Water temp adapter seal

[Ponch]

A few out of the dozens of water temp gauge installations have reported leakage at the adapter. I think we have found a cure.

 

I sell the adapters with a 18mm crush washer. The problem occurs where the inside diameter of the washer meets the outside diameter of the adapter. There is a recess machined into the adapter which allows the washer to slide over to one side which will not seal.

 

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv87/dawarren77377/Bike%20shots/waterseal3.jpg?t=1263574491

 

To solve this issue place a 1/2" ID X 3/32" thick o'ring between the adapter and the crush washer. Make sure the tabs on the washer face away from the o'ring. With the o'ring in place against the washer, the tabs should still engage the threads.

 

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv87/dawarren77377/Bike%20shots/waterseal4.jpg?t=1263574679 http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv87/dawarren77377/Bike%20shots/waterseal5.jpg?t=1263574858 http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv87/dawarren77377/Bike%20shots/waterseal6.jpg?t=1263574887

 

The o'ring alone would work if the adapter had a groove machined in it to prevent the o'ring from squishing out (like the water jacket plug removed from the cylinder head). The washer holds the o'ring in place and the o'ring holds the washer centered.

 

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv87/dawarren77377/Bike%20shots/waterseal7.jpg?t=1263574917

 

The o'ring is available at most hardware/home improvement stores. The one I bought was a #35 o'ring, however all o'ring manufacturers may not use the same number.

 

If anyone who has bought a kit from me needs either the crush washer or the o'ring, let me know.

 

Also, I have received a request to announce what tools I use to remove the water jacket plug and install the adapter. Most use a standard 10mm "L" or Allen style wrench for removal.

 

A 10mm hex bit/adapter to 3/8" drive works well for plug removal. You can put a breaker bar on the hex tool for leverage. I sawed one inch off of a 10mm "L" wrench which I can use a 10mm box wrench or a socket and ratchet. It is important to use a hex that is in good shape. If a rounded hex tool is used and the plugs is damaged, you have problems.

 

I use a 7/8" or 22mm socket with ratchet to install the adapter. If I have a leak or need to tweak the adapter after it is installed, I use a tubing wrench. You don't have to buy an expensive tubing wrench. I bought a $3.00 combination wrench at a pawn shop and ground a 1/4" slot in the box end. This slides over the thermocouple tube easily. I also use a 5/8" (16mm) tubing wrench for the thermocouple nut.

 

Cheers, Ponch

[Sylvester]

Thanks for your suggestion and it worked great.

 

[Cougar]

Thanks for the info Ponch.

Were do you get just the crush washer from Ponch?

I will be of to Lowes tomorrow after work.

 

I have had mine off three times now and it

still leaks , so the above fix should take care of it!

 

I found that a low profile 7/8th 3/8 drive socket works great to get in that tight spot.

I also cut a 10MM Allen to about 2 inches and put a 10mm socket over the top of the Allen to remove the original caps.

 

Thanks for all your hard work!

 

Jeff

Edited January 17, 2010 by Cougar

[Sylvester]

Cougar,

 

You can get them with an 18mm anti foul adapter or with an 18mm spark plug with the straight threads.

 

[Cougar]

Thanks... But I have ran out of them and was wondering if I can buy them

by themselfs. and I have pleanty of non-fouler plugs now *LOL* (3)

Jeff

[Sylvester]

I can testify that this will be the last one you will need if you use the O ring. Ponch and I talked about it (his idea) and I installed it Thursday and it worked great. I already ruined two crush washers trying to get the seal, but they always deformed. The O ring acts as additional seal. I warmed Sylvester up to 210 degrees, shut him down, let him cool down some and restarted. No leak at all! Made me feel like a mekanik!

 

[Cougar]

AWESOME , That is great to hear!

So many crushed washers. I was going CRAZY!

[Ponch]

I haven't found them for sale, but I did buy a bulk quantity from old stock. I can send you a washer and o'ring.

[jlh3rd]

the 0-ring by itself has worked just fine for me.........

[Cougar]

Email Sent Ponch!

Thanks.

[Sylvester]

the 0-ring by itself has worked just fine for me.........

 

I thought about just the O ring, but I was concerned that it would be cut by the edge of the aluminum head and maybe leak some time in the future. The crush washer affords protection from the O ring seating on the head.

 

[jlh3rd]

no argument from me....and if mine starts to leak, i now have another method to use.....just wanted to let people know that i've had no issues with just an 0-ring

[camos]

That adapter looks like a standard o-ring fitting used in hydraulic applications that fit into an aluminum or cast metal casing where the standard tapered pipe fitting may cause a split when tightening. If I remember correctly, there should be a washer but it doesn't need to be a crush washer. Perhaps the place to look for washers would be a hydraulic supply outlet.

[Cougar]

Ponch, A $2.97 CHAMPION PLUG (Crush Washer) Fits Perfect with only a slight side to side movement,

about half as much as the non-fouler crush washer and no side to side moment at all with the #35 above it.

Found them in an ACE hardware store here in Iowa. Darn HUGE plug!

 

It is also a 18MM Size in the book. I also found the Number 35 O-rings at Lowe's

I have not received anything yet. If I do I will mail that parts back to you.

 

Part Number is 515 D15Y and yes I am using the #35 above it for extra protection, not sure I needed it though now?

 

Don't tell VGoose, I like Champion's now PERFECT FIT

Edited January 22, 2010 by Cougar

[SilvrT]

the 0-ring by itself has worked just fine for me.........

 

Same for me but thanks for this great idea albeit a "tad" late for me LOL

[Ponch]

Ponch, A $2.97 CHAMPION PLUG (Crush Washer) Fits Perfect with only a slight side to side movement,

about half as much as the non-fouler crush washer and no side to side moment at all with the #35 above it.

Found them in an ACE hardware store here in Iowa. Darn HUGE plug!

 

It is also a 18MM Size in the book. I also found the Number 35 O-rings at Lowe's

I have not received anything yet. If I do I will mail that parts back to you.

 

Part Number is 515 D15Y and yes I am using the #35 above it for extra protection, not sure I needed it though now?

 

Don't tell VGoose, I like Champion's now PERFECT FIT

 

Jeff, It's not worth the postage. Just keep it.

[Cougar]

No More Leaks , Worked perfect!

Thanks!

[dug050]

Just a couple of quick questions, do you use any thread sealer when you install the adapter in the head and if you use an O-ring how tight do you tighten the adapter ?

Since you are compressing the O-ring I wouldn't think it would tighten up the same as using just the crush washer.

 

Thanks

Doug

[jlh3rd]

i used thread sealer, ..and, i just used an 0-ring and just snugged it up....i can't answer for the 0-ring/washer combo....

[Cougar]

I was so frustrated , after 3 try's ,, I went the whole 9 yards....

0-ring/washer combo.... AND Liquid Teflon by Permatex.

[camos]

Just a couple of quick questions, do you use any thread sealer when you install the adapter in the head and if you use an O-ring how tight do you tighten the adapter ?

Since you are compressing the O-ring I wouldn't think it would tighten up the same as using just the crush washer.

The o-ring fitting should have a washer on it. The washer usually has 2 or3 tabs that fit loosely into the straight cut threads to keep the washer in place under the o-ring. When installed, the washer gets stopped by the hole threads so it squeezes the o-ring out to create a seal. The threads of the fitting should have Teflon tape or some other kind of sealer on them to help reduce the pressure on the o-ring. When tight the top end of the fitting should be snug against the case. Finger tight is enough to prevent leakage but 1/4 turn past that should be enough to keep it from coming loose.

 

I was so frustrated , after 3 try's ,, I went the whole 9 yards....

0-ring/washer combo.... AND Liquid Teflon by Permatex.

I prefer using Teflon tape but other than that, the way you did it is what I have always done.

[Ponch]

I use Oatey's Great White Pipe Joint compound. It seams to seal a little better than teflon tape.

http://newsite.oatey.com/apps/catalog/instance_assets/assets/Photo/Grt_White_31231.jpg

[V7Goose]

Sounds like y'all got the sealing problem under control. I never had an issue with it, so I never had a reason to examine the parts closely, but here are a few thoughts. First, I wonder if the problem some are having with this original crush washer is that the adapter is being over-tightened? It really shouldn't need that much torque, and the whole point of a split aluminum crush washer is to seal without being completely mashed.

 

Crush washers USED to be available at auto parts stores - You are never supposed to re-use one on a spark plug, so if you remove the plug to read it, you need to replace the crush washer. Not that I ever replaced one myself, but that is the way it is supposed to be done! Of course, most newer engines and plugs use a tapered seat and no crush washer at all. Between the newer plugs and the fact that 99.9999999% of everyone just ignored the "requirement" to replace the washer on the old type of plugs (just like me), I'm not surprised that they are hard to find, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

 

But I wouldn't buy another split aluminum spark plug crush washer anyway - I suspect you could use any properly sized nylon or copper plug washer to accomplish the same thing without the o-ring. There is a slight chance the rounded base of the brass adapter could cause problems with stretching out a copper washer or breaking a nylon washer. I doubt it, since you shouldn't need to tighten it that much, but if so, I'd just place a tight-fitting steel washer above the copper or nylon washer, then everything should seal right up. If you are using an electrical gauge, the copper washer or steel/copper washer combination is probably your best choice.

Goose

[Ponch]

I've tried copper washers/seals for 18mm plugs. The problem I had was the washer was not tight against the recess in the adapter allowing the washer to shift to one side.

 

If I could find crush washers that had long enough fingers to stay engaged with the threads, I think that's all that would be needed. On the box of crush washers I was able to find, the fingers fall just out of the threads allowing it to shift as well. With the addition of the o'ring to the crush washer, the seal is complete. I did one over the weekend that sealed the first time without over torquing the adapter. I bet I didn't put 20 ft lbs. on it (didn't use a torque wrench though).

 

I have some copper washers left. I think next install I do, I will use the o'ring with the copper washer and see how it does. I suspect you don't even need sealer with a o'ring.

Edit: The crush washers that come with the anti-foulers mesh with the threads better than the replacement washers I bought, but still shift. Of the 30 or so installations that I have heard of, only six have leaked to date. All have been fixed. Also, Cougar reported that he bought a Champion spark plug just for the crush washer and it meshed pretty well.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Ponch
add on info.

[Cougar]

Goose hit it right on the head, before I found the right size crush washer (champion)

and the o-ring. my third step was using a nylon washer and copper gasket the combo stripped the threads on the brass adapter. THANK GOD! after removing I noticed that the nylon was destroyed and the copper gasket seemed to be OK. the combo made the install to tall and not enough threads to grip inside the head.

I still have the 2 copper rings in my drawer for sutur use maybe on day I will test them

with and with-out the rubber -o-ring.

 

Jeff

PS PONCH I sent A few more folks your way to order from you.