Why not a Sixth gear for over drive?

[V7Goose]

I've had my 85 up to about 124 before, and thats in fifth, so i dont think they really need a sixth, if the 2nd gen is like the first gen, going 60 will be at about 3,500rpms

The two bikes are not at all the same in this aspect. The overall drive ratio on the 1st gen bikes in 5th gear is the same as the 2nd gens in 4th gear. In addition, the 1st gens do not have a rev limiter.

Goose

[LilBeaver]

You've got a Yamaha tach?!?!

 

Yep! Thats the one that starts into that red area at about 115 mph in 3rd gear...

 

 

yea yea yea... I was going based off of what he had under his name - ie the 2004 RSV... Hey it was late, or I'm getting old?

[Yammer Dan]

yea yea yea... I was going based off of what he had under his name - ie the 2004 RSV... Hey it was late, or I'm getting old?

 

Riding a 2nd Gen???

[Sailor]

The guy who wrote the manual had a company lawyer looking over his shoulder.

[Bummer]

I checked today. (December 14th and 55 degrees out in Indiana. I kinda like this whole Global Warming thing.) 45 in 5th is 2000 rpm. Way too low for me. Outside of parking lots and stop lights I like to keep it between 3000 and 7500 (dyna).

[Guest tx2sturgis]

That's not true. The best performance and efficiency come at where the torque and horsepower curves intersect.

 

 

 

Since all 'HP vs torque' curves cross at 5252 rpm, thats not actually true in all cases. Smaller engines are usually more efficient and more powerful at higher rpms, large engines are usually more efficient and powerful at lower rpms, generally speaking....of course it depends on piston size and number, and other factors.

 

And yes, 6 gears would tend to be abit of an overkill...with the wide range of rpm that these bikes are comfortable with, the included wide ratio 5 speed is quite adequate for our normal riding speeds....really. I saw an ad for a new Lexus with an EIGHT speed automatic...that seems silly to me, but if it helps sell cars, the maker will do it.

 

6th gear on any bike over 1000cc is a marketing gimmick, unless it is a full race bike.

 

Because of the narrower power band and faster piston speeds on a LARGE V-twin, 6 speed overdrive transmissions have their place...helping to keep the rpms lower.

Edited December 14, 2009 by tx2sturgis

[starkruzen]

Thanks for all the really great info you provided. I gues, it is the pipes I have on and the noise. Anyway, great feedback

 

Mark

[Monsta]

and other factors.

Like bore and stroke.

 

I saw an ad for a new Lexus with an EIGHT speed automatic...that seems silly to me, but if it helps sell cars, the maker will do it.

Expect to see more of this. Just read about the Aprilia Mana 850 GT with a 7 speed! tranny that can be operated as a auto or a manual.

 

It's more about the design of engines today and how they have to respond to ever more stringent emission requirements. A smaller bore, higher RPM engine is better at controlling emissions. Transmissions with more gears are going to be required to keep the engines within an acceptable operating range both for emissions and driver's needs.

 

 

Because of the narrower power band and faster piston speeds on a LARGE V-twin, 6 speed overdrive transmissions have their place...helping to keep the rpms lower.

Don't V-twins have fairly low piston speeds?

[massey130]

You've got a Yamaha tach?!?!

 

Yep. Don't get too worked up, though, it's nuttin fancy. it is one of those digital hour tachometers that is 1" by 3" and is velcro'd on my handlbar next to the fork clamp on the right side. a single wire goes from it routed to a spark plug. it is Yamaha branded. i bought it for 40 bux while in Minnesota visitin family and took a ride into St Cloud and look around. i found the Yama dealership. I do like it very much.

[LilBeaver]

Yep. Don't get too worked up, though, it's nuttin fancy. it is one of those digital hour tachometers that is 1" by 3" and is velcro'd on my handlbar next to the fork clamp on the right side. a single wire goes from it routed to a spark plug. it is Yamaha branded. i bought it for 40 bux while in Minnesota visitin family and took a ride into St Cloud and look around. i found the Yama dealership. I do like it very much.

 

Thanks!! I'm looking to do something that is not mount a bunch of the analog gauges with the expensive housings to my handlebars...

I'm working on something now involving the ignition bezel too, but that isn't so promising...

 

Anyways, thanks again - sounds like another good alternative

[footsie]

6 and 8 speed tranny in performance cars keeps the rpm up, close ratio so the engine does not drop alot of revs at the shift.

 

Overdrive is eng rpm to the drive shaft rpm, in drive the eng crankshaft and the drive shaft are one to one, overdrive has the driveshaft turning a precentage faster than the crank shaft. anywhere from 5% to 30% and the differential is geared for the performance fro the given application. Such as the V-max has a lower gear ratio in the rear end than the RSV.

 

PS all the harley's I ride with, I beat them by about 6 tenths of a gallon on every tank.

None of them can match the RSV's range. They always stop for gas before I hit reserve.

 

Gregg

[saddlebum]

I will tell you why not. I ride a 1st gen and its hard enough to keep it under 125 mph (200 kph) as it is

[Venturous Randy]

I would love to have the gear ratios I have now on my 83 along with a 6th as an overdrive. It would be the perfect set of gears.

RandyA

[YamaDuck]

6 and 8 speed tranny in performance cars keeps the rpm up, close ratio so the engine does not drop alot of revs at the shift.

 

Overdrive is eng rpm to the drive shaft rpm, in drive the eng crankshaft and the drive shaft are one to one, overdrive has the driveshaft turning a precentage faster than the crank shaft. anywhere from 5% to 30% and the differential is geared for the performance fro the given application. Such as the V-max has a lower gear ratio in the rear end than the RSV.

 

PS all the harley's I ride with, I beat them by about 6 tenths of a gallon on every tank.

None of them can match the RSV's range. They always stop for gas before I hit reserve.

 

Gregg

 

Now I'm confused:think::think: I took a trip last July and there were 3 of us 2 Ventures (a 2000 and a 2006) and a 2007 Ultra Classic Screaming Eagle. In S.D. going west on the interstate 80 to 85 MPH both Ventures got about 30 MPG while the HD got about 37 MPG. This was not an isolated instance but at every gas stop day after day.:puzzled:

[V7Goose]

Now I'm confused:think::think: I took a trip last July and there were 3 of us 2 Ventures (a 2000 and a 2006) and a 2007 Ultra Classic Screaming Eagle. In S.D. going west on the interstate 80 to 85 MPH both Ventures got about 30 MPG while the HD got about 37 MPG. This was not an isolated instance but at every gas stop day after day.:puzzled:

This sounds pretty much in line with my experience. Usually an HD will get a little better fuel mileage than we do, but the biggest factor is the speed or head-wind. While your mileage of just 30 MPG seems a little low at 80-85 (if that is what was indicated on a stock RSV, you were only traveling at an actual 75 MPH), it is not too far off. I would normally expect about 33 MPG there unless I also had a head-wind.

 

Our biggest problem is that the 2nd gen bikes have a terrible wind resistance, meaning they are not streamlined. And wind resistance increases logarithmically with speed - meaning the pressure on the bike at 80 MPH is not just twice what it is at 40 MPH, it is WAY more than that. So our MPG numbers fall dramatically and fast as our speed goes above 60.

Goose

[Monsta]

And wind resistance increases logarithmically with speed - meaning the pressure on the bike at 80 MPH is not just twice what it is at 40 MPH, it is WAY more than that.

Aerodynamic pressure/resistance SQUARES with speed. Crazy, huh?

[V7Goose]

Aerodynamic pressure/resistance SQUARES with speed. Crazy, huh?

I bow to your knowledge.

 

I didn't bother to look it up to find the correct term - I just knew it was not a simple 1 : 1 progression. But I believe my point is still accurate - the impact of the air on the bike at 80 MPH isn't simply twice what it is at 40 MPH - it is MUCH worse; therefore, it is normal and expected for fuel mileage to drop off at an ever increasing rate as the speeds increase.

Goose

[LilBeaver]

Aerodynamic pressure/resistance SQUARES with speed. Crazy, huh?

 

The fluid dynamics of a 'typical' object moving through air at STP specifies that the resistance is proportional to the square above ~88 feet per second (~55 mi/hr). It is relatively linear up to that point though. This is the typical approximation made for a 'standard' automobile. For a bike like the RSV (or even the 1st gen) - where the windshield and fairing make a relatively smooth surface for the air to pass over and around, this approximation still holds as good.

 

... I just knew it was not a simple 1 : 1 progression. But I believe my point is still accurate - the impact of the air on the bike at 80 MPH isn't simply twice what it is at 40 MPH - it is MUCH worse; therefore, it is normal and expected for fuel mileage to drop off at an ever increasing rate as the speeds increase.

 

Goose, qualitatively you ARE correct. Nuff said.

 

---

I do not know that the aerodynamic comparison between the Ultra Classic and the RSV is the main culpret though. I suspect it is certainly a mixture of the aerodynamics as well as the gearing, etc.

Anways, I'll quit yammering now...

[Dave77459]

For a bike like the RSV (or even the 1st gen) - where the windshield and fairing make a relatively smooth surface for the air to pass over and around, this approximation still holds as good.

Does the comparatively blunt transition of the RSTD windscreen explain why our MPG is so often much worse than the RSV?

 

Dave

[Chaharly]

The two bikes are not at all the same in this aspect. The overall drive ratio on the 1st gen bikes in 5th gear is the same as the 2nd gens in 4th gear. In addition, the 1st gens do not have a rev limiter.

Goose

 

Oh, well i did not no this!

Thank you

My apologies

[footsie]

I do not know about others but my 04 figures between 37.9 mpg at 85 mph and 46 mpg less than 70mph, every time, I ride with Bobby Hancock who owns a 2007 96 cu.in. electra glide with stage 1 kit in it, when we ride together, he always puts more gas in at every stop, if we go 180 miles, which is his limit, I generally put in 3.9 to 4.3 if we have been running hard then 4.5, he will put in 4.4 to 4.7 and if running hard we stop at 170 miles because he only holds 5 gallons.

Now I know that is really not enough to count about 1/2 gallon each time, but i like to ride 200 miles at the time, and have yet to ride with a harley that can make it.

Oh by the way we go by his speedo, because when his shows 180, mine is showing 183, so we figure mileage by his not mine.

 

 

Guess I better leave mine alone, and not adjust anything.

 

gregg

[LilBeaver]

Does the comparatively blunt transition of the RSTD windscreen explain why our MPG is so often much worse than the RSV?

 

Dave

 

If the gearing on the two bikes are identical (which from the owners manual, it appears that way ), then that would be a logical conclusion. The only other differences would be how the bike is driven, and of course assuming that the carbs, intake, and exhaust are all setup the same.

[YamaDuck]

I do not know about others but my 04 figures between 37.9 mpg at 85 mph and 46 mpg less than 70mph, every time, I ride with Bobby Hancock who owns a 2007 96 cu.in. electra glide with stage 1 kit in it, when we ride together, he always puts more gas in at every stop, if we go 180 miles, which is his limit, I generally put in 3.9 to 4.3 if we have been running hard then 4.5, he will put in 4.4 to 4.7 and if running hard we stop at 170 miles because he only holds 5 gallons.

Now I know that is really not enough to count about 1/2 gallon each time, but i like to ride 200 miles at the time, and have yet to ride with a harley that can make it.

Oh by the way we go by his speedo, because when his shows 180, mine is showing 183, so we figure mileage by his not mine.

 

 

Guess I better leave mine alone, and not adjust anything.

 

gregg

Man that is great gas mileage. Around here I get about 42 mpg combination of all driving. In S.D. me and another guy with a Venture (2000 and 2006) both got 30 mpg when we got above 80 (our speedo) which is incorrect as is the odometer. The Ultra Classic (Screaming Eagle 103 ci) got about 37 mpg. The Ultra Classic as you said has a smaller tank and he told us he needed to fill up at about 170 miles. Well that didn't happen out west and we often went 200 miles between fill ups and once when we got stuck without a filling station we went 225 miles and yes even the Ultra Classic. I think the Ultra Classic riders are afraid of running to low on fuel so they don't push it (because of the fuel injection). But as you can see if they have no other choice they can get over 200 miles on a tank.

[footsie]

Are you running prem or reg, I always run prem, I have checked it both ways and mine gets better gas mileage with prem, especially at highway speeds, at low speeds it does not seem to vary as much but on the interstate its about 4 MPG.

 

Gregg

[RandyR]

Are you running prem or reg, I always run prem, I have checked it both ways and mine gets better gas mileage with prem, especially at highway speeds, at low speeds it does not seem to vary as much but on the interstate its about 4 MPG.

 

Gregg

 

This post makes me wonder if the spark advance for the 2nd gens is right? The only good reason to have to use high test gasoline is if one has a higher compression engine than the 2nd gens have.

 

There is little difference in energy content of regular versus premium gasoline. They both contain about 111,400 British Thermal Units of energy per gallon. Octane is defined as a fuel's resistance to knocking. There is no benefit if the octane is higher than what the engine needs. Engine knock occurs when fuel in a combustion chamber ignites before it should.

 

http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transportation/consumer_tips/regular_vs_premium.html

 

Has anyone with a Dyna3000 played with the high speed spark advance vs gas mileage?

Edited December 18, 2009 by RandyR