pickup coil info / help

[dingy]

pick up coils control two igintion coils each. If just one igintion coil not firing correctly, but others ok I would suspect pickup coils ok.

 

#2 ing coil circuit also controls the feed for the tach-o-meter, and I think something else, but can't remember what right now, maybe something is wrong here killing (shorting or grounding) the feed for the #2 ing coil.

 

Also controls fuel pump

 

If bike is running, #2 coil at least getting input signal

 

Gary

[BreezyCricket]

Thanks to all for the replies.

 

I replaced the ignition coil I thought was causing the problem and this did not help.

 

I then considered the possibility that the pickup coils may be faulty but thought that if this was the case it would most probably affect 2 cylinders, until I read the posting from 'bald dash' explaining the operation of these to me which led to the possibility that maybe something had happened which could have altered the gap of one of the coil sensors, which was highly unlikely, but nevertheless if it is possible to check this I certainly would like to know how to do it.

 

However, being, by now, a reeeal expert, I intend to replace the TCI and will see what happens then.

 

I hope to be able to acquire one on eBay but if I am not successful I certainly would appreciate hearing from anyone who may have one available for sale.

 

Cheers.

[bkuhr]

Also controls fuel pump

 

If bike is running, #2 coil at least getting input signal

 

Gary

 

I was refering to the gy wire from the TCI to the #2 coil input and tach input, and I was incorrect, there is not another system involved with #2 coil input circuit. I was thinking, as Dingy did, other systems involved in TCI running, including fuel pump. I did not have access to schmetic earlier at work.

 

My point was, if having problem with #2 coil, a well as could be caused from TCI or pickup, could also be caused by wiring to tach, or problem within tach. An intermittant short to either ground or power could cause #2 to misfire-non fire, but would also likely show funky readings on the tach itself.

 

Swapping TCI would likely be definitive test, but expensive. May consider disconnect gy wire on back of tach temporarly and tape up to avoid end shorting out against anything. Dont loose very tiny nuts. If you disconnect tach and it clears your #2 trouble, the electronics internal the tach are causing problems, and likely will not be easily repairable-meaning needing a new tach-probably cheaper than TCI

[BreezyCricket]

I haven't ridden this bike for a few years but even with the miss on cylinder #2 then I don't recall any problem with the tachometer.

 

Regardless, I managed to remove the brown 'hood' from the display panel and find that all the instruments are enclosed in a white box which I can't figure out how to detach from the frame so that I can get at the connections and would appreciate if someone could enlighten me on this.

 

If not I can see the Gy wire so will be able to cut this for testing and can re-connect it again afterwards.

 

The voltmeter has never worked and something I did notice is that there are 3 connectors to this, but there are only 2 wires connected, a brown and a black, which I assume is the ground. Does anyone know if there should be a 3rd wire connected.

[bkuhr]

I just re-read this post, and realized this started with baldjosh with #2 miss. Then breezycricket started in wanting to replace pickups. Not sure what model breezycricket has, but schmetic for #2 coil and tach I posted was for my 83.

 

I am assuming breezycricket is having simular problem that baldjosh had, but IMO most likely cause of dead cylinders is fuel/vacum-carb problems vs electrical problems. Could even be low vacum due to needing valve shim needing done.

 

Maybe we need to start over with new thread with actual problems:confused07:

 

I disagree with cutting wires just to make testing easier. Again, need your model type and someone can chime in how to pull dash if you still want to isolate tach grey wire. Volt meter on my 83 does have 3 posts, but just uses 2 wires. Another problem to figure out why it does not work. What is history of bike, has PO butcherd wiring?

 

Just my

[BreezyCricket]

I have a 1984 Venture Royale.

[bald josh]

I never posted the fix to my problem because i wasnt sure back then. bought a 86 and swapped out wire harness, carbs, coils, tci, boost sensor. and the bike was better, but i couldnt have told you what it was. then i got the 86 running and of course found i had the same problem. So i got new coils and that seemed to fix it. the bike ran good till really warm and then the irradic behavior started up, but new coils and problem solved. the fixx was so long after i posted the problem i never expected to see it come up again on the boards.

[BreezyCricket]

I've removed the TCI and opened it to see if there is possibly a problem with one of the internal connections and, as usual, I have another problem.

 

I removed 5 screws holding the board to the casing, at least I assume they do, and would appreciate if someone could tell me if the board should just lift out or should I also undo the 4 nuts which are situated near the plugs.

 

It seems the end plugs that the wiring harness plugs into should also be connected to the board somehow and I sure would hate to wreck something there.

[mbrood]

The nuts holding the power transistors stay... you've pulled the 5 screws, now you need to CAREFULLY desolder the 14 connections to the output connectors.

 

http://www.bergall.org/temp/venture/tci/tci2.jpg

[dingy]

Below is what the box will look like in the way of pins when you remove the board that mbrood showed above. These pictures are of a box that ended up being beyond saving, but are useful for reference. I have higher pixel image of third picture I could email to you that would be easier to make out.

 

Use a very low wattage soldering iron, or the board traces will lift away from board.

 

Second picture is of bad diodes.

 

Third is a detail of where board runs go to. There are some of them on the component side of board, these are shown to help ohm out with a digital VOM after resoldering

 

Gary

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/PICT4627s.jpg

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/diodecorrosion.jpg

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/tci_A_s.jpg

Edited July 23, 2010 by dingy
changed picture designation

[BreezyCricket]

Hi Dingy:

 

Thank you for the offer of the image.

 

If you could E-Mail it to thegallowglass@gmail.com I certainly would appreciate it.

 

Cheers.

[dingy]

Hi Dingy:

 

Thank you for the offer of the image.

 

If you could E-Mail it to thegallowglass@gmail.com I certainly would appreciate it.

 

Cheers.

 

Picture is on its way.

 

I meant that I had a better quality picture of the third one, not the first. I edited post.

 

Gary

[timgray]

That is a normal death for a TCI from what I have seen in the 5 TCI's I have taken apart. the diodes are defective and with time disintegrate. When they drop off the flyback voltage from the coils blows up other items in the TCI rendering it near impossible to fix. I have an electronics engineering degree and I gave up after 12 hours of replacing parts on one that looked new but had the disintegrated diodes like yours has.

 

 

Most used ones on Ebay are in this bad of shape or are ready to fail. I wasted several hundred dollars buying them until I went with a ingitech aftermarket tci.

 

If you can find a good TCI that does not have diode disintegration, good for you! I tried over the course of 4 months and 5 winning auctions to only end up with 5 dead or ready to die TCI's.

 

The ingitech works great and with a tiny bit of work you can replace the tci and add a GM MAP sensor to get a reliable replacement. look for the aftermarket TCI thread for more info.

[BreezyCricket]

I am still working on my problem but came across a posting on one of the forums regarding a modification called the 'Jason Mod'.

 

If I understand this correctly, what is required apparently is that the 2 nipples on cylinder's 1 & 2 be connected, and the same with the 2 on cylinder's 3 & 4.

 

I really don't know what I am doing so could be completely wrong, but my question for the experts then is, connecting the 2 on cylinder's 1 & 2 would mean disconnecting the tube to, I think, the pressure sensor and if this is correct, why is the pressure sensor required?

[mrich12000]

The map sensor is to control the advance in the TCI. Also for altitude, as it is a barometric type of sensor as well, as you got a higher altitude the barometric pressure drops every 1000 feet it is 3 inch of Mercury. Also there may be a power transistor along with a faulty diode.

It would be advantageous to buy that other TCI to get rid of the problem.

The pickups are also called "Hall effect pickups " They supply a Square wave interrupt to make and break signal to the TCI, there the TCI knows which coil to supply power to.. I think this is right. my 2 cents good luck. also, watch your piggies when you put that stator cover back on..

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=28434

Check this out as well..Michael in Calgary..

Edited August 5, 2010 by mrich12000
more info

[dingy]

I am still working on my problem but came across a posting on one of the forums regarding a modification called the 'Jason Mod'.

 

If I understand this correctly, what is required apparently is that the 2 nipples on cylinder's 1 & 2 be connected, and the same with the 2 on cylinder's 3 & 4.

 

I really don't know what I am doing so could be completely wrong, but my question for the experts then is, connecting the 2 on cylinder's 1 & 2 would mean disconnecting the tube to, I think, the pressure sensor and if this is correct, why is the pressure sensor required?

 

The pressure sensor is interconnected with the TCI. When you twist open,or close the throttle, the vacuum pressure changes , signaling the TCI to advance or retard the spark depending on RPM's.

 

I tried the Jason mod a couple of years ago, and I did not see any difference. The vacuum hose is too small of a diameter to do any good. If you do this mod, you would still need the pressure sensor connected. The pressure sensor does help timing, but if you are not 'Running it like you stole it' you probably won't notice it not being hooked up.

 

All it does is attempt to emulate the Vboost system on the Vmaxs. The vboost principle is that there is an additional set of buttrerfly valves between the front & rear carbs on each side. These are built into an interconnected intake manifold. They are operated by a servo motor and an electronic controller. They increase engine performance, by allowing cylinder to draw air/fuel mixture through two carbs instead of one.

 

Gary

[BreezyCricket]

Thank you for the info, and I now have another question, or two.

 

I judge as to whether cylinder 2 on my bike is missing, at least at low rpm's, is by starting it from cold and then feeling the block in the region of the exhaust manifold to see if I can detect heat. If I do this on the other 3 cylinders I certainly do detect heat, but cylinder 2 remains cold and I assume this is because it is not firing. Is this correct?

 

Also, if this IS correct, would I get any meaningful readings if I tried to synchronize the carbs with this cylinder playing dead?

[dingy]

Thank you for the info, and I now have another question, or two.

 

I judge as to whether cylinder 2 on my bike is missing, at least at low rpm's, is by starting it from cold and then feeling the block in the region of the exhaust manifold to see if I can detect heat. If I do this on the other 3 cylinders I certainly do detect heat, but cylinder 2 remains cold and I assume this is because it is not firing. Is this correct?

 

Also, if this IS correct, would I get any meaningful readings if I tried to synchronize the carbs with this cylinder playing dead?

 

 

If it is #2 cylinder not firing, I would think the TCI is OK. The TCI output to #2 cylinder is what operates the tach & fuel pump. If TCI was not outputting a signal, no fuel pump and the bike would not run.

 

My opinion would be until you get that cylinder firing, carb sync would not be real helpful.

 

Have you checked compression on cylinders, checked spark plugs, coils, plug wires.

 

Gary

[bkuhr]

Thank you for the info, and I now have another question, or two.

 

I judge as to whether cylinder 2 on my bike is missing, at least at low rpm's, is by starting it from cold and then feeling the block in the region of the exhaust manifold to see if I can detect heat. If I do this on the other 3 cylinders I certainly do detect heat, but cylinder 2 remains cold and I assume this is because it is not firing. Is this correct?

 

Also, if this IS correct, would I get any meaningful readings if I tried to synchronize the carbs with this cylinder playing dead?

 

I'm fighting simular problem on my 83. I have verified every 'way to sunday', I do have spark on #2 and #4 (my cold to touch cylinders). My plugs in these cylinders appear wet, ie: very rich, almost to the point IMO that they may be flooded and not lighting off. Not sure yet how to verify or rectify. Also considering PO may have flipped coil wiring and spark timing is off, again have not verified yet. Been to hot to work in garage, and wife won't let bike in house:crying:

 

Suggest pull your plugs and see if they are wet. Can provide more info how I verified spark if you want, but figured I would put in my old post once I check some more things out.

 

I have not problem doing sync, even with dead cylinder. It still pulls vacum for the sync gages thru the butterflies.

 

Brian

[BreezyCricket]

The plug on no 2 cylinder was extremely wet.

 

As to the synchronization, I got hold of one of those thingamajigdomehickies to do this and started with the engine cold. As per the instructions, I connected the tubes and started the motor to allow it to warm up, and I had immediate heat on number 2 cylinder. Could this mean that it was firing and, if so, how come?

 

The readings I got indicated that all the carbs were perfectly synchronized which led to my previous question, which has been answered.

 

I removed this equipment and the next morning started the motor again and I was back to square one. There was no heat on cylinder no 2.

 

After finding the posting on the 'Jason Mod', I decided to try this and did the hook-up.

 

Next morning I started the engine again and had immediate heat on cylinder no 2.

 

I therefore have the situation that if the tube for the pressure sensor is connected I have no heat on cylinder no 2 when I start, and if I connect anything else to this connection, I do.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[dingy]

Try sucking on the hose that goes to the vacuum sensor. Seriously.

 

If you can draw air through it, then it has gone bad. I have one that did this.

 

I don't know why that would cause cylinder not to fire, but it is something to check.

 

Gary

[BreezyCricket]

I always wondered where the saying, 'It sucks', to describe something that is bad or doesn't work, came from.

Edited August 6, 2010 by BreezyCricket

[BreezyCricket]

Still trying and I found this on another posting. I tried to send a message to the author but his postbox is full and my message could not be delivered, so I will try here.

 

As written, "I had the same issue with my #2 carb on my 83. I checked everything I could possibly think of, including the electrical system. It turned out the Screw that held the main nozzle on the slide assy had come off. I opened up the carbs and put it back together and it ran like a champ."

 

To clarify this information he added later, "I was refering to #26 and #28 carb section in parts catalog. Page B6."

 

Does anyone know where I can find this catalog to view what is being referred to, or, at least, a diagram which shows the information.

 

Many Thanks.

[dingy]

 

To clarify this information he added later, "I was refering to #26 and #28 carb section in parts catalog. Page B6."

 

Does anyone know where I can find this catalog to view what is being referred to, or, at least, a diagram which shows the information.

 

Many Thanks.

 

That fairly closely matches up with the 84 parts fiche. Depends what year he had.

 

If you don,t have one, PM me your email address and I will send it to you.

 

Gary

[bkuhr]

Still trying and I found this on another posting. I tried to send a message to the author but his postbox is full and my message could not be delivered, so I will try here.

 

As written, "I had the same issue with my #2 carb on my 83. I checked everything I could possibly think of, including the electrical system. It turned out the Screw that held the main nozzle on the slide assy had come off. I opened up the carbs and put it back together and it ran like a champ."

 

To clarify this information he added later, "I was refering to #26 and #28 carb section in parts catalog. Page B6."

 

Does anyone know where I can find this catalog to view what is being referred to, or, at least, a diagram which shows the information.

 

Many Thanks.

 

http://tinyurl.com/4yt66u

This link matches up, including page B6. Appears to be referring to jet in jet block in float bowl. I had these out during carb rebuild, and do not belive mine could be loose or understand how these may cause flooding, I do seem to recall an issue with o-ring #23. I had incorrectly installed on wrong side of jet, but I think mine are correct now. Maybe I'm still wrong and this is my current problem.

 

Worst issue to pursue this... carbs MUST come out and rack seperated to get float bowl off to even look.

 

Let me know if you persue this, if you find problem here I may have same issue

Thanks, Brian