Starter Clutch Mod

[Snaggletooth]

All you need to send to Dano is the rotor itself and the shim/washer that is under the old engage clutch.

 

Everything else in the mod is provided by Dano. The new and completely different engage clutch with the new ring gear to match the engage clutch. He machines the new mounting holes and aligns the engage with new hardware.

 

Mike

[Snaggletooth]

I ran into a rider the other day on another '84 Venture while at a fuel stop. We got to comparing notes on our bikes and he was impressed with his new purchase EXCEPT for the, as he described it, "the Ungodly banging" it had recently developed when starting. My hearing is shot but all it took was laying my hand on the left side of the case to tell him what the noise was. His starter engage clutch was shot. He listened to mine and was surprised at the difference in sound and feel as my bike had considerably more miles than his. I had to run through the upgrades and mods done to mine over the years to explain why. It's a long list but the the one that got his attention with the Dano starter engage clutch mod. I had to stop and think about when I did that one. I pulled up the site and found it's been 5 1/2 years since I got the mod done by Dano.

 

So 5 1/2 years isn't that long on a bike 31 years old is it. But at the time I did mine I was running a customer service route using my bike as it covered a lot of miles with up to 15 or 20 starts and stops at clients stores 7 days a week. When my engage failed it meant using my car for the route. My cost factor to run that route jumped a notch. Danos mod put me back on the bike in short order. I continued that route for another 3 years with never a missed beat from the engage. Not to mention the Venture was my daily ride for all travel and over the last year camping around the Midwest in sometimes remote places where a failure to start would have been, well difficult to deal with.

 

So with all that said, it wasn't the only mod done to my bike but probably one of the most critical ones to keep the bike roadworthy and reliable. I just wanted to say thanks Dano for the work.

 

So as I was getting ready to take off he mentioned he was going wait a bit for the bike to cool off. It was difficult to start when the bike was hot. So..... off on another mod story. He now knows the club website and what to look for. Maybe he'll join soon. I hung around long enough to make sure he got rolling. He seemed happier knowing his bike might last him another 8 year with a little TLC that this group provides so well.

 

So that's just the short side of the benefits of some of the mods found here.

 

Thanks to all of the guys here.

 

Snagg

 

[Geobob]

Well the starter motor ground mod did not do much but make realize that I should do this clutch mod and find a four brush starter. Is this modified clutch repair still available..?

[Dano]

Yes it is to all our VR guys/girls out there. Unfortunately the price is $335 with gaskets since Yamamama "needs" to make more outta these parts.....

[KISA]

Cheap option - more solid bolts. Though a clutch from Royal Star-eternal the decision.

[Prairiehammer]

Dano,

Since a new Sprag unit (starter clutch) from Yamaha is so expensive, could not one just purchase a used Second Gen Venture rotor with clutch, remove it from the unusable Second Gen rotor and send you the Second Gen clutch and a First Gen rotor? You would then machine the First Gen rotor to accept the Second Gen starter clutch at a big savings for parts. I presume one would also have to have the Second Gen big gear?

[Dano]

Dano,

Since a new Sprag unit (starter clutch) from Yamaha is so expensive, could not one just purchase a used Second Gen Venture rotor with clutch, remove it from the unusable Second Gen rotor and send you the Second Gen clutch and a First Gen rotor? You would then machine the First Gen rotor to accept the Second Gen starter clutch at a big savings for parts. I presume one would also have to have the Second Gen big gear?

 

 

Yessir, if you wanted to go that route it is a bit less expensive, but you'd have to find a 2nd gen that's not running anymore!

[FiDude]

I'm going crazy trying to figure out what I could've done wrong. :bang head::bang head:

I just did the Dano starter clutch mod and put everything back together. (84 VR

Initially the starter would only click and nothing else - so loosened the side panel (by the crankshaft bold) and turned the engine manually a couple of times and then the starter kicked in. The starter brushes were also changed and the whole thing cleaned as I had the starter clutch apart anyway.

The problem now is that the crankshaft bolt starts to loosen itself as the starter turns the motor over.

Used new gaskets from Dano and a very light coating of sealer as recommended by the local Yamaha dealer.

Did I miss some step along the way in putting it back together ?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Prairiehammer]

The problem now is that the crankshaft bolt starts to loosen itself as the starter turns the motor over.

Did I miss some step along the way in putting it back together ?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

When you turned the engine over by hand did you improperly use the crankshaft rotor bolt to turn the engine? Or did you properly use the big hexagonal boss on the generator rotor/flywheel to turn the engine? If you used the rotor bolt, you may have loosened it.

Did you re-torque the crankshaft rotor bolt to the specified 94 ft/lbs?

 

An unrelated note: While you have the chrome cover off, make sure that your Venture received the stator cooling kit. The crankshaft rotor bolt should have a hole drilled through its center and a crooked wire oil slinger should be present in the hole.

[FiDude]

 

 

Prairiehammer,

Thanks for the reply

Yes, I did use the crankshaft bolt to turn the engine (which I'm guessing was the wrong thing to based on your msg)

yes, it was torqued to 94lb/ft

yes, it does have the stator cooling kit installed

 

I did take the starter clutch out last night

I think I found a couple of problems

1. the keyway was "split" into two pieces

2. the stator bolt head is half ground off

3. found a small scuff mark on the crankshaft right next to where the keyway is supposed to go - but not gouged or scored

Hope I didn't do any damage to the crankshaft - based on pics do you think I damaged something

 

Also can I buy just the keyway somewhere ?

[Prairiehammer]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]100912[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]100913[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]100914[/ATTACH]

 

 

Prairiehammer,

Thanks for the reply

Yes, I did use the crankshaft bolt to turn the engine (which I'm guessing was the wrong thing to based on your msg)

yes, it was torqued to 94lb/ft

yes, it does have the stator cooling kit installed

 

I did take the starter clutch out last night

I think I found a couple of problems

1. the keyway was "split" into two pieces

2. the stator bolt head is half ground off

3. found a small scuff mark on the crankshaft right next to where the keyway is supposed to go - but not gouged or scored

Hope I didn't do any damage to the crankshaft - based on pics do you think I damaged something

 

Also can I buy just the keyway somewhere ?

 

It appears that the rotor/flywheel became loose, allowing it to slide toward the stator. One or more of the starter clutch bolt ends caught the stator mounting screw head(s). When the interference happened, the woodruff key may have been sheared then. If you tried to torque the crankshaft bolt after that happened, the specified torque may have been indicated but the sheared woodruff key may have prevented the rotor from seating fully on the taper of the crankshaft. The rotor has to be keyed in the proper position; if it is off, the timing will be off. I'm guessing the rotor came off relatively easily? Usually the rotor is a bear to get loose.

In addition to the damage to the stator mounting screws, the stator windings are also scraped and damaged. You will need three new stator mounting screws and a new stator. The Woodruff key should be available at your local Yamaha dealer. That same key (PN. 90280-05029-00) has been used on hundreds of Yamahas, right up to some 2015 models.

I don't believe the crankshaft key slot is damaged enough to render the crankshaft ruined.

[h=1][/h]

[FiDude]

Yes, the rotor came off very easily almost no tightening of the puller was needed.

I've called all the local yamaha dealers in the area and nobody has it in stock and they all have to order it

 

I wonder if local hardware stores would carry the woodruff key

 

The stator windings didn't look damaged but in the pic it looks like it - I think that is just the shavings off the mounting screws - I will check it again in person

[Flyinfool]

After talking on the phone it was determined that the key was not in the slot on the flywheel when he torqued the bolt. This left the flywheel sticking out to far and caused the damage to the stator and its screws. When he went to start the bike the flywheel spun on the shaft until the key fell into the slot, that is what caused to bolt to be loose and falling out on its own. With the flywheel loose there was enough free play to let the flywheel rock back and forth to shear the key.

 

It looks like he might be lucky with the stator, It looks like some insulation was scraped off the windings but that the conductors may not be damaged. He will look closer to verify. If it is just the insulation scraped off it can be repaired with a few coats of varnish and a smear of epoxy. Either way those stator screws will be a bear to get out.

[FiDude]

 

Took a look at the stator - doesn't look "damaged" or broken wires - looks like there are "scrapes" on the wiring (pic attached - can post more if needed of anything specific)

Hopefully I can "fix" them as FlyinFool suggested

Can't even get any kind of "grip" on the screw heads to try to take them out

No local Yamaha dealer has the keyway in stock - they all have to order it

I'm going to go try the local ace hardware (as one of the dealers suggested) and see if they have something

 

Any suggestions would be welcome

[FiDude]

Am I better off getting a "used" crankshaft cover with the stator in it than trying to pry the current stator screws off and "fixing" the current stator

Here are some that I found on ebay - any suggestions on which one "looks" good

Unless someone in the group here has one available

 

 

 

Thanks in advance for all the help.

[Flyinfool]

It is hard to tell in the pic, but that wire fro 10:00 to 11:00 in that pic sure looks like it is scraped.

It is not just if a wire is cut, if there is any damage the reduces the cross section of the wire, then there is a good chance it will burn out soon.

[Jayceesfolly]

I would use a little heat, from a propane torch, on the three screw heads of the stator, as they are secured with Loctite. Then use small vise grips to get the screws started out.

Can't help you with the scraped wires, I'm electrically challenged and wouldn't know a good wire from a bad one.

 

 

Jim

[syscrusher]

The heat is a good idea. If you're scrapping that stator then put toothpaste all around the circumference of that screw. It's cheap heat protection paste and it will also prevent the filler material from bonding to the stator plate. Then braze in the part of the screw that is missing with some gear building brass filler rod. When that has cooled carefully use your Dremel tool with a cutoff disc to turn the phillips head screw into a flat head screw (cut a slot across it). Finally, use a manual impact driver to remove the screw. A manual impact driver is the kind you hit with a hammer. Make sure the impact driver is set to turn counter-clockwise when struck. Or buy a new cover with the stator installed. How does your existing cover look? Mine is UGLY! Maybe I'd cover your shipping costs to send me the one you won't use..........

[Dano]

Pic #2 is the only one that the stator doesn't "look burnt". The darker images on the windings are indicative of too much "high amperage" or "shorting out" going on.....I agree with Flyinfool and that's why I had you talk to him about this....

 

Good luck in the repairs.

 

Dano

[camos]

I would use a little heat, from a propane torch, on the three screw heads of the stator, as they are secured with Loctite. Then use small vise grips to get the screws started out.

Can't help you with the scraped wires, I'm electrically challenged and wouldn't know a good wire from a bad one.

 

 

Jim

If the visegrips can't grab the screw head well enough to get it out then grind the heads off, remove the stator and see if vicegrips will remove the remaining shaft. If not, apply some more heat to the shaft and perhaps some penetrating oil before trying again. When removing stuck screws you must be firm but gentle and persuasive. Snapping one off is migraine territory.

[FiDude]

Thanks for the suggestions all.

 

Sorry I haven't been on in a couple of days as I've been in the hospital with my Dad.

 

I will try the suggestions as soon as possible.

[yosimitesam]

I just bought an 88 venture royal 1300 & knew it had starter issues. So I replaced starter with a new one & the problem got worse. So next is to replace starter clutch. After reading many threads on VR I see this is a commonly re-occuring problem. Is your starter clutch mod still available? Everything I've read it sounds like a great cure all solution.

[yosimitesam]

I just bought an 88 venture royal 1300 & knew it had starter issues. So I replaced starter with a new one & the problem got worse. So next is to replace starter clutch. After reading many threads on VR I see this is a commonly re-occuring problem. Is your starter clutch mod still available? Everything I've read it sounds like a great cure all solution.

 

thanks,

Yosimitesam

[FiDude]

Hello All

Sorry for taking so long to get back on - Dad's medical problems and hospital visits took up quite a bit of time. He is recovering and doing better.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions that were given to fix my problems.

I wound up buying a new side cover with the stator (one suggested by DanO from the pics I had posted earlier)

The end of the wires did not have the standard connectors - took a while to figure out which wire goes where - hopefully I have it right.

 

I had a heck of a time trying to find a replacement keyway (to replace the one that broke) - took over a month and a half (every dealer I called said it was on back order) to find one in MA and it took them almost 2 more weeks to mail it out - have no idea why.

 

Anyway finally put everything back together (definitely a major learning experience for me) and started it yesterday (after almost 2 years). (WAS MUSIC TO MY EARS - yeaaaahhhh)

The cranking/starting problems I was having are finally gone - hope it stays that way.

 

Having a couple of problems after all that

 

1. A tiny oil leak from the bottom of the new side cover near the shift lever - don't know if the side cover itself has an issue (like a crack) or something is not sealed right - everything is tight - double checked.

 

2. Since I used to have a constant overheating problem before - I thought why not fix that too since I had most of the front of the bike apart anyway to change the starter clutch and rebuild the starter

I changed the O-rings and the thermostat (which seemed to be stuck in the closed position - hopefully causing the overheating) -

 

Now I'm having a water leak from where the bypass tube goes into the thermostat housing base (pics attached) - (Don't know why the pics turned sideways)

I have reseated it multiple times trying to see if the leak will stop - but no luck.

Even tried to use an o-ring that was listed for a 2000 VMAX 1200 ( was a very tight fit trying to get it in there) - but didn't seem to help either.

 

I checked with the local dealer and they verified that there is NO o-ring or gasket that is supposed to be in that location.

Looking for suggestions on what can be done to hopefully stop the leak.

 

Someone suggested using "RTV" (I'm guessing that is some sort of silicone sealer) - to stop the leak - don't know if that is the correct solution.

Would appreciate any suggestions/solutions for the problem.

Edited October 15, 2015 by FiDude

[Flyinfool]

1.

The oil leak might be from near the top where the stator wires exit the cover. That is a very common leak point.

If it is leaking at the bottom, you probably missed a little cleaning up of the old gasket or gouged one of the gasket surfaces while cleaning.

 

2.

When you had that out did you clean the hole?

There is often a lot of corrosion in there that makes it hard to seal. If the surfaces are pitted an o-ring alone will not seal against a pitted surface. You will either have to smooth it out or cheat with some sealant. It also looks like you have the tube tilted and not aligned with the bore.