Gear box Noise results-Shhhhhhhhhh!!

[Guest KitCarson]

Okay, I just violated all the safety rules and went for a spin without my helmet, I have been playing with the transmission noise on my new 2007 Venture for some time now and my results are quite good. There is still a small whine, will explain what that is in a minute, but the gear box noise is gone.........bye.......non existent, and that high ear grinding noise at interstate speeds......hey I can hear the pipes now!!

 

First let me tell all of you I am not any kind of expert,and in no way know it all, what I have done I will not recommend to any of you, this is simply what I have done, I really do not think it will harm the engine, if it does, I will go get a new one!! I am just telling you what I have done and it is based on some good research, not opinions, nope, everyone has one of those, sometimes I have two or three:sign20:.

 

I have based on the formula of 4 quarts of oil, 128 ounces total, and the fact that Yamaha tells us to use 3.91 quarts with a filter change, I have dropped the .01 as that makes my brain hurt, and used simply 3.90. We used to run the road racers 3 ounces low on purpose. If some math expert figures out I am .0001 off over or under, sorry, I am a common sense person, hey might be .001 more or less in a different brand filter, do not worry about such minor things!!

 

So I have used 3 quarts of Castrol 20W50 Syntec Blend

17 ounces of Castrol standard 50 weight

12.5 ounces of Lucas Oil additive.

For a total of 125.5 ounces of total volume in the unit.

 

I used the main oil base of a Synthetic blend as I did not want a full Synthetic, a full Synthetic I am told by those I have pestered to death in the oil industry at high temps, is designed to flow into the small spaces in any engine and lubricate them, it goes to its lowest viscosity when it gets hot........it also coats on the parts better than regular oils.......a balance of the two is to use a blend.

I added the standard 50 weight to try to beef up the base oil some, I had already found out I had to be careful using too heavy an oil, and the Lucas oil additive causes all this to cling to the transmission gears and as far as I can tell it is doing well. I have not took it out on a long jaunt, got it hot yet, going to do that this Saturday.

 

Again do not do this until I put a few miles on it, this is something I have done, like I have told you, I am no expert, I am just someone who looks at things when they get so technical no one can understand them, and so much discussion surrounds simple things, I tend to throw all that stuff in the round file and use common sense.

 

Now after all this and my test ride just a bit ago. I do still have a high pitched whine , not a gear whine, but something else. I listened to that at idle, took it around the block again, hit the interstate for a bit and it was gone, I could even listen to the pipes on the interstate, slow down and could hear a whine, idle it and rev it a bit , hear the whine........got one of my wifes stethascopes (how do you spell that anyway? ) it is the thing the doctor listens to your ticker with, I use one to find water leaks under a concrete slab with sometimes. Fellows this residual whine is the pistons moving up and down in the block, you can actually hear it increase and decrease as you vary the motor speed at idle.

 

Will let you know after tomorrow.......but the heavier oil , and Lucas additive, has taken 90 percent of it away. The residual whine is the motor working......I personally kinda like it.....sounds like power to me!! Gave my fancy mustang to my youngest son for this past Christmas, it had that power whine, tis a pretty one to. Bright Yellow, this is to me what the remaining noise is.

 

Take Care, all things have variables, this has worked for me, I think it will for others also, just let me put a few miles on it.....I also live in the south, what I have done may not be good for a motor where it gets cold, be very aware of that fact. Kit

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take Care Kit

[FreezyRider]

Hey, Kit.... read this article and let me know what you think.

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

[BEER30]

Hey Kit !

Did you think of all this while staying once at a Holiday Inn ? :rotf:

 

Good new for ya , but I'm not whining , nor chirping enough to bother me . There such a thing call a volume control knob on my radio when it does . But I will keep this in mind if I break my knob off .

 

 

BEER30

[Sleeperhawk]

Hey, Kit.... read this article and let me know what you think.

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

 

Okay, I read it, but I will admit very fast, so what is the bottom line, to use or not use Lucas Motor oil additive?

[Gary N.]

Let us know if it starts dripping oil from being over filled. Most have found that anything over 1/2 way between the two marks on the sight glass causes oil to get sucked into the breather and then out to the floor.

Also, is that Lucas additive compatible with a wet clutch?

[royalstarjac]

One way to get rid of the whine is to get rid of the Brickstone tire on the rear. I just changed to a Dunlop after 6k mi and the difference is unreal!-Jack

[hig4s]

One way to get rid of the whine is to get rid of the Brickstone tire on the rear. I just changed to a Dunlop after 6k mi and the difference is unreal!-Jack

 

Not to mention that the Bridgestone front tire whines if not going in a perfectly straight line.

[FreezyRider]

Okay, I read it, but I will admit very fast, so what is the bottom line, to use or not use Lucas Motor oil additive?

 

 

Well, he's saying to NOT use it since it will foam up and cause air bubbles to be where you want the oil to be.

[Tartan Terror]

Expect a slipping clutch in short order. If I read right you used 20w50 Synec CAR OIL? These bikes use a wet clutch and that means that the friction modifiers in a non MC Specific oil will get in your clutch plates and cause slipping. Once this happens you will need new friction discs. Good Luck.

[Guest KitCarson]

Hey, Kit.... read this article and let me know what you think.

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

Hi Freezy.

 

As I said, everyone has an opinion! You have to read carefully, no matter how hard you work, someone wants to throw wrenches into the game and misrepresent things. If you look at this article, they are using very, very heavy oil, oil that will whip to a foam if ran at a high rpm. I think they were using like 80w140, 90 weight and stuff like this, by adding more resistance to the oil that is already heavy , the rpm naturally fills it with air. Air bubbles in the oils would destroy a motor in short order, would not take it long at all.

You have to read things carefully for its particular application. A lot of people intend to be helpful, but really are just blowing hot air.

In our case with these 4 cylinder motors, we are dealing even with 20w50 basically a light oil, it flows well and functions well with Lucas products. They will specifically tell you to be careful with heavy oils, depends on the rpm. A slow moving gear box like on some kind of machinery, you can fill it full with just lucas if you want, as the rpm goes up, you have to be careful. I called them several times, did not just rely on one person opinion. I was told in motorcycles with a wet clutch to use only 10 percent max. It would be a great help at that ratio, any more and performance would degrade, and clutch slippage would or could occur. This is specifically spelled out on the bottle. It says hey dummies, use 10 percent in motorcycles with a wet clutch only. It says other things too and where people get confused is it says up to 25 percent or more with Harley or S and S type motors. Some harleys run a dry clutch.......does not work well, conversions are made all the time to a wet clutch......some have separate gear box. I have built several from the frame up.......with separate gear boxes and a big 3 inch wide drive belt.

Another thing to consider is the fact that transmission gearing, drive gears and similar gears do not turn at a high RPM. I am not an expert on that either, just know I have observed open gearboxes on bikes while the motor is running, By not at a high RPM, say if the motor is doing 5000 RPM. the main drive gear may do 1700? The secondary gears may do 400RPM. Lucas oil additive has been used for years in all kinds of motors and gear boxes. If it did what this fellow shows in the photos, it would no longer exist as a company due to paying off lawsuits. This information in my opinion is totally bogus(and everyone has an opinion) Shown is a small sewing machine electric motor, or similar type motor, those types little motors run around 10000 rpm, some even faster, with the small gearing in the little boxes it is still zipping around at a pretty high rpm. Fast enough it will prevent oil to stick to the gears.........and how much did this fellow add? What are all the facts? He says something about slow start up gears on a tractor box, Hey I have a tractor, and a backhoe, the gears turn so slow in the gearbox , just a small amount of oil would suffice. I have seen older farm equipment with water in the gearbox, oil has not been changed for 10 years, the gears move so slow, wear is not a real issue...........I am open minded........but like to use common sense too, this fellow is spinning the gears fast enough to make whipped cream out of the oil........I do not believe, I am not convinced. Kit

 

Whoa! See the misspelled words....see how if you make things too technical one starts to work to try to explain things. I am sorry for stretching this out and allowing myself to be pulled into a discussion about some snake oil salesman with his own agenda, who will just confuse the issue. Enough Said. Hey Fellows did you know you can Boil water with a Boat Propeller ? In the water , on the boat it is called cavitation, if I put it in a little tank, filled the tank with water and ran it at about 6000 RPM, it would boil water.

There is always an extreme, one way or the other, with anything. I myself do not have the intelligence to disprove this man, really do not have any desire to, I am just sorry I let myself even get pulled into making this a consideration. Take Care Kit

 

[Guest KitCarson]

Hey Kit !

Did you think of all this while staying once at a Holiday Inn ? :rotf:

 

Good new for ya , but I'm not whining , nor chirping enough to bother me . There such a thing call a volume control knob on my radio when it does . But I will keep this in mind if I break my knob off .

 

 

BEER30

No it was not the Holiday Inn, actually I believe it was the Motel Six . Hey you going to be at the meet and eat in South Carolina on the 27th? Maybe you can take mine for a spin around the block and compare it to yours........look forward to meeting you. Take Care

[Guest KitCarson]

Expect a slipping clutch in short order. If I read right you used 20w50 Synec CAR OIL? These bikes use a wet clutch and that means that the friction modifiers in a non MC Specific oil will get in your clutch plates and cause slipping. Once this happens you will need new friction discs. Good Luck.

Could have messed up.........hope I did not, would not be the first time:rotf::rotf:. I always though oil was oil, mechanical was mechanical, if it says MC on it and sold at the dealer, just costs three times a much, have used Mobile One and Castrol motor oil in bikes for years. I actually like Mobile one better, has a better looking bottle..........honestly do not think a motor knows if it is in a car or a bike, none of them have actually told me this......not sure.........I have several old chainsaws we use to cut roots with, or a tree down to replace a sewer line, they smoke a lot, I used chain oil in the gas last time.....may be that is why?

 

Do not mind me.......I like to mess around sometimes. Kit

[Guest KitCarson]

One way to get rid of the whine is to get rid of the Brickstone tire on the rear. I just changed to a Dunlop after 6k mi and the difference is unreal!-Jack

The tires that came with my new venture say Dunlop on them. I know tire whine or shimmey.........I am very , very particular with tires.........new ones every year.........has only 4000 miles on them.......so.........I like new tires.......no blown sidewalls for me...nope, I watch those tires like a hawk. Kit

[hig4s]

Could have messed up.........hope I did not, would not be the first time:rotf::rotf:. I always though oil was oil, mechanical was mechanical, if it says MC on it and sold at the dealer, just costs three times a much, have used Mobile One and Castrol motor oil in bikes for years. I actually like Mobile one better, has a better looking bottle..........honestly do not think a motor knows if it is in a car or a bike, none of them have actually told me this......not sure.........I have several old chainsaws we use to cut roots with, or a tree down to replace a sewer line, they smoke a lot, I used chain oil in the gas last time.....may be that is why?

 

Do not mind me.......I like to mess around sometimes. Kit

 

Check the API circle on the back of the auto oil, if it says "Energy Conserving" it has extra additives that may not be good for a wet clutch.. I ruined one on my old Yamaha because I didn't know at the time. Since I have used Mobil 1 auto oil on many of my bikes with no problems, I just make sure it does not say Energy Conserving on the back.

[Squeeze]

Expect a slipping clutch in short order. If I read right you used 20w50 Synec CAR OIL? These bikes use a wet clutch and that means that the friction modifiers in a non MC Specific oil will get in your clutch plates and cause slipping. Once this happens you will need new friction discs. Good Luck.

 

I think this Syntec Blend is a non synthetic Oil, made for elder Motors, and it might work

[Guest KitCarson]

Let us know if it starts dripping oil from being over filled. Most have found that anything over 1/2 way between the two marks on the sight glass causes oil to get sucked into the breather and then out to the floor.

 

Also, is that Lucas additive compatible with a wet clutch?

Looks like I really started something huh? I am used to it, my wife says I am full of sh.........! Actually Gary, the bike is not overfilled. Yamaha recommends 3.91 quarts of oil, when you change the filter also. I always change the filter, so at 32 ounces per quart, that is 128 ounces. I threw the .01 out........was causing my excellent math skills to deteriorate.

I have three quarts of oil at 32 ounces each in there........12.5 ounces of Lucas, and 17 ounces of standard 50 weight. This is a total of 125.5 ounces of volume in the engine and lower unit. Does a small amount of 50 weight help or harm? Really not sure, was based on facts of using a blend and not a full synthetic, and just minimally boosting the high end of the viscosity level. There are a lot of opinions on that one too.......what is true, what is not......I really do not have a sure answer for that one. I do know once a motor is warmed up to operating speed, and as it gets to full temp on longer trips, all this is not a concern as when oil gets hot it tends to thin out towards the lower viscosity scale. Therefore the 20w40 which is an alternate oil recommended in the yamaha manual, might do just as well. Whether you have 20w40 or 20w50 once the motor is warmed up , most likely is pretty much the same. Where you live, where it is extremely cold a lot of times........thinner is better, I live in the south, it is a rare day it gets real cold around here......once in awhile we get a bad couple weeks. None of us ride then anyway, we just get cabin fever and wish for spring!

 

Lucas oil additive......yes it is a good product. Yes you can use it in your motorcycle. Use it in only 10 percent ratio to the total volume, no more, you will get 10 different opinions, so do not listen to anyone, including myself. Go pick a bottle up in the store, read it, they have a toll free number and will be happy to talk to you.

Thing is time and tested products, made by good companies, used as directed are generally good. They do test these things, spend time with them, put a lot of research into things........do wonder about yamaha sometimes :rotf:skyscraper windshields, misprinted manuals, gear whine........

 

Once this is over,,,,,,,,and I have listened to all of you, and got a couple thousand miles on this deal, I myself will know a little more. So far have seen no soap bubbles foaming in the sight glass.........there is these little pieces of metal bouncing around though.........what do you suppose those are? :stirthepot: Kit

[Guest KitCarson]

Check the API circle on the back of the auto oil, if it says "Energy Conserving" it has extra additives that may not be good for a wet clutch.. I ruined one on my old Yamaha because I didn't know at the time. Since I have used Mobil 1 auto oil on many of my bikes with no problems, I just make sure it does not say Energy Conserving on the back.

Well I am all for conserving energy, that is what I am doing right now, feet up on the table, talking to all of you, cold drink, yes I like to conserve energy. :sign20:

[Eugene]

.......there is these little pieces of metal bouncing around though.........what do you suppose those are? :stirthepot: Kit

 

Sheesh - and here I thought you had a 2nd Gen - the bouncing metals are usually pieces of 1st Gens falling off!!!!

 

Eugene

[Guest KitCarson]

Sheesh - and here I thought you had a 2nd Gen - the bouncing metals are usually pieces of 1st Gens falling off!!!!

 

Eugene

Yes some of those little chunks rolling around in the sight glass are angled forward, they seem to be front heavy. I have in the past noticed the saddlebags on the 1st Gens are angled forward a bit. I always figured that was so you could stack rocks in there and give yourself a little more weight forward. This is so they can catch a 2nd Gen!!:stirthepot:

[pegscraper]

Unless I'm way off, there aren't any 20W50 oils that will be "energy conserving". To my knowledge, nothing any thicker than 10W30 is.

[Bones158]

Seems like a good idea. My first thought after reading your first post was the wet clutch but you explaned it after the second one (10% Lucus). Keep us updated on the long time out look, you may have something here. If it works, bottle and sell your blend.

[Guest KitCarson]

Seems like a good idea. My first thought after reading your first post was the wet clutch but you explaned it after the second one (10% Lucus). Keep us updated on the long time out look, you may have something here. If it works, bottle and sell your blend.

Well the oil was a good idea, and it does work, I was told today though by the best mechanic I have ever known, to not be putting any amount of standard 50 weight in the motor. The oil a standard mix of 20w50 with 10 percent Lucas will show you an improvement, how much it really is, I am guessing on mine about 10 percent, maybe a little more, combined with what we did to it today, it just about cures the situation at any speed above 60mph, low end, low rpm, I suppose there is no real answer, posted a new post on what we did today.

 

Kit