Gear Whine-Final Result-25 percent better.

[Guest KitCarson]

We are just back from Santee, rode down and spent two hours in Cayce's garage, Got a new yamaha clutch assembly, basket and the works. Have something quite interesting to tell all of you. So let me get that done first. (the clutch is not the problem)

As you know I have been playing around with a thicker oil. This has helped, not as hoped for, but has helped, but at the same time Cayce my motorcycle mechanic and old fishing pal, has been busy obtaining a new clutch assembly for me. I have also paid him in kind with a brand new air impact wrench and a set of metric 1/2 inch drive sockets.

It only took him about an hour and a half to switch to the new clutch assembly, and this is the interesting thing. Some of you have already stated that even after changing out the clutch assembly your whine really did not go away, it just moved to a different rpm. Moved the sound so to speak, made it more tolerable. So as both of us are always quite curious to find an answer, here it is. With the clutch and main assembly removed, and a plastic bag taped over the opening to stop oil from flying around, we fired Cricket up! Even with the clutch totally removed, there is that characteristic whine sound of the actual motor working. It varies from non existent at idle to where you can hear it as you vary the throttle up to about 2000 rpm. We did not romp on it, but have determined it is not the clutch causing the problem. What is happening is this particular motor has a specific sound, a resonance, a particular harmonic sound if you will, this new clutch assembly has a slightly different size and it moves the harmonics to a lower rpm level. This is why some of you have stated that the whine did not go away it just moved. More on this in a minute.

 

With everything back in place and the new assembly all installed and everything properly torqued, and after getting a lecture on not to be putting any straight 50 weight motor oil in the assembly, we again changed the filter, and put in exactly this time 125 ounce of total volume of 20w50 Mobil One, with 12.5 ounces of this being Lucas Oil additive. This works out to 3.906 quarts. Yamaha recommends 3.91 quarts. We are close, prefer to work with even numbers. Yes this volume with filter will totally close over the sight glass when sitting still. But with the motor running it is perfectly between the proper marks on the sight glass. So we have decided although the manual does not state so, the oil should be observed while the motor is running. (This again is just our observation)

 

So going down to Santee with my original oil mix in the Motor and gear box, it does run somewhat more quiet, especially in the higher range of the gear rpm.

Coming back, yep we still have the whine but it has as others have stated, moved. But with the oil and lucas , and the different assembly, it totally is non existent at certain times and gear rpm.

 

Results are like as follows: In the lower gears and lower rpm, honestly there is not one iota of change. At low town speeds, 30 to 45 or 50 mph, the whine is still there. But again let me stress, it is not the clutch, this has been being mis-diagnosed for a long time, why I do not know, just has been is all. The motor and gear drive has a particular resonance that is unique to it, it varies with rpm. But as you increase speed it gets better and better!!. At 60 mph in 4th gear it is gone, all you can hear is the slight sound of the motor and you really have to listen to hear this, you begin to hear the whoosh of the wind and the quiet low rumble of the stock pipes. (I never could hear that at high speed before) as you push it on up to 65 mph and shift into 5th gear and take it on up to 70 mph the sound is completely gone, at 80 it does not return, it is a joy to listen to the motor work at that speed and hear the bike run. However as you shift between 4th and 5th gears and if you do not power it on up to 70 right away, if you dawdle , the whine will come back......until you get above 70 again.

What is happening is you are dropping to a lower rpm, and allowing the resonance to return.

 

I hope this explains more thoroughly what is the real cause of the whine, and to those who find it objectionable, a means to run the bike in a manner that will resolve most of it. No at lower rpm, and speeds it does not go away, and honestly I do not think it ever will. This is just a characteristic of the motor. For whatever design reason, and combination of a lot of things, it has this characteristic sound.

 

By using a heavier oil, we improved the original problem by I would say about 10 percent. By moving the rpm range up with the new clutch assembly, it has improved in the low rpm range only slightly , but is dramatic in the high end rpm range of the gears. If you run 60 in 4th and not be running 25 to 30 in 4th, and the bike will do it easy, it has the power, but move the rpm range up, the whine will just fade out at this speed and rpm range. We have not changed the rear end, do not intend to, but some have said this has also helped. This does the exact same thing, causes you to run a little more rpm in each gear to obtain the same speed, therefore keeping you more in the power band.

 

Does this help anyone? I am done playing with it, I was doing this as I was just totally curious and fascinated with this thing. I will continue to run 20w50 as this helps some, no does not cure it, but does quiet the motor some. I do not feel the so called whine will ever totally diss-appear , but if kept in the right rpm range, it can be almost eliminated totally at higher speeds. In fact if I did not have stock exhaust, I would not be able to hear it at all, and another thing. I have noticed some of the resonance is worse at low speeds, like in an alley way, between or next to a big truck.

 

Bottom line , and my honest opinion. All big bikes have some motor noise, all of them(I will agree Honda is the quietest) this one has its own particular sound, I do not find it objectionable myself. I have gotten used to it some I suppose, but coming home, it was not at all bad. It would go completely way at any speed above 60 mph, as long as you did not lug the motor and kept the rpm up.

 

We love the new venture, we are running 5psi in the front shocks, and 25 psi in the back one, she runs straight, strong and true. We will run the wheels off this one and get another in five years. I have ran a lot of big bikes, cruisers like this included and none have the response and comfort all put into one like this one does. Coming home, we could talk to each other, and hear, we do not use the intercom , or even turn the radio on, riding a bike is about getting out, listening to the motor, enjoying the bubble of the pipes as you use the gears to down-shift and slow around the corner. We could not hear like this before either, if this helps illustrate the difference.

 

To us Cricket is 99 percent......nothing is perfect, we like her just fine.

 

Respectfully

 

Kit

[eagleeye]

Kit,

I was trying to think of how to begin.

first of all, I have never read posts more interesting and informative than yours on this whine thing.

I jsut bought a 2005 RSTD and have put 8 miles on it last weekend, I'll pick it up next weekend.

I have heard no whine, BUT--I have one thing going for me, I am quite hard of hearing.

I thank the main man for not having to hear all of the bad noises in this world that we live in. (there has got to be something good about getting older

There is only 5000mi on this bike, so the oil has been changed once, regular yamaha oil.

I have been trying to decide which oil to start using in this bike.

With your input, I'm thinking I'll use 20/50 mix of sythetic and 10% lucas addative.

 

Thanks for your input,

 

Steve

[hig4s]

Why use a mix of synthetic and regular????

It seems to me if you are mixing you are losing most of the benefits of synth, longer oil change intervals and less thermal breakdown. Because the part that is regular will still wear out and break down as it always did.

[Guest KitCarson]

Kit,

I was trying to think of how to begin.

first of all, I have never read posts more interesting and informative than yours on this whine thing.

I jsut bought a 2005 RSTD and have put 8 miles on it last weekend, I'll pick it up next weekend.

I have heard no whine, BUT--I have one thing going for me, I am quite hard of hearing.

I thank the main man for not having to hear all of the bad noises in this world that we live in. (there has got to be something good about getting older

There is only 5000mi on this bike, so the oil has been changed once, regular yamaha oil.

I have been trying to decide which oil to start using in this bike.

With your input, I'm thinking I'll use 20/50 mix of sythetic and 10% lucas addative.

 

Thanks for your input,

 

Steve

 

Hi Steve: I have tried just about everything known to mankind, but up where you live it does get colder. Standard Yamaha 4 I think they call it is like 15w40. If you have no whine, I would suggest no heavier than that.

 

I also think that one of the differences between the Venture and the RSTD is the windshield and the fairings. I did not want to get into that a lot as that is a whole different subject, but I do know the windshield and fairing do tend to magnify the sounds of the engine and gear box. Some of these bikes do tend to be more noisy than others. I have not given up, said I was done messing with it for now.....but have not given up. There is a specific something causing this harmonics sound, as some are more noisy than others, I just have not put my finger on it yet. I will pester every mechanic I can talk to, really do not want to take my new bike apart and break the case, this is the only way you can look at the engine as a whole.......but maybe a used one already torn down.....will run into one one day. Ventures and RSTD machines seem to be real reliable, do not have motor or transmission problems, the worst will be a fuel pump, battery cable, light bulb or some simple something to fix.

Take Care Kit

[Guest KitCarson]

Why use a mix of synthetic and regular????

It seems to me if you are mixing you are losing most of the benefits of synth, longer oil change intervals and less thermal breakdown. Because the part that is regular will still wear out and break down as it always did.

Hi Al: I will behave and not tell you I am conserving energy this time. I did not mean to be a smart ass, I just could not resist. :rotf:Actually I talked to everyone who would put up with me about oils. There are a lot of opinions and not a lot of facts. Opinions were not helping me, I needed facts. I visited the library, looked on the internet, called many oil distributors, even got different so called facts from the same distributors.

 

However the common things with oil is synthetic clings to the working parts of the engine and gears better than just standard oil. It also coats the sidewalls of the cylinders and stays put better, so if your bike sits for a couple days, some oil is still on the cylinder walls, so it cuts down on wear some. This is why you will see large diesel engines such a locomotives and big cranes, never ever shut down, the wear is not from the engine running, but from the cold start up. Now at the same time synthetic will become thin quicker, will begin to flow at its lowest viscosity rating when it gets hot. So it will not maintain the heavier base. I was looking to make the oil cling to the transmission gears. So by using a blend such as Syntec 20w40 which is Castrol I think, most likely the same oil in a different bottle with a different dye. I was obtaining also a standard oil in the blend that would not break down to its lower viscosity and would maintain a heavier base.

 

That was my reasoning, and hey I am not any scientist, I just look at things with a open mind and throw most opinions out the door. I do love facts though.......Bottom line is the oil mix did help, some , not a dramatic improvement I had hoped for, about 10 percent, maybe a little more, we changed the clutch and basket assembly today, I understand why it is called a basket now that I have seen it. In combination with this, and the oil.....it has greatly helped. And hey we used Mobil One 20w50 today when we put it all back together , along with the 10 percent lucas.

This is a full synthetic.........no blend........it is about the same, about a 10 percent improvement.........I am convinced it is the heavier oil and the lucas that helps. Has nothing to do with the blend, and 20w50 oil is 20w50 oil, there is really not a lot of difference in it.

 

Bottom line, I think you have to learn to live with a little engine noise with these bikes. I do not think it will ever go away at the lower rpm scale. I am still looking though. I am going to have to stop this nonsense next week and mow the grass........go do some work.............Take Care Kit

[hig4s]

I used Mobil 1 20w-50 without any additives and my whine went from always noticable and quite loud at 70, to hardly noticiable at any speed. At least I'm happy!!1:bighug:

[Guest KitCarson]

I used Mobil 1 20w-50 without any additives and my whine went from always noticable and quite loud at 70, to hardly noticiable at any speed. At least I'm happy!!1

These are the kind of facts that are a great help. I still think the right oil will quiet these bikes, may be somewhat different with each one.....but again the common equation does seem to be slightly heavier, such as the 20w50. This is not a recommended oil though by yamaha........their manual recommends at the highest a 20w40.........not that I am concerned , not with a bike built like a tank........just that if one did have a warranty situation, might be wise to not open mouth and stick in foot!! I am aware of all these things, I know people read just about everything about this whine, so I can say it one place and they will read it. Like I told everyone, I live in the south, we have runny oil down here, it does not get like molasses sitting in the garage.

 

I am happy too, I love the new bike. That is mainly why I have worked so hard to solve this situation.......the better rep a machine gets, the more it is discussed, more it is in the public eye. good or bad, the more popular it becomes.......so maybe the next one.......they will solve it at the factory.

 

Kit

[dynodon]

I don't know who told you that synthetic will thin to the lower number on the rating at temperature, but they are wrong.

 

A 20-50 oil is 20 weight at room temp and 50 at test temperature.

 

A regular oil will behave the same as synthetic, but synthetic won't thin out as much at higher temps or with age as a regular oil.

 

There are real benefits to synthetics, but quality regular oil changed at proper intervals is still very good for all engines.

 

Don

[Guest KitCarson]

I don't know who told you that synthetic will thin to the lower number on the rating at temperature, but they are wrong.

 

A 20-50 oil is 20 weight at room temp and 50 at test temperature.

 

A regular oil will behave the same as synthetic, but synthetic won't thin out as much at higher temps or with age as a regular oil.

 

There are real benefits to synthetics, but quality regular oil changed at proper intervals is still very good for all engines.

 

Don

I agree with you on the age of oil, always have. A lot of the synthetic oils will say on the bottle, good for 15,000 miles, mobil one used to say some huge number, this is all a bunch of nonsense. Again no one uses common sense. Besides lubrication of the engine and transmission , oil becomes contaminated and all the small particles and contaminants from the products of combustion that gradually work past the rings and into the oil, slowly contaminate it and you get dirty oil. And yes regular oil changed at proper intervals is great for any engine, this is the key for any oil, whether it be a high dollar synthetic or it is walmart economy no brand oil. Yes it is very, very important to change the oil at regular intervals, and not listen to some claims by some companies. There is always some product out there trying to catch you in a weak moment or a lazy one :rotf:and try to convince you of something. It is never true. As for the how low or how high an oil is at temp...........there are so many opinions about this, you cannot count them all, facts are hard to come by, and the facts become quite complicated also. A synthetic is like you said designed to be at its lowest viscosity at room temp, this is to help on cold start up, wear comes in a motor from the initial start up. And it maintains its highest viscosity at temp as you have stated...........this is a common denominator among all synthetic oils..........but also, synthetic at high temps and under loads does other things.......very good, such as thin out and get in all the little spaces in bearings........but when trying to maintain cling on cut gears a whole other bunch of criteria come into play......it gets real complicated!! Regular oil on the other hand is like molasses at start up, thick as pudding in cold weather, and as it gets hot, and you blend it with synthetic, more opinions!! This is where the Lucas oil additive came into play. Now good grief we have some person with a web article, spinning oils with this additive at a high speed, with little tiny gears, and trying to make whipped cream out of it and telling us lucas oil additive is bad for motors.

 

A beer or two with a friend, working on a bike in the garage is good, a case of them is bad..........there is an extreme, and an opinion each way.......

 

I like to use common sense and when people tell me , hey Kit oil breaks down with age, this oil is better than that oil. This one does this better, or this one lasts twice as long........I ignore all that nonsense , change my oil on a regular basis, do not worry about age and breaking down, do not give it a chance, I do not let it go 4000 miles like the manual tells you to do on almost all bikes.....Honda, yamaha, suzuki........almost all the manuals say 4000 miles....I use 3000, and the oil is still generally somewhat clear at this point....take it to 4000 and it gets black as coal.

 

Yes there are a lot of opinions, a lot of mixed up facts.......bottom line is 20w50, with or without an additive it seems does quiet these bikes down some. It is your choice to use it or not, Like I have told everyone, and no one seems to read or listen, I live in the south........20w50 is above the range recommended by yamaha.........but it works , and in the southern states.......is okay..........take a bike out in a zero day........sit in traffic in a snowmobile suit.......stop let it cool, make short trips.........thinner is better in those conditions. See just in this paragraph there are a bunch of variables....forget them all.......use thin in cold weather....use thick in hot, I suppose if I lived up north and wanted to use my bike during the winter I would simply during the cold months change to 10w30, and switch to 20w50 the first spring day it stayed above 65 degrees. So many people, some many ideas.......we are in the technology age.......I am trying not to sink..may need a life jacket soon:sign20:.

 

Again we are dealing with a high quality motorcylce, the cut gears do whine, (actually cut refers to design-square faced)but they last. and last, and mine was one of the loud ones, I suspect it is one of the normal ones now. The 50 weight oil works, no does not cure it, and I do not think it ever will.....but it certainly has really, really helped, my whine was high pitched and ear splitting at speed. .......I may have made some mistakes, several of us may have.........I dont care, make them all the time:rotf::rotf:but I will try, I will experiment, never have been one to sit back and watch, yep I will make the occasional mistake and fall on my face, no problem, just try again!!

 

Take Care. Kit

[Guest KitCarson]

I don't know who told you that synthetic will thin to the lower number on the rating at temperature, but they are wrong.

 

A 20-50 oil is 20 weight at room temp and 50 at test temperature.

 

A regular oil will behave the same as synthetic, but synthetic won't thin out as much at higher temps or with age as a regular oil.

 

There are real benefits to synthetics, but quality regular oil changed at proper intervals is still very good for all engines.

 

Don

Hi Don: Hey I forgot......was going to tell you also.....I am not done, fixing to go fishing today, up early waiting on my always late fishing buddy.........and thinking about this whole situation again. Where is this resonance coming from......you know with a stethascope, it is loudest at the clutch housing, but is still there with the whole clucth and basket removed, but a higher pitch with everything installed..........hum.....what you think about an insulated clutch cover?.....there is not much room in there......take out the oil fill and there are the friction discs ....See I will keep at it. Kit

[Guest tone100]

You must have a different whine than me. If I'm riding down the road at 40 I hear the whine. If I pull in the clutch its gone. So basically the clutch has to be engaged to hear the sound. If you had the clutch removed and still heard it then I don't think its the same thing I'm hearing. Nice research though. I might try the heavier oil. Once I put new pipes on the bike I hardly hear it. I think they give me something to listen to instead of tryign to listen for the whine after reading about it.

[SilvrT]

I don't have this so-called whine primarilly because I ride a 1st gen!

 

All kidding aside though, both my 1st gen's have their own bothersome sounds .... the 85 had a real bad whine at a certain rpm range (I think it was 2900-3000) regardless of what the speed was. My 87 has a deceleration whine. My Gold Wing ('83) had a rear end whine. I've come to the realization that regardless of the bike, there's always going to be some kind of bothersome sound simply because all of the mechanical components are out in the open. The best way I found to overcome these bothersome sounds is... a) put on louder pipes -or- b) wear a 3/4 helmet that covers your ears -or- c) crank the tunes up -or- d) put ear plugs in. Methods c & d being the least expensive.

[Freebird]

I've been reading all of this excellent information Kit and want to thank you for all the testing that you have done for all of us. When it is all said and done though, I going to borrow a line from Jamie of "Mythbusters" and say "I choose to deny your reality and substitute my own."

 

Seriously, I agree with a whole lot of what you have posted but with one HUGE exception. Since these bikes came out in 1999 and I bought my first one in May of that year, I've seen and listened to literally hundreds of them. There are major differences in the levels and type of sounds. I think that pretty much everything you said is true of the loud and sometimes high pitched "whine" that many folks complain about. My '99 has a bit of that. I've always run Mobil 1 motorcycle specific in my '99 and do not find the while to be objectionable.

 

BUT...the sound that I know to be caused by the clutch basket is entirely different and present at various speeds, rpms and even at idle. I know it when I hear it. I lived in Dallas, TX when Rick Butler bought his first 2nd gen. He came by one day to show it to me and as soon as he pulled into my relatively long driveway, I heard it. When he pulled under my breezeway I still heard it and the first thing Rick asked me was "do you hear that". YES...and it is NOT normal. Also, Rick is one of the most knowledgeable people that I know when it comes to the Venture. He has been riding them since '83 I think and knows them pretty much inside and out. He too knew that this was NOT a normal sound. He did get his pretty much remedied after I think TWO clutch basket swaps. The sound that is caused by a bad clutch basket is not so much of a whine as it is a high pitched chirping sound. The best way that I can describe it is a high pitched warbling sound, almost like a canary. This is the sound that I KNOW can be eliminated or drastically reduced with a clutch basket change.

 

I've said it many times but I still think it is true. There are two different issues with these bikes that folks get intertwined that are totally non-related. High pitched warbling sound caused by the clutch basket and a whine caused by the straight cut gears. The whine from the straight cut gears can be reduced exactly as you have done. The high pitched warbling sound is absolutely not corrected by any brand, weight or type of oil.

 

So there you are. That is my story after also looking at this issue for almost 10 years.

[gibvel]

Yeah, what Don said. I've been reading these posts and thinking....."okay, is this the whine or the chirps he's talking about here". With my chirp, I hear it at different stages. in 3rd it's bad from 45 to 50. Goes away completely at 50. In 4th from 55 to 60. Thing is, if I'm tooling along in 4th, at 55, if I back off of the throttle slightly, to maintain speed, or if I back off because I'm going down an incline it goes away completely. Engine RPM only slows slightly, clutch still engaged. If I put the throttle on again, there it is again. To me this suggests that, when the primary drive gear on the basket is actually pushing against the mating gear, the chirp is prevalent. It's only when force is being applied between the primary gear and the mating gear that the chirp actually occurs. As I understand the different clutch baskets have different tolerances between the primary gear and it's mating gear. So, it sounds like, the tolerance makes the difference in if and where the chirp occurs.

 

This being said, as you brought up Kit, I've often thought about fashioning a cover of foam or some other sound deadening material to place over the clutch cover to see if it dampens the chirp. Just for testing purposes not that I'd keep something like that on there. Also Wpredock did some tests with his RSTD, removing the windshield and said that the chirp was definitely magnified with the windshield in place. So, I believe, the degree of chirp is a combination of the gear tolerance and the magnification of the sound by the faring or windshield.

 

Just my

[Neil86]

Kit...

Perhaps your mechanic friend didn't realize it....but the clutch basket not only contains the clutch discs but the smaller gear on the backside drives the oil pump. If you were running the engine with the basket totally removed...the oil pump wasn't operating.

[Guest KitCarson]

Kit...

Perhaps your mechanic friend didn't realize it....but the clutch basket not only contains the clutch discs but the smaller gear on the backside drives the oil pump. If you were running the engine with the basket totally removed...the oil pump wasn't operating.

Did we care......no, not at all we had a problem to determine.....we knew that.......when you first start a motor up there is no oil in the cylinders for a few seconds anyway......we ran it for about 20 seconds.......just enough to determine the whine is actually the transmission.....not the clutch...........we did not see how the new assembly was much different than the old one.........and this was further proven once installed......it did not cure the whine.........only moved it to a lower rpm. Exactly why and how, I am not sure about .........the new basket is heavier......but about the same......and we used a more heavy duty clutch plate.........just a tad harder to pull in, we were very aware that many a clutch assembly has been replaced and no real solution ever realized......now we know why. Has been mis-diagnosed. or maybe the dealers know this.........without, retooling the production machines.....and using closer tolerance in the transmission, and or helical gears, or a high polish.......this whine may never be cured. Did you read where I stated we did not romp on it..........we knew we had no oil, did not care......but we were also careful........

 

I have started my boat motors temp for years prior to launching.........Ocassionally someone tells me...........hey you are going to tear up the motor............never has....all we do is see if it will fire, saves the aggravation of launching and whoops...if you ran it for a few minutes...yes you would maybe damage something.........where we were at and what we were trying to do.........it was fine and gave us the answer.

Try your bike at an idle.........you will not hear any whine.......none, not a peep.......now while in neutral......just rev it a tiny bit....increase it to 1500 to 2000 rpm.....it runs about 1000 anyway..........hear the whine start? Now imagine the clutch assembly and basket out.........same whine........no t one little bit of difference. This is what we determined.....yes we are different......we will take a risk to find a problem........and do not worry about highly technical maybe issues.........we ran it for maybe 20 seconds, just enough to determine it was the transmission........not the clutch. I will stand by this to my dying day........it is not the clutch........yamaha has a transmission problem.........and it is know........talk to one of their reps and they will state......all motorcycles inherently have some noise.........and they are right......my suzuki intruder had some....but it was not a high pitched annoying whine like this one had. And at low rpm still does. This particlular bike.......the whine is pretty sharp......it tends to wear you down after a bit. Never fear.......it is more quiet now.......just ordered some louder pipes........this will mask the sound of the whine........I love the sound of the pipes being down shifted or throttled down anyway....stock pipes are a little mild to suit me anyway. Take Care Kit As an addition to all this.........I am on a new course now. Several members have made statements to me that make a whole lot of common sense.........there are two distinct sounds with this engine, transmission assembly..........I have pretty much cure one of them......but it seems even with a new clutch assembly, we still have a bad tolerance situation that magnifies against the housing cover......so we will start a search for a different basket assembly, and or the proper tolerance........that infernal chirp is still there just moved..........and the sound is different when assembled than when not installed.....so we are going to try again. Kit

 

Kit

[Guest KitCarson]

Yeah, what Don said. I've been reading these posts and thinking....."okay, is this the whine or the chirps he's talking about here". With my chirp, I hear it at different stages. in 3rd it's bad from 45 to 50. Goes away completely at 50. In 4th from 55 to 60. Thing is, if I'm tooling along in 4th, at 55, if I back off of the throttle slightly, to maintain speed, or if I back off because I'm going down an incline it goes away completely. Engine RPM only slows slightly, clutch still engaged. If I put the throttle on again, there it is again. To me this suggests that, when the primary drive gear on the basket is actually pushing against the mating gear, the chirp is prevalent. It's only when force is being applied between the primary gear and the mating gear that the chirp actually occurs. As I understand the different clutch baskets have different tolerances between the primary gear and it's mating gear. So, it sounds like, the tolerance makes the difference in if and where the chirp occurs.

 

This being said, as you brought up Kit, I've often thought about fashioning a cover of foam or some other sound deadening material to place over the clutch cover to see if it dampens the chirp. Just for testing purposes not that I'd keep something like that on there. Also Wpredock did some tests with his RSTD, removing the windshield and said that the chirp was definitely magnified with the windshield in place. So, I believe, the degree of chirp is a combination of the gear tolerance and the magnification of the sound by the faring or windshield.

 

Just my

HI Mark. Hey Thanks......your are the first person to describe exactly what was going on, some would tell me .....our sound goes away when we power up. and engage the clutch......nope mine was not like that.......it was exactly as you described, and it drove me crazy, but as you have stated........pull in the clutch and it stopped, with mine that could be at any speed.....pull in the clutch and disengage it and it would stop that infernal chirping. With the new assembly..........I still get a little bit of that.......not like it was.........almost 99 percent of the gear whine is gone, due to the oil useage of a heavier oil..........but still have a different sounding chirp at certain speeds..........so maybe you have something there....certainly makes me sit up and take attention!!! We were very careful to install it correctly.......and I got another lecture not to tighten the final plate bolts too tight.........7 inch pounds I think.......so now we need to know how much tolerance we need between the two.......maybe we need another basket.........just because we put in one........does not mean it is right........getting closer and closer........Thanks. Kit

[Guest KitCarson]

I've been reading all of this excellent information Kit and want to thank you for all the testing that you have done for all of us. When it is all said and done though, I going to borrow a line from Jamie of "Mythbusters" and say "I choose to deny your reality and substitute my own."

 

Seriously, I agree with a whole lot of what you have posted but with one HUGE exception. Since these bikes came out in 1999 and I bought my first one in May of that year, I've seen and listened to literally hundreds of them. There are major differences in the levels and type of sounds. I think that pretty much everything you said is true of the loud and sometimes high pitched "whine" that many folks complain about. My '99 has a bit of that. I've always run Mobil 1 motorcycle specific in my '99 and do not find the while to be objectionable.

 

BUT...the sound that I know to be caused by the clutch basket is entirely different and present at various speeds, rpms and even at idle. I know it when I hear it. I lived in Dallas, TX when Rick Butler bought his first 2nd gen. He came by one day to show it to me and as soon as he pulled into my relatively long driveway, I heard it. When he pulled under my breezeway I still heard it and the first thing Rick asked me was "do you hear that". YES...and it is NOT normal. Also, Rick is one of the most knowledgeable people that I know when it comes to the Venture. He has been riding them since '83 I think and knows them pretty much inside and out. He too knew that this was NOT a normal sound. He did get his pretty much remedied after I think TWO clutch basket swaps. The sound that is caused by a bad clutch basket is not so much of a whine as it is a high pitched chirping sound. The best way that I can describe it is a high pitched warbling sound, almost like a canary. This is the sound that I KNOW can be eliminated or drastically reduced with a clutch basket change.

 

I've said it many times but I still think it is true. There are two different issues with these bikes that folks get intertwined that are totally non-related. High pitched warbling sound caused by the clutch basket and a whine caused by the straight cut gears. The whine from the straight cut gears can be reduced exactly as you have done. The high pitched warbling sound is absolutely not corrected by any brand, weight or type of oil.

 

So there you are. That is my story after also looking at this issue for almost 10 years.

Hi Don.......so sounds like I need to call Cayce and get another basket assembly.......this time maybe we will try an aftermarket or different brand.....not yamaha if this is available. Read the letter Mark wrote to me........he is the first one that describes pretty much exactly what has happened to me. The steady whine thing.....the gears, when I used the heavier oil, it really helped.....in fact at high speeds or at 60 in 4th gear....all the noise is gone........but slow down or try to putter along at 55 on a lazy ride in 5the and that infernal chirp comes back. We got rid of part of it.....but a low rpm it is still there. So a little more work.....it is a great bike other than this........I love it. Thanks for the input........this is just an plumber from Awkaansaras originally:rotf::rotf:determined to solve this thing. Yourself and Mark have really helped, puts my focus in a straight line....stops some of my stumbling around. Learn a little more each day. Take Care Kit Also added this a little later. I was ready to give up, I thought we had done all we could do.....your experience and statements.........that I realize from both yourself and Mark make a lot of sense and based on what I have learned stumbling around....and everything I have learned along with what you have said, really ties it all together, sure does....yes there are two very distinct sounds.....we got one.....now for the other!!.....time to try again........this thing is not over yet!! Thanks!!

[Freebird]

If you find an aftermarket basket that will fit, please let us all know. I've never heard of one. Yamaha has several different baskets that they have tried. What they call the "I" basket is the one that seems to have done the most to correct the problem. From what I have been told, it is ONLY available as a warranty replacement from Yamaha.

[Cougar]

That us exactly what I have been trying to explain

for a year now. (what Kit is saying) He just says it better .

 

After all my basket changes If I run (using a tach) in 4th gear

above 3200 rpm the sound is gone. if I hit 5th Gear the sound

is gone once I have it up over 3200 RPM again.. about 70 to 75.

 

Like Kit I did the thicker oils and the other brands. now I think I have

just plain old 10/40 Yama-Lube in there and as long as those Rpms

are up the sound is GONE!

 

This is one reason I am going with the rear-end change like Don did.

My RPM's will go up with having the drive 75 mph in 5th *lol*

 

Jeff

[clarkrcdc]

why doesn't anyone mention replacing the smaller gear that meshes with the primary basket gear at the time they replace basket? I think they should go on as a set...every bike has a differant ware level...so the chirping sound would be at differant levels...some say the noise went completely away---some said no change at all---some said it was a little better...I have not seen anyone mention this...I'm I missing the picture here??

[Cougar]

I did ask my Mechanic that 1.5 years ago while he was doing

all my basket changes. and he said that it would require tearing

apart the whole engine to replace that small gear as it runs all

the way through the engine on a shaft. about $1200.00 to do

the job..

Jeff

[StarRider07]

sound that is caused by a bad clutch basket is not so much of a whine as it is a high pitched chirping sound. The best way that I can describe it is a high pitched warbling sound, almost like a canary. This is the sound that I KNOW can be eliminated or drastically reduced with a clutch basket change.

 

Hey Freebird. I just bought my 07 RSV Sep 9. For the first couple of weeks I heard the whine. Didn't bother me. I traded in my Roadstar with Hard Krome DD's (very loud) to the RSV stock exhaust so believe me when I thought this was a VERY QUIET BIKE. However for the last 2-3 weeks I am now hearing that chirping sound that I swear was not there before. Is this a defect with the clutch basket. I thought I read somewhere else on this forum that the whine was normal but the chirping meant there was a problem. Is this a warrenty issue?

 

Greg

[Freebird]

In my opinion, the high pitched chirping sound is not really normal. Some are worse than others and depending upon how bad it is will determine if they decide to warranty it.

[Mean Dog]

Where is this resonance coming from......you know with a stethascope, it is loudest at the clutch housing, but is still there with the whole clucth and basket removed, but a higher pitch with everything installed..........hum.....what you think about an insulated clutch cover?.....there is not much room in there......take out the oil fill and there are the friction discs ....See I will keep at it. Kit

 

I bought my MRSV new in May of 06. I did hear a whine in the transmission from day One! I never heard the chirp or George Jetson car noise that everyone complains about. I dumped the oil at 500 miles and put in Shell Rotella Synthetic at that time. It did help the wine but, it is still there and I have gotten used to it. All my Harleys made noise too but the pipes covered most of it. When I had my Ultra with the fairing and lowers the cam chain noise was really bad and resonated off of them back to the rider. I now have 14,000 miles on my MRSV and it sounds the same. I have followed the posts on the I-basket change but, never felt as though this was the real problem, in my case anyway. Pulling in the clutch while riding takes pressure off the gears in the transmission and the whine does quiet down to a degree. Thanks for all your research Kit!

 

One more thing! I used to drive a 61 Vette with a 327 cu. in. with a 671 Blower with 2/4 bbls. so I know what whine means!..........HORSE POWER!

 

 

 

Dog