replacing heat pump system in house

[waterbug]

My parents are getting ready to replace there 25yr old bryant heat pump system with something more efficiant since they are getting 500 plus elec bills and cant get gas were they are. I know there are some real good systems out there and some bad ones who recomnds what and why?? Im trying to help them out with all the info I can. I did do some hvac for a awhile so I do know some but not who has the best and why. Thanks

[frogmaster]

Lp = Liquid Propane and Forced Air 90% efficiency. Pas Heat Pump studies says to far North or South then not efficient and the best zone for Heat Pump was TN & KY Latitude-ish.

[camos]

I was recently researching heat pumps and found most name brands had an equal blend of postitive and negative comments/experiences which basically didn't help much. People who had x brand for years and were very happy with it bought the same brand but newer/more efficient and often larger capacity as a replacement had problems. The best I was able to determine was the size of a replacement heat pump needed to match the capacity of the installed ducting or the system would end up cycling too much and wear itself out. Much also depends on how well insulated and sealed the house is. The best advice I could give you would be to talk to reputable installers in your area about a properly sized system for the house.

 

For what it's worth, I ended up getting an Amana but it's too soon to tell if that was a good choice.

[cecdoo]

I have had a York heat pump for 19 yrs. All I can say is DONT buy a York!!! You want the outdoor unit as close to the indoor unit as possible, you want the main as close to center of house as possible, and you want short straight runs, preferably insulated metal. House needs to be as tight as possible, and dont buy a York!! Craig

[uncledj]

Heat pumps and AC condensing units are all pretty much the same. The bigger names may have a few more bells and whistles, which can end up causing more trouble than they're worth......more gadgets=more stuff to break. Living in Indiana, you're getting far enough North that it'd be questionable whether a heat pump is the best idea or not. If you do go with another HP, you should consider having a thermostat set up on it to keep it from running below ? 25 ? degrees or so, at which point you'd use only the auxiliary heat. When you go much below that, you'll start to lose the benefit of the HP, as it'll have a harder time pulling heat out of the colder air.

I live in Central OH, on a rural property, where the house was all electric. I did a lot of work to the place before I moved in, and one of the things I did was to go with a propane furnace, and I couldn't be happier. It'll be a bit of an expense to have the propane run, but I think it'll be well worth it in the long run.

I'd suggest a higher efficiency furnace, anything above 90% is good,....don't try to split hairs getting the absolute highest efficiency, 'cause you'll pay more and more for a smaller and smaller gain. Also, with furnaces, as well as heat pumps,....don't let the big names impress you. I've installed quite a few Payne (mfg'd by Carrier) and Goodman (I think they're made by Ruud), and have had very good luck with them.

If you're really trying to save energy $, get a programmable thermostat, and set it to drop the temp as much as you can comfortably stand at night, and to set the AC up a few degrees during the day, if there's times when no one's home.

Also: Very Important !....don't let them oversize the equipment. For greatest efficiency, best heating/cooling capability and equipment longevity, it's important to have a correctly sized, and maybe a little undersized system.

 

Wow....that was quite a rant.....

I've been doin' the HVAC gig for over 23 years now, although I haven't done much residential work for a while, other than moonlighting jobs.

 

I hope this was helpful....if you have any questions, (if anyone has any questions). feel free to e-mail me at uncledjm14@yahoo.com.

 

Best of luck.

John

[frogmaster]

Heat pumps and AC condensing units are all pretty much the same. The bigger names may have a few more bells and whistles, which can end up causing more trouble than they're worth......more gadgets=more stuff to break. Living in Indiana, you're getting far enough North that it'd be questionable whether a heat pump is the best idea or not. If you do go with another HP, you should consider having a thermostat set up on it to keep it from running below ? 25 ? degrees or so, at which point you'd use only the auxiliary heat. When you go much below that, you'll start to lose the benefit of the HP, as it'll have a harder time pulling heat out of the colder air.

I live in Central OH, on a rural property, where the house was all electric. I did a lot of work to the place before I moved in, and one of the things I did was to go with a propane furnace, and I couldn't be happier. It'll be a bit of an expense to have the propane run, but I think it'll be well worth it in the long run.

I'd suggest a higher efficiency furnace, anything above 90% is good,....don't try to split hairs getting the absolute highest efficiency, 'cause you'll pay more and more for a smaller and smaller gain. Also, with furnaces, as well as heat pumps,....don't let the big names impress you. I've installed quite a few Payne (mfg'd by Carrier) and Goodman (I think they're made by Ruud), and have had very good luck with them.

If you're really trying to save energy $, get a programmable thermostat, and set it to drop the temp as much as you can comfortably stand at night, and to set the AC up a few degrees during the day, if there's times when no one's home.

Also: Very Important !....don't let them oversize the equipment. For greatest efficiency, best heating/cooling capability and equipment longevity, it's important to have a correctly sized, and maybe a little undersized system.

 

Wow....that was quite a rant.....

I've been doin' the HVAC gig for over 23 years now, although I haven't done much residential work for a while, other than moonlighting jobs.

 

I hope this was helpful....if you have any questions, (if anyone has any questions). feel free to e-mail me at uncledjm14@yahoo.com.

 

Best of luck.

John

 

AGREE 100% with John... and seen these manufacturer names at Consumer Reports too and Best Value was 90 to 92%. LP Liquid Propane company's usually will have a New Customer SETUP SPECIAL like Free 500 Gallon Tank delivery and set and you pay per foot of copper tubing buried between Tank and Home and then Black Pipe from outer wall to furnace. Do not look for Lp running down the street if you are "rural", like Natural Gas might be in some suburbs.

[CMIKE]

You are pretty far north for a Air cooled condenser to work efficently year round...in my opinion UNLESS you use a ground loop or Geothermal for the outside condenser.

Lots of times the cost to dig up your yard seems extreme but in climates there you have a lot of days below 32F it will pay out in the long run. Those $500 light bills are due to the emergency heat (Heat Strips) coming on since there is not enough heat in the outside air to bring inside and heat the house.

Keep in mind how a heat pump works. It is only an air conditioner with a reversing valve...that allows the system to remove heat from inside the house in the summer and dump it outside. In winter it reverses and gathers heat from outside and dumps it inside to heat the house. If it is below 32F outside...little or no heat to bring inside. Using Geothermal with your condenser in the ground below the freeze line allows you to grab heat from the ground and bring it inside. The ground below the freeze line stays pretty stable year round.

Search the web for heat pump ground loop or Geothermal for more information.

 

Also another tip with any system you choose. Go with the highest SEER value you can afford. Engineer your system...most installers look at the house and really guess what size unit to install along with the duct work. Any installer can grab a unit and make it work...but is it gonna be the best suited for your home. Do not go with the cheapest installer. You should consider...ceciling height, insulation type and quanity...square inches of windows and what kind of windows you have...also consider north facing walls and how many windows and how many inches of glass are on these walls. Engineering the duct work also gets a good balance of air flow inside the house. This prevents cool or hot spots and better function of the thermostat to maintain comfort inside the home. I engineered my installation...we do not live as far north as you but my electric bill averages about $150 on an all electric home 2350 square foot with 9 and 10 foot celings with lots of Low E glass windows and cellulose insulation. WE too did have a spike in the electric bill during the recent 8 degree nights/15 degree days that lasted about 2 weeks and it jumped up to $300. Neighbors are having to take out a loan to pay theirs.

I ran mine through 2 different HVAC engineering software...and it calculated size of duct all the way to the air registers with size of unit down to the size of the lines to connect the inside to the outside. It took a lot to get all the information in...but it was worth it.

Good luck finding somebody to really work with you to get it right.

[Dano]

Right now LP is pretty cheap, I'm on budget with 1.69 p/gallon on budget year round, 55 bucks a month for total of 660 a year. 2 yr old goodman setup in and out. Don't like the single R/A he put in my floor, I HAD R/A in each room up by ceiling (9' high) before and it was very comfortable. Might have to redo it myself (I listened to my wife and let someone else do it!).

 

Besides that, I like putting my cold feet over the register with propane than the cold air you get with a heat pump.

[Gary N.]

Another vote here for geothermal. Expensive initial investment but relatively quick payback and very efficient. It's got to get real cold and windy before I see the heat strips come on.

[Freebird]

I'm not convinced that Geo Thermal is always the best option. Last year, I got a quote to have it installed. It came to about $13,000.00. I have to think that the dealer was pretty honest because he basically talked me out of doing it. I already have a high efficiency furnace. It's a heat pump system with propane backup and in the high 90s for efficiency. He told me that based upon the efficiency of my existing furnace, the payback for the Geo Thermal system would be about 13 years. He said that the true life expectancy of the Geo Thermal system is about 15 years. So...it would be 13 years before I reached the break even point and then possibly only 2 years of the continued small savings before I had to spend big bucks again.

[raceman62race]

I have a geothermal system and I love it. Down in the south, we have a harder time cooling vs heating. I was able to install it myself and I am heating/cooling 2700 sq ft. I have a total electric house and my bill rarely goes over $200.00. We have had some really cold days (for the south) and it did go slightly over $300.00. I would not be a fan of them if I couldn't install it myself. ....like Freebird said, by the time you pay to get it installed, your really not going to save much money. In 2006 our house burned completely up and we had to rebuild. I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a backhoe to dig a new foundation and do a little landscaping with. I also used it to install the ground loops. My plan was to sell it after all the work was done. I've never had the heat strips come on because I keep the breaker turned off to them.....it's efficiency is like it is 59 degs year round

[frogmaster]

I have a geothermal system and I love it. Down in the south, we have a harder time cooling vs heating. I was able to install it myself and I am heating/cooling 2700 sq ft. I have a total electric house and my bill rarely goes over $200.00. We have had some really cold days (for the south) and it did go slightly over $300.00. I would not be a fan of them if I couldn't install it myself. ....like Freebird said, by the time you pay to get it installed, your really not going to save much money. In 2006 our house burned completely up and we had to rebuild. I was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a backhoe to dig a new foundation and do a little landscaping with. I also used it to install the ground loops. My plan was to sell it after all the work was done. I've never had the heat strips come on because I keep the breaker turned off to them.....it's efficiency is like it is 59 degs year round

 

 

Interesting numbers... N.W. Michigan just got above ZERO F today... Anyways 5 Year Avg for my 3,200 SqFt Equals = AVG $100.00 for Lp and AVG $65.00 Electric, Per Month = $1,980.00 Annually. FYI

[raceman62race]

Interesting numbers... N.W. Michigan just got above ZERO F today... Anyways 5 Year Avg for my 3,200 SqFt Equals = AVG $100.00 for Lp and AVG $65.00 Electric, Per Month = $1,980.00 Annually. FYI

 

Heating really isn't the big issue for us in GA. Last year, we only had a couple of days it actually got below freezing and my power bill averaged about $120.00 month. If it gets into the teens and stays there several days like we have just experienced, my bill will go slightly over $300.00. But during this time I did bust a water pipe in my barn one morning and I didn't find it until I got home from work and the well ran for several hours before I found it. . We are experiencing one of the coldest winters the south has had in years. In the summer it averages $180.00 - $200.00. It's not unheard of for us to have 3 months of 100+ deg weather without rain in the summer. May not be the best set up I could have gotten but it seems to be at the top of the list as compared to everyone I have talked to in this area

[tazmocycle]

checkout with your local utility company and they will be able to do an energy acessment review for you and most times it don't cost anything. they will tell you what the heat loss of your house is and the amount of hvac needed to do the job. even if you get just a heat pump, they need to install an outdoor t-stat to cut off the hp below 35 degrees, because below that point when it goings into defrost, it is running the a/c and heat at the same time to get rid of the frost that forms on the outdoor unit. so it cost you twice the power to run it in that mode. they now make variable speed blower unit to kept the outlet air at a higher temp. so it don't feel cool coming out of the vents. a dual-fuel system use gas or oil heat instead of electric heat and give you the warm air in lower temps. goodman is made by goodman factory in tyler, Tx and they also make amanna and a few other names, they'll even put your name on them if you order enough from them. they come with 5 yrs warrenty standard but if your go on-line and register it, they will make it 10 yrs (lot of dealers won't tell you that). ruud is made by rheem corp, they're the same thing but differant colors. you can also just ask your mom and dad how the hvac system thats now in the house does to see if it the right size. if it keeps the house comfortable year-round then it ok. if it struggles during summer or winter then you need to increase it's size up accordingly. i have been doing hvac work for over 40 yrs and seen all kind of crap put in by people that should know better. i always tell folks to get at less 2 bids or more to get the most for their money. check with the bbb to see how they rate the co's you are dealing with to make sure they stand behind what they do. you can also get a bidding war going, but make sure you have a contract with them of what they are to do and they do it. good luck with your search and know you can bounce any Q's off me, don.

[cb1313]

I replaced a 40 year old unit last year. To find the best unit and installer go ask your neighbors. Walk around town and look for newer unit with a house like yours. No information on the internet can help with things like heating, sliding and roofs better than the peole the live where you do. Just knock on the door, explain what you are doing and most people will talk your ear off.

Let me know if it worked for you ? Last year I did new sliding,roof,some windows and the heat pump.

 

cb

[Guest seuadr]

My parents are getting ready to replace there 25yr old bryant heat pump system with something more efficiant since they are getting 500 plus elec bills and cant get gas were they are. I know there are some real good systems out there and some bad ones who recomnds what and why?? Im trying to help them out with all the info I can. I did do some hvac for a awhile so I do know some but not who has the best and why. Thanks

before you worry about replacing the unit doing the heating, consider all the other factors for heating in the house. The house i bought this summer was uninsulated, no window sealing, no vapor barrier, nothing. They were paying 580 dollars a month because the oil 70% they had was running non stop. I insulated with a foam that is also a vapor and air barrier, and now we're going on the 4th month on the same tank of oil. We also have used less than half the wood in the aux wood burner than they had this time last year. sealing the windows so they don't flow air and getting at least 36'' of loose fill insulation in the attic made a huge difference as well. we are averaging about 100 dollars a month between wood and oil and the house is always no socks comfortable.

 

Most places will do a free manual J and/or IR camera auditing and you can see where the heat loss is comming from. chances are if you fill on those gaps/leaks that bill even with the current heat pump will be reduced significantly.

 

Also, if your parents live in the same area as you, they can definitally get a heatpump that will fill their needs, carrier makes some great ones, as do lenox. Ask for a 2 stage system, and make sure it's got a C.O.P of at least 5. With a 2 stage system you can heat efficently right down to below zero.

[uncledj]

Mostly sounds good, but the two stage system sounds expensive and potentially troublesome.

I think the COP relates only to ideal operating circumstances. As the temp drops, so does the COP, which is why I like to shut them down when it starts getting cold. When the COP starts getting down below 2, I'd rather save the equipment from running in those frigid conditions.

 

I never did like heat pumps.....and I was an Ohio Edison authorized heat pump tech.....back when I did residential work in the 90s (went through their school). I used to work on them, but I'd never own one if I could avoid it.

 

BUT.....opinions vary.

[hale374]

I had a York system on my house, placed there by the builder. It crapped out in 3 years. York is horrible. I have natural gas with A/C. I switched to a Trane and love it. Energy bills went down and the house feels much warmer during the winter. I also installed the humidifier on the system which is the best money I've ever spent. I highly suggest one as I keep the temperature lower, but it feels warmer with the humidity. Plus no more dry noses or skin. I also had a Goodman at my previous house which ran for 18 years before I replaced it with another. Good luck on whatever you choose.

[Sideoftheroad]

We had an a/c unit and it crapped out literally 1 week before the 10 yr anniversary. Been told that is their expected lifetime and that as well for a heat pump.

 

We replaced it w/ a Bryant heat pump system. Cooler air does come out of the registers and some people do not like that. Dial one did ours about 14-15 months ago. Many of the suggestions on this board they did: took into consideration room and house dimensions, window locations, etc...Took all the info. and calculated why type of system would work good for our house w/out overworking the new heat pump system.

 

We have a programmable thermostat too. One of their suggestions that we did not follow is to run the blower 24/7. Don't agree w/ that because the blower uses electricity which means higher electric bill. Defeats the purpose of saving $$$$. Sure saves on the gas bill, but not looking for an electric bill to sky rocket. Our system does switch over around 25-30 degrees. Don't remember the exact # right now.

 

All I can say is with Dial one, I am mostly happy with them. Besides screwing us over for an extra $500 at the end of the deal and calling it whatever b.s. fee was just wrong. I think he gave himself and/or the person that did the financing an extra commission. Just my opinion and will never be proven. The opposite end of that I got on heck of warranty covered by Dial One that I wonder if anyone could touch and it didn't cost me any extra(probably was already built into the purchase price anyway). I will have to look at all the paperwork to see what all it does. But I remember lifetime this and lifetime that. Never have to worry about paying for anything if/when it breaks down.

 

Also added a whole house humidifier. I am sure opinions vary about their worth just like the different types of systems.

 

I am a pack rat when it comes to our bills, but I haven't compared the cost of the old a/c unit compared to the heat pump. Maybe this will be enough motivation to get some #'s for you. One of the sales point was electricity costs less to run than gas.

 

We usually keep the house at 68 degrees year round. Our biggest culprit for heat loss is doors, windows and electrical outlets. Yes even the outlets. One some of them I can feel a breeze. I tried one of those foam things but still feel the breeze. Suppose I could squirt some of that expanding foam on the sides of the outlet if I can get the nozzle positioned right. On the windows the breeze isn't coming from loose caulking or what have you. It is actually coming from the bottom of the window where it is supposed to meet the window frame when you close it. Can still feel a breeze there. It is kinda like even though the window is shut all the way, it is just a tad small to completely close the gap at the bottom. Believe it not on those commercials for the things you slide under the bottom of a door or window do work. We have them under a couple doors and don't feel breezes under them anymore. Haven't done them to the windows to see.

 

Our new furnace model # is Bryant Plus 80v. The furnace manual says model # 315AAV/JAV & and heat pump manual says Bryant 223A/224A/225A. I know there are higher efficency models but like someone else said, We bought the highest value we could afford. We have a 3k square footage (believe that includes the garage).

 

Our only thing was when the a/c crapped out it was freaking cold out so we had a sense of urgency to get heat again. Wished we could have done some more window shopping and gotten more bids.

[Guest seuadr]

Mostly sounds good, but the two stage system sounds expensive and potentially troublesome.

I think the COP relates only to ideal operating circumstances. As the temp drops, so does the COP, which is why I like to shut them down when it starts getting cold. When the COP starts getting down below 2, I'd rather save the equipment from running in those frigid conditions.

 

I never did like heat pumps.....and I was an Ohio Edison authorized heat pump tech.....back when I did residential work in the 90s (went through their school). I used to work on them, but I'd never own one if I could avoid it.

 

BUT.....opinions vary.

i think you'll find the tech has come a long way

 

the two stage systems are proven, at this point. they have been in use in larger applications for decades. The cop does go down with temp, and you'll find that on many systems the heatpump will cut out at around 35 degrees. this is where things get expensive, because unless you have a secondary heat source, like a backup furnace, the element heaters heat at a cop of 1. which is about as inefficent as you can get. but if you find a 2 stage unit that heats ideally at a cop of 8, which is becomming pretty common, at 35, it still can heat at a cop of around 3.5 to 4.

 

any company worth the time will run a balance point scenerio and show you the results. it will show you exactly what the heat pump will do, btu wise at what temps. then you can see where the btu's fall below the heat load. Many of these two stage jobs don't hit balance point until around or below zero, and continue to run with aux resistance heat, which is still producing a more efficent heat energy wise than just straight resistance heat.

 

but, then again, any company worth the time will talk with you and see all the factors before recommending any type of system.

 

(P.s.uncledj, not trying to ruffle your feathers, just am a bit of a fan of heat pumps myself. assuming they are properly sized and installed. which doesn't happen nearly as much as it should.)

[Guest seuadr]

We have a programmable thermostat too. One of their suggestions that we did not follow is to run the blower 24/7. Don't agree w/ that because the blower uses electricity which means higher electric bill.

Your furnace actually has a multi-frequency DC drive blower, it uses next to no electricity in comparison to traditional psc blower motors. their idea is that by circulating the air constantly your filter does it's job better, your humidity will balance out, and the warm air pockets will get moved around the whole house. but it sounds like you keep it at a specific temp and stick with it, so most of the reasons they recommended it are moot for you, because it's to help prevent people from hunting for a comfy temp with the units. they work best when they stick at a constant.

We usually keep the house at 68 degrees year round. Our biggest culprit for heat loss is doors, windows and electrical outlets. Yes even the outlets. One some of them I can feel a breeze. I tried one of those foam things but still feel the breeze. Suppose I could squirt some of that expanding foam on the sides of the outlet if I can get the nozzle positioned right. On the windows the breeze isn't coming from loose caulking or what have you. It is actually coming from the bottom of the window where it is supposed to meet the window frame when you close it.

we had the exact same problem. expanding foam will work for those boxes. do you have regular insulation like fill or bat? if not, i'd consider getting a foam insulation installed. will make a HUGE difference in most cases. i know it did in our house. there is a 3'' gap around windows when they are installed. the builder should have filled that with expanding foam or at the very least fibreglass bat, but i'm guessing if you pulled your window face trim off, you'll find he didnt. the expanding foam will work fine there, too. just make sure you don't use the high expansion factor stuff, can push on the sides of the window frame and make the window stick when opening and closing.

[uncledj]

SEUDAR

Don't worry, you won't ruffle my feathers...I enjoy a good discussion.

You sound pretty up on this stuff, and I'll admit I've been out of the residential game for a while, but I've still gotta stick to my guns on advising this guy against a heat pump, in favor of a fossil fuel furnace....preferably natural gas, if not available then propane, but not too sure I'd want fuel oil....STINKY AND DIRTY.....

I'm sure that you're right that the COP on the new equipment is much better at lower temps, but I can't help but to think it's unhealthy for the outdoor unit to run at those low temps., especially considering that the lower COP at the lower temps would require longer run times.

I don't think the COP applies to fossil fuels, but it's easy to argue that a propane furnace (and certainly a natural gas furnace) would provide more heat and reliability for less cost than an all electric system, although I'd imagine the heat pump would fare well when the temps are up.....but even then you'd have to factor in the shortened life of the heat pump caused by excessive running hours. (As compared to a conventional A/C condensing unit)

The system and installer you're speaking of sounds quite expensive, and while I've noticed that the high efficiency furnaces have become a lot more reliable over the years, I still like to keep it simple. Simplicity usually means added reliability, less initial expense, and lower repair costs when the time comes.

I work for a national hvac company that only does commercial and industrial type work. I'm a service technician, so I don't have much to do with the design and install of this stuff, but my "simpler is better" attitude comes from years of working on this stuff, and seeing what works and what doesn't.

As I think of it, it's been my experience that the energy savings that folks are sold on when they buy a pricey system are rarely realized. (At least that's what the majority of people seem to say a few years down the road )

 

I would not argue that a two stage, or modulating system with a freq. drive blower motor, and something other than electric backup would be a great system to have, at least initially, but I don't know that the original poster is looking to suggest making that kind of investment to Ma and Pa.

As far as the programmable thermostat goes, the Honeywell 8000 series are pretty cool, and you can set them for "circ." mode, which kicks the blower on intermittently to offer the benefits of air circulation without requiring the blower to run constantly.....might not be as quiet as a freq. drive slowed down, but a lot cheaper. The thermostat cost would be somewhere around $160, and I'm sure any Venturerider could install it themselves, if they had you or I to advise as needed.

 

Well,....this is turning into quite a thread....I'm enjoying it thoroughly.

creds:

23+ yrs hvac tech (Field Supervisor)

OH Licensed hvac contractor

OH Licensed refrigeration contractor

UA Building trades journeyman

Licensed Med Gas Installer

Licensed Backflow installer / tester

RSES Certificate Mechanic (CM)

 

Been through more classes over the years than I can remember....

Just completed the "Green Awareness" Technician training.

(Just tootin' my horn a bit)

 

And I've still got a lot to learn......but I enjoy learnin' it.

[Sylvester]

This is a great thread!!! I bought 7.5 acres five years ago and built a "factory built" home on the property two years ago. This is a 3300sf home and I went with LP since we are in the rural area. I have never been happier. This R&L home has six inch insulated walls and I purchase around $1000 of fuel per year. I run two furnaces (Carrier) for up and down, the hot water and the stove/range. In addition my electrical runs at max $120 in summer (AC) and $55 in winter. And with the LP, my back up generator insures me winter comfort. I am sold on LP. I have lived in Ohio, Iowa, Nebraska, Texas and now North Carolina and I have never paid less for comfort.

 

[tazmocycle]

most good companies will set down with you and decuss all the opitions with you and see what fits your needs. you need to look at your needs, comfort and short & long term cost to decide what you need. it makes a lot of differances if you'll be living there a few years or 10 or more years as far as pay-back on the system. if i'm not going to stay but a few years there, then i'd just put in a start line priced system. for long-term i'd go for a more energy saving system to recope my investment. these are some of the things them should talk with you about and explain it all to you. and like i said before, get at least 2 or more estimates to keep them honest. the idea about asking around your neighbors is also a good piece of advice. we always say a displeased customer will cost you a bunch of bussiness. most people will tell you about a bad experince faster than a good one.