Coolant Smell

[Dakota]

I have just finished rebuilding the clutch slave cylinder, new O ring, pin and compression spring on the nautral safety switch, all new exhaust gaskets and silencers., but still getting this coolant smell. Looks like the light smoke is coming from the exhaust chamber and rising up. There isn't any oil in the coolant and no coolant in the oil. While I had the exhause off, I did a good cleaning of the bottom of the engine and all parts I had off. I did all of the fore mentioned to find this burning coolant smell problem. What lead me to tearing the exhaust off is I thought I had a coolant leak, but never any puddles. Before doing all this along with the burning coolant smell, there was also water coming out of the exhaust mufflers,(still is). This is a 1989 XVZ1300 I bought about a year and a half ago and only ridden maybe 7 or 8 miles,(been trying to get things done to get a sidecar on it). I noticed it at first and the previous owner had told me he had just spilt some coolant when filling it, I think he knew better and that's why he sold it. But my problem now and need to get it taken care of so I can finish it. Any help would be great.

[Black Owl]

Have you run a pressure test?

[Blue Giant]

It's not puddling in the lower fairing chin is it?

[Dakota]

Pressure test? You mean Compression test? That's my next move, but have to wait now till Tuesday when I can bring home my tools from school.

No puddling anywhere. All the fairing is off. It's coming off the exhaust chamber, so I'm guessing it's getting into the exhaust side somewhere.

[Black Owl]

No. Run a pressure test on the water jacket to see if you are loosing pressure. That will tell you if you have a coolant leak.

[Dakota]

Hmmmm, where's the water jacket at? I'm stumped on that.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Dennis,

I will try to shed some light on what the wise old Owl is referring to. You can check at Harbor Freight, or NAPA, or Advance Auto Parts, and the tool you are looking for is a Radiator Pressure Gage. You will attach it where the Radiator cap goes and pump it up.

About 8 PSI outta' do it. Then let it set. If it leaks down, then you have a coolant leak.

A spot on these engines that can cause the trouble that you describe is called the "Twinkie" (see pic below) It is a bear to get to, but once done, should take care of your problem. If it is a head gasket, then thats a whole different matter. (I have seen only 2 blown head gaskets on a First Gen. VR in my life!) First things first, Try the leak down test on the radiator. The only other thing I want to mention here is IF YOU HAVE OVERFILLED THE REAR BRAKE MASTER CYLINDER, it will weep out of the reservoir lid and spill down on the exhaust collector and smell "sweet" like antifreeze. (because it is a glycol alcohol based fluid just like antifreeze) As the engine warms up, the brake fluid expands and weeps out of the rear reservoir, onto the collector, and causes the smell. Check the level, if it is right up to the threads on the fill bolt, then remove a bit, (1 oz.) and see if that stops the smell. If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me.

Earl

[Dakota]

Earl, thanks for the info! The "Twinkie", now that's funny! I was thinking maybe of the "Joints" as Yamaha list them, with the 3 O-rings. The ones located behind each spark plug. But this is my first water cooled engine and we haven't hit on these in class yet, so while I know what I'm doing, I do get a little lost........... I'll run down to Harbor Frieght in the morning and pick one of those up and do the test and see what happens. I will also look at the rear master cylinder fuild level first, because I did flush out the old fuild. But when I bought this, the smell was there than.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Dennis,

There is no such thing as a "dumb question"! Only the question that is unasked! This tool will be helpful other times. And since you have a watercooled bike you need to be able to check out the coolant system. I have been working on these bikes half my life and I still get confused. Keep asking questions, and we will fiqure out what's going on.

Earl

[Monty]

Just remember, Skydoc said 8 PSI.

 

If you pump it up too high, you can cause it to leak, so don't overdo it.

[Marcarl]

The other place to check is the little hose at the bottom center of the rad. It can weep just a bit and not leak on the floor. Hard to discover, not a hard fix.

Carl

[Condor]

Another thing that no one has addressed yet, is the moisture dripping out of the exhaust is normal when first fired up. After the engine is up to running temp it will disappear, however you should be able to hold your hand in the exhaust flow and 'feel' the moisture as it hits your hand. It indicates a well tuned engine. Good luck finding the 'twinkle'... There is a water jacket plug back behind each the spark plugs that will 'twinkle' when the 'O' rings get stiff and hard with age. Keep an eye on that area while doing the pressure test.

[Dakota]

I'll be running the Pressure test as soon as HF opens, if they have a tester in stock, and will check all the other areas mentioned. I do have a complete 87 1300 donor, if the head is crack and if that is the case, then I will probably do a complete rebuild of the 87, they are inter-changeable, aren't they?

[Condor]

they are inter-changeable, aren't they?

 

Yep.....

[Dakota]

Well there's some good news! If I end up doing that, the rebuild, I seem to have read somewhere out here to use VMax heads or cams or something from them? Is there advantage to doing that?

[Condor]

Well there's some good news! If I end up doing that, the rebuild, I seem to have read somewhere out here to use VMax heads or cams or something from them? Is there advantage to doing that?

 

Where's Squeeze....

[skydoc_17]

Hey Dennis,

I personally would just swap the 87'VR engine for the 89'VR motor if in fact you have a bad head gasket, or some other major engine damage. 98 HP is pretty respectable power for a bike this old. The cost of the parts to do a complete rebuild vrs. the extra power/reliability you would get is marginal at best. Now, if your "need for speed" is high enough, then the addition of a set of VMAX heads would be an excellent project. Both intake and exhaust valves are larger, the "high profile" cams open the valves wider and for a longer amount of time allowing more fuel/air mixture into the engine, which equals more HP! I would first take the time to find out where your problem is on your current engine, because if it is a hose, or the radiator,or the thermostat housing then changing out the motor is NOT going to solve ANY of these problems. Patience grasshopper, patience! Besides, you could be RIDING your bike with the 89'VR motor in it while you add the heads to the 87'VR motor, then do the swap in the winter time. A lot of Harley guys have a bike in their garage all torn apart, that doesn't make them BIKERS! Just a thought

Earl

[Dakota]

OK $80. for the pressure tester, got it hooked up using #16 cap, set at 8psi and am waiting. Hmmmm, how long? And what's it gonna tell me besides that I might have a leak? Should I be watching for something to come squirting out at me? Or if it's what I expect, the Water Jacket Joint O-rings, how will I tell that or if is a blowen head gasket? Ahh, so many questions.......

Edited February 14, 2010 by Dakota

[Dakota]

3 and a half hrs and still holding! The needle may have moved a hair?

[Black Owl]

After 3.5 hours and still holding the same pressure, I think it would be safe to say that you do not have a coolant leak.

 

We normally run the test for 30 minutes.

[Dakota]

Can't understand why I'm getting this coolant smell and the light smoke coming up from the exhaust chamber. Even after having the chamber off and cleaning it real good, along with the bottom of the engine. But you can see the dim light smoke if you shine a flash light just right and the smell of the smoke is like if your heater core goes out in a car.

[skydoc_17]

Hey Dennis,

I am almost positive, (Keep in mind that I have NEVER seen your bike, much less worked on it) that you have brake fluid either from the brake master cylinder or the clutch slave that has dripped on the exhaust collector, and this is what you smell. You would see a "puff" of white smoke on the right side, behind your right calf for the rear master, and the same puff of white smoke on the left side, low, by your left heel for the clutch slave. Can you give us some more details on the location of the smoky area? One other thing, If you "crack" the oil drain plug, (meaning to let a little oil out) if there is a head gasket problem, you should see "milky white streaks in the engine oil. (meaning that oil and water has mixed) By turning the Radiator drain plug,(behind the lower cowl) and taking a sample of the coolant, you would look for oil in the coolant. One other thing you might try is to squirt some cleaner like simple green (Keep it off of the painted parts!) or fantastic spray cleaner and washing the exhaust collector, the clutch slave and the rear master cylinder areas with your garden hose. (now don't get crazy with the water!) Stay away from the dash, the TCI box, the coils, etc. And if you use a pressure washer... well, lets just say you better be a surgeon with that puppy!

Earl

[Dakota]

Going out to check everything all over again. SpeedO states a little over 15,000 on it. I just did a rebuild of the clutch slave cuz I pondered that thought. The dim light smoke I'm seeing is coming from by the middle drive case cover, but I know the slave isn't leaking, for 3 days after I finished it, I would go out and pump the hell out of the clutch and then check it in the morning with a paper towel, nothing! So I pumped the hell out of it again and go to school, when I got home I checked with a paper towel, nothing. I did this for 3 days, cus I didn't want to pull it all apart again. When I had the exhaust all off, I cleaned everything with electrical spray cleaner, and then wiped down with paper towels,(chamber looks almost new). I'm scraching my head so much, the ole lady says I better stop, I ain't got that much hair left!

Edited February 15, 2010 by Dakota
I forget sometimes

[Dakota]

OK, first checked the fluid level in the rear master cylinder and drained a little out, went over all the hoses and connections with the engine running and no leaks. Fan doesn't kick on till right before the gauge hits the red zone, but stays on till it comes down a little.(seen the fan switch mod, might do it if need be). I'll check the oil and coolant again in the morning,(no school tomorrow), to see if either is mixing. Engine sounds like it's running good though. I shut off the garage lights and used a LED flash light and seen the dim smoke on both sides of the bike coming up from the bottom. I removed the chrome plates on all 4 heads and watched for leaks there also. Doesn't look like I'm loosing any coolant out of the overflow, but I can still smell it. I cleaned the rear of the engine underside of the rear exhaust header pipes and watch for leaks there also. There's got to be a gremblin hiding with a squirt gun full of coolant and the little terd is going to the other side of the bike that I'm on and shooting it on the chamber.

[Dakota]

Since we've been having all this nice sunshine over here on the west coast,(east coasters, we had what you getting last year), I haven't touched the VR all week. Except for yesterday to put it in the trailer. I talked with my instructor on Fri.. and told him I need more eyes on it, maybe that way someone will see something I'm not. So it will be going to school with me tomorrow. Oops, I don't think I mentioned in any of my past post, that I'm in my 3rd quarter at Lake Washington Technical College for the MMPE program,(Motorcycle, Marine, Power Equipment) more on the Motorcycle aspect since after next quarter, I'll be starting my AAS for HD . So I often take things in that I need to work on; my softail for progressive rear shocks, the VStar to run electrical test, forks, master cylinder off the VR to be rebuilt. I'll keep everyone updated with what we find, I'd hate to see someone go though this again.

Oh yea, did I mention we have a 2000 Vmax sitting in the lab that someone donated? I may buy the heads, carbs and what ever else I need from the school! So if anyone out there has done the VMax mod, please chime in and let me know what it's gonna take to do it.