch in around 5 mins (after i figured out how to hook it up!) outstanding investment, imho.

[Venturerider416]

Ok, so I thought I was ready to go this morning, but suddenly realized I was more lost than ever.

 

What fitting "by the handlebars" am I supposed to "crack to release the trapped air"? This one attached to the metering valve...

 

 

or this one?

 

 

Thank you for your patience. So much to learn on this bike.

 

Newbie!

[Rocket]

Ok, so I thought I was ready to go this morning, but suddenly realized I was more lost than ever.

 

What fitting "by the handlebars" am I supposed to "crack to release the trapped air"? This one attached to the metering valve...

 

 

Thank you for your patience. So much to learn on this bike.

 

Newbie!

 

Yup, the metal line coming from the rear master..... Brake fluid will eat though ABS plastic, so put rags below to catch any spillage.....

 

 

The other pic showed an air line for the front forks.

[Venturerider416]

Ok, I went ahead and bought the Mity Vac. It works great on the rear caliper, but...

 

Issue #1: I am not getting any fluid out of the front caliper. There is definitely a lot of air trapped in the lines. However I'm not pretending or would ever assume to be any kind of Venture Linked Braking System Expert so I could be doing something else wrong!

 

I wanted to crack the connection at brake line connected to the metering port, at the neck, which leads me to-

 

Issue #2: The nut on the brake line, attached to the metering port...

This nut...

 

 

...has already been stripped, quite a bit from someone else, and is now even more so after I tried to break it free with a 10mm open ended wrench. I don't see PB Blaster doing the trick on this stuck nut either! Neither did a small pair of vice grips help to make the issue better.

 

Any suggestions?

[Rocket]

Any suggestions?

 

An alternate upper bleed point, is the banjo bolt for the flex line. It is not as easy to get at it, but try accessing it from the top, to see if you can get a wrench on it. If not the right upper fairing will probably need to come off, to get at it.

 

[Monty]

If it's not too bad, a 10mm line wrench might work. If it's too bad, then vice grips, or a pair of the channel lock brand blue channel locks, with the curved grip will have to do the trick. I have the above mentioned channel lock pliers, and they are worth their weight in gold.

[Venturerider416]

If it's not too bad, a 10mm line wrench might work. If it's too bad, then vice grips, or a pair of the channel lock brand blue channel locks, with the curved grip will have to do the trick. I have the above mentioned channel lock pliers, and they are worth their weight in gold.

 

Hi guys,

 

I went to Sears to purchase the 10mm Flare Nut or Line Wrench, but I can't justify spending $19.00 on it if the nut is too far gone/rounded for the wrench to work. So I might borrow it from a mechanic friend this Saturday to try it or buy a set of channel locks.

 

Monty, exactly which channel locks are you talking about? I'd love to get a set!

 

Thanks

[Monty]

http://www.channellock.com/acb/stores/1/410_-_9_5_inch_NUTBUSTER_reg__P34.cfm

[Venturerider416]

Thanks Monty,

 

Went to Sears and purchased a similiar set but it's not budging! I am attempting to take the entire line off with the Metering port but that opened another can of worms... the Banjo bolt on the Metering Port will not budge either. Uggh!

[Guest seuadr]

sounds like time to delink the brakes and tell that rounded off nut where to stick it!

 

it may take a while, but unless the lines are blocked, the mity vac should actually pull the air through the proportioning valve. be prepared to cycle alot of brake fluid, though.

 

when i was working on my brakes, there is a bleeder that is right up next to the handlebars (on the 87, anyhow) that i sucked through, it pulled fluid out, i believe it leads to that proportioning valve. might try there, if you have it.

[Rocket]

when i was working on my brakes, there is a bleeder that is right up next to the handlebars (on the 87, anyhow) that i sucked through, it pulled fluid out, i believe it leads to that proportioning valve. might try there, if you have it.

 

No upper bleeder installed in the 83 -85 model years.

[KenP]

I have followed the procedure on my 1983 Venture Royale regarding the brake bleeding sequence, but still have a "soft" pedal. I am getting some rear braking, but not very much. I did the sequence as follows:

 

1. Meter Valve bleed.

2. Front left caliper.

3. Front left Anti-Dive.

4. Rear caliper.

 

I made absolutely sure the master cylinder was near full, repeated the above sequence 3 times, and still have soft braking, despite seeing clean fluid and no air bubbles through the bleeders. Rode around the neighborhood and applied the brakes numerous times. Had to use the front right caliper to do any meaningful stopping.

 

Can any of you guys that have more "grey hair" than I do after doing this convoluted procedure chime in and let me know what I am doing wrong?

[bkuhr]

Can take a bit (few tries) for any air trapped in lines to work out to the bleeders.

Suggest keep trying:2cents:

[KenP]

I'll let it sit overnight and try again tomorrow. Good test of one's patience!!

[Saddle_Bag]

I believe the company is Russell..... They make stainless steel lines for M/c's. Check at a dealer, or on line, they sell a SS line with a built in bleeder. The line from the metering valve to the left front caliper. I also replaced the master cylinder with one off of 87 (I think). I think that was the year. Got it used from a cycle salvage in Ohio. Slightly bigger, but if you turn it right it will slide right in. Bleeding the brakes on the 84 now is a breeze. The parts are still available for the 87 master cyl. Good Luck, joe