Has anyone here turned a first gen Venture into a Royal Star?

[Guest Provoker]

I was looking to buy a cruiser when I discovered that my old 83 Venture Royale is basicly the same as a V-max or a Royal Star, and so I have decided to strip all the plastic off of it, and turn it into a Royal Star.

Is there anything I should be aware of before I start?

[muffinman]

I was looking to buy a cruiser when I discovered that my old 83 Venture Royale is basicly the same as a V-max or a Royal Star, and so I have decided to strip all the plastic off of it, and turn it into a Royal Star.

Is there anything I should be aware of before I start?

Why would you want to do that to your 83?

If you have ever seen the bike totaly stripped of plastic you would realize that they look much better dressed up.The biggest problem is the air filter box you got to have it or 4 smaller airfilters for the motor to run properly.

Jeff

[Guest Provoker]

Why would I do that??? Because I can't leave anything alone...LOL

What does a Royal Star use for an air box.

[pegscraper]

I'm also one who can't leave well enough alone sometimes. But this would be - a real project. Here is a what a Royal Star airbox looks like. It won't fit your carbs at all. The hole spacing is wrong, and the rubber boots are the wrong diameter. These carbs are angled in towards the center at the top and the airbox is designed to match, where yours are vertical and plumb. And this is only the beginning. It would be easier and probably cheaper too, to just buy a Royal Star and hop it up a little. Mine is making a dyno proven 90 rear wheel hp.

[Squeeze]

Hi,

 

or you can use a Fake Tank Cover from a Vmax to cover the Airbox, and as well the Scoops on both Sides.

[Guest Provoker]

I should clarify that I only want to turn my VR into a cruiser "in the style of" a Royal Star. I have never been a fairing and windshield kind of guy...LOL

I just purchased a beautifully shaped Kawasaki Nomad gas tank on ebay. I plan to cut the bottom out of it, and use it to replace the panel which currently covers the air box, battery, and gas cap. I want the faux gas tank to sit as low as possible without covering the carb diaphram covers, so I will have to get rid of the stock air box, and relocate the battery. There should be enough space in the sides of the Nomad tank to fabricate air boxes.

[fixit3546]

Sounds like fun, keep us up on the project.

[GeorgeS]

It would be much eaiser to just find a good used V-Max. Get the 83 running, sell it, put the money from that towards the V. After its all done, you will probably spend about the same amount of money.

[Guest Provoker]

Hello George:

If "easier" was the goal, I would probably die without living...LOL

An 83 Venture appears to be worth around $1500, and an old V-max would probably be worth around $3000. Insurance is probably higher on a V-max than a VR, and I still would not have the cruiser style that I am looking for.

Changing a VR to a RS will be a trip, and I always find the trip to be just as enjoyable as the destination.

I single carbed my 750 Virago, by fabricating my own manifold, years ago, and I still ride it with a pride and satisfaction that you can't get from simply buying something.

[Squeeze]

.....

I single carbed my 750 Virago, by fabricating my own manifold, years ago, and I still ride it with a pride and satisfaction that you can't get from simply buying something.

 

I know what you're talking about :D :D :D :D :D

[pegscraper]

I single carbed my 750 Virago, by fabricating my own manifold, years ago, and I still ride it...

 

I'd be VERY interested in knowing how you went about making your own manifolds. How did you figure how much bigger to go with the carb, since it needed to feed both cylinders?

[dynodon]

I understand your need for a project more than just buying a new bike! LOL

 

to help you along, I once found a tech article, on the Venturers site I think, about moving the battery down to where the lower cover is in front of the oil filter. Pretty neat mod to lower top weight by a fair amount.

[GeorgeS]

Yes, but the 83 will never really be a cruizer, will it. Sits to high, foot position not right, etc etc.

 

Now think hard about a V-Max. Same rideing position, add some leather bags, and a good windshield, ( I know you won't have a fairing ) , But !!

 

YOU GOT OVER 110 HP!!!! And maby even more with a little tinkering,

 

OH well, give it a little more serious consideration. Lots of low milage V-Max's out there owened by folks that have chickend out.

 

Question: How many Ponies do you want ?? you can find a good used Busa, for about 5K.

 

How old are you? I pay same insurance on my fast bike as my Venture, ( but then I'm an old foggie )

[Guest Provoker]

I'd be VERY interested in knowing how you went about making your own manifolds. How did you figure how much bigger to go with the carb, since it needed to feed both cylinders?

 

Hello pegscraper:

The single carb does not need to be any bigger because only one carb is used at a time with twin carbs.

The disadvantage with twin carbs is that the manifold vacuum falls to zero during the exhaust stroke, and part of the intake stroke is wasted drawing manifold vacuum down again.

The advantage of a single carb/single manifold setup is that since the carb is in use on every revolution, and the manifold vacuum is maintained, making aspiration more efficient.

I simply used one of the stock carbs, bored out main jet, and shimmed up the jet needle.

I can't detect any difference in performance, but having only half the spring tension on the throttle, and no more carb balance problems made the whole thing worth it.

Maybe I'll try a two barrel automobile carb on my project bike...LOL

Incidently, I'm told that the only reason that imported bikes have a carb per cylinder is that with individually tuned cylinders it is easier to meet *import* standards.

[Guest Provoker]

Yes, but the 83 will never really be a cruizer, will it. Sits to high, foot position not right, etc etc.

 

George George:

You cut me to the quick:-)

I intend to lower the seating position by about 3", and peg positions are easily changed. You have probably figured out by now that I am not a bolt on customizer...LOL

I added an extra set of foot pegs to my Virago to make it more comfortable.

[Guest Provoker]

Now think hard about a V-Max. Same rideing position,

 

Hello George:

I'm old enough that I'm getting the old age pension, and regarding the seating position of a Vmax, have a look at this picture:

[Squeeze]

Well,

 

do what you have to do ....

 

Only Thing, Air Box, i sincerly do not recommend messing around with the Stock Airbox. These Engines are very sensitive in this Matter, a custom made Airbox will definetly give you a Lot of Headache. Better Idea would be to go for a complete Dynojet Stage7 Set, individual Airfilters and some gained Horses....

 

Other than this, there a forward Controls for the Max, they might fit also to 1Gen. As i own both, i can tell you, there is not so much Difference in the general Seat and Pegs Positions. but the Difference between Seat height and Pegs height on the Max is shorter, there is more Stress on the Muscles than on 1Gen.

 

Other Questions rise as i think over it. What about Electrics around the Steering Head, ok, Battery can be moved, but the other Components ? The Wireing Harness would not fit for rewireing everything to the front Light. All the Relays behind the Windshield would have to have another Place. Dashboard has to go completly, another serious rewireing Job. New Speedo, Tach? and Controls have to be rewired.

Lowering the Seat 3 Inches ? That's a real Challenge. Serious cut and reweld Job. What about the Tank ? You will need a Vmax Tank, that's just 15 Liters/3.93 US gal .... What to do with the Water Hoses ?

 

btw .... a Vmax has some 140 Horses on the Clutch, around 125 HP on the rear Wheel and would give you a way better Base to start with.

 

please understand ...

 

I really appreciate what your thinking about, but believe me, i did a Lot of Work tuning my Max and know what we're talking about, this is more a 400 than 300 working Hours Job. And i have a Lot of Parts fitted to Bolt on ...Not counted all the Hours when you think, sketch, rethink, resketch, measuring, visiting Junk Yards searching for a fitting Part and so on. Not to mention all the Tools needed to give all your Effort a showable Style and Outcome. A Lathe, a Milling Machine, TIG-Welder and a Lot of other Metal Shaping Tools are in Order.

[pegscraper]

I kinda wondered about the carb size thing. I understand about the airflow not being constant.

 

Now how did you go about making the manifold?

 

 

 

Hello pegscraper:

The single carb does not need to be any bigger because only one carb is used at a time with twin carbs.

The disadvantage with twin carbs is that the manifold vacuum falls to zero during the exhaust stroke, and part of the intake stroke is wasted drawing manifold vacuum down again.

The advantage of a single carb/single manifold setup is that since the carb is in use on every revolution, and the manifold vacuum is maintained, making aspiration more efficient.

I simply used one of the stock carbs, bored out main jet, and shimmed up the jet needle.

I can't detect any difference in performance, but having only half the spring tension on the throttle, and no more carb balance problems made the whole thing worth it.

Maybe I'll try a two barrel automobile carb on my project bike...LOL

Incidently, I'm told that the only reason that imported bikes have a carb per cylinder is that with individually tuned cylinders it is easier to meet *import* standards.

[Guest Provoker]

I kinda wondered about the carb size thing. I understand about the airflow not being constant.

 

Now how did you go about making the manifold?

 

Hello pegscraper:

I made several manifolds before I got one that I was satisfied with.

For the first model I made springlike coils of mechanic's wire by wrapping the wire on a pipe(sort of like a slinky). I stuck a short piece of steel tubing into each manifold and ran a spiral of wire from one to the other. I spiralled another coil into the side of that and ran it to the carb which I had mounted elsewhere. Then I fiberglassed over the coiled wire. It made a beautiful manifold but I scrapped it because I got a lot of backfiring through the carb during the first trials. The maniflold would light up like a halloween pumpkin and I was afraid it would catch fire. I may go back to that type of manifold now that I have the engine running perfectly.

For my current manifold I stripped the rubber off the aluminum manifold flanges, mounted them on the cylinders, and slid a piece of steel tubing right through each one. I then cut and ground pieces of tubing to fit between them, adding a branch to mount the carb on. I tacked the tubing together in place, removed it and welded it up. I reinstalled it and fiberglassed the steel tubing to the aluminum flanges, and have been running it for the third year.

The carb sticks out the left hand side, pointing slightly forward, where I can actually play with it while I am riding. After a lot of fiddling I finally got it tuned properly, and it starts quicker and runs smoother than I remember it ever running with 2 carbs.

I ride it 140 miles every Wednesday, to meet my brother for lunch. Today it was cold and overcast, and I loved every minute...LOL

[pegscraper]

Interesting, interesting. I have had a few carb swap ideas, but didn't have any idea how to make a manifold. It sounds like a big project making them, but I still think there's more performance lurking in this engine than the current size carbs can deliver.

 

I see how you connected the manifold to the engine, but how did you connect the manifold to the carb?

[Guest Provoker]

Well,

 

do what you have to do ....

 

Only Thing, Air Box, i sincerly do not recommend messing around with the Stock Airbox. These Engines are very sensitive in this Matter, a custom made Airbox will definetly give you a Lot of Headache. Better Idea would be to go for a complete Dynojet Stage7 Set, individual Airfilters and some gained Horses....

 

Other than this, there a forward Controls for the Max, they might fit also to 1Gen. As i own both, i can tell you, there is not so much Difference in the general Seat and Pegs Positions. but the Difference between Seat height and Pegs height on the Max is shorter, there is more Stress on the Muscles than on 1Gen.

 

Other Questions rise as i think over it. What about Electrics around the Steering Head, ok, Battery can be moved, but the other Components ? The Wireing Harness would not fit for rewireing everything to the front Light. All the Relays behind the Windshield would have to have another Place. Dashboard has to go completly, another serious rewireing Job. New Speedo, Tach? and Controls have to be rewired.

Lowering the Seat 3 Inches ? That's a real Challenge. Serious cut and reweld Job. What about the Tank ? You will need a Vmax Tank, that's just 15 Liters/3.93 US gal .... What to do with the Water Hoses ?

 

btw .... a Vmax has some 140 Horses on the Clutch, around 125 HP on the rear Wheel and would give you a way better Base to start with.

 

please understand ...

 

I really appreciate what your thinking about, but believe me, i did a Lot of Work tuning my Max and know what we're talking about, this is more a 400 than 300 working Hours Job. And i have a Lot of Parts fitted to Bolt on ...Not counted all the Hours when you think, sketch, rethink, resketch, measuring, visiting Junk Yards searching for a fitting Part and so on. Not to mention all the Tools needed to give all your Effort a showable Style and Outcome. A Lathe, a Milling Machine, TIG-Welder and a Lot of other Metal Shaping Tools are in Order.

 

Hello squeeze:

I appreciate your concern but I look forward to the challenge of making my VR into a cruiser.

I plan to remove most of the electronic features of the VR and rewire the whole thing. I plan to install the faux tank first and then modify the sub-frame so that the stock seat will blend with the flow of the tank lines. I plan to get a cruiser type rear fender, bring it right down close to the rear tire, and fasten it to the swing arm. This will leave the double seat cantilevered above the fender like the old sprung seat Harleys.

If the V-max tank is smaller than the VR tank, that will be great because I will get one. Otherwise I am planning to either fabricate a new tank or get a collapsible fuel cell.

I plan to install a conventional set of cruiser type handlebars, and since the steering head on the VR is a few inches higher than on a RS, I will not need risers. I plan to mount a speedo, and possibly a tach, onto the handlebar clamps.

Did I mentiion that I am a millwright/machinist by trade, and I own a lathe with a milling attachment, and welding equipement?

[Guest Provoker]

...how did you connect the manifold to the carb?

 

Hello pegscraper:

Since the carbs are designed to be shoved into a rubber sleeve which is bonded to the manifold flange, I simple made the manifold inlet the same diameter as the carb outlet, and joined them with a piece of rubber hose.

Real tight hose clamps hold the carb in place very well.

[pegscraper]

Pics always help. Do you have larger versions of those? They're a bit small to see what's happening. I also have a mill and a lathe at home. I had wondered about turning out some flanges to go against the carbs. I can mill out some aluminum to use as bases on the heads. But I couldn't figure out a way to connect the two.

[Squeeze]

Hello squeeze:

I appreciate your concern but I look forward to the challenge of making my VR into a cruiser.

I plan to remove most of the electronic features of the VR and rewire the whole thing. I plan to install the faux tank first and then modify the sub-frame so that the stock seat will blend with the flow of the tank lines. I plan to get a cruiser type rear fender, bring it right down close to the rear tire, and fasten it to the swing arm. This will leave the double seat cantilevered above the fender like the old sprung seat Harleys.

If the V-max tank is smaller than the VR tank, that will be great because I will get one. Otherwise I am planning to either fabricate a new tank or get a collapsible fuel cell.

I plan to install a conventional set of cruiser type handlebars, and since the steering head on the VR is a few inches higher than on a RS, I will not need risers. I plan to mount a speedo, and possibly a tach, onto the handlebar clamps.

Did I mentiion that I am a millwright/machinist by trade, and I own a lathe with a milling attachment, and welding equipement?

 

Hey, this sounds like a Plan !!

 

 

And, if you're equipped like you mentioned, this Plan has a good Chance to become Reality.

 

I'm really looking forward to see the Outcome !! :cool10::cool10:

 

 

As for the rewireing, if you get yourself a Vmax Wireing Harness, the most Base Parts are wired to Places where they will end up in your Plan. Might be helpfull. Also, the Connectors mostly fit their Venture's Parts opposites. Remember the 1Gen was the Mother of the Vmax, and there is just no need to reinvent the Wheel. TCI sits under the Steering head, Flasher Relay and other Relays under the left Scoop, Starter Solenoid and Battery under the Driver's Seat.

[Guest Provoker]

Pics always help. Do you have larger versions of those? They're a bit small to see what's happening. I also have a mill and a lathe at home. I had wondered about turning out some flanges to go against the carbs. I can mill out some aluminum to use as bases on the heads. But I couldn't figure out a way to connect the two.

 

Hello pegscraper:

A digital camera is a handy thing:-)