can we be more visible

[Evan]

My comment is similar to many others. I have been riding now for 45 years. So far, no accident. However, I have had a number of close calls. Every time that has happened, I think about the circumstances that led to the close call and invariably, I got sloppy one way or another with my defencive driving. Just last week, I rode to Mother's and was late returning home - had two close calls because I was preoccupied with a bike problem and being late for dinner rather than focusing on defencive driving.

[dogman]

Being aware while riding and anticipating what others may do is very important to safe riding and driving.

 

Like sailor said. It doesn't matter how big/small, bright/dull, loud/quiet. your bike or car is. Some people are out to lunch while driving.

 

I drive a marked Police Car with lights and sirens on and people still don't see or hear me comming. It is truely unbelievable. The people don't have to be A__ holes, just an ordinary person who is not concentrating on driving, but rather day dreaming of something that has happened to them or about to. A moments inatention can lead to devastation.

 

As the others have said, defensive driving is our number one safety precaution. As others have said, thinking about how you will react to a situation makes you react quicker as opposed to being stunned by it, then having to react. Thinking of your reaction is like practicing which will help in muscle memory just like any sport.

 

All the precautions of lights, vests, horns or loud mufflers may help in some incidents and that is great, but there is nothing that I know of that will get the attention of a person who is not paying attention and zoned out while driving. We just have to be observant and spot those drivers so we can avoid them or the situation they are about to inflict upon us.

 

I love riding and find I can spot the people zoned out easier on my bike than in the car. Maybe it's because I'm looking more for them or maybe it's because I have no barriers or obstructions and can see better. I also have found so far that it has been easier on my bike to avoid some of these potention crashes that I would not have been able to avoid in a car. Some times it's breaking, swerving, accelerating or a combination of any two.

[KB2RWW]

I have had a number of close calls when on my bike. the most memorial one was with a driving instructor, I was about 100' from him, he had his blinker on to turn left and was waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear to complete his turn, I was the last vehicle in the line of oncoming traffic that he had to wait fore. I was 200' behind the last car in front of me when he pulls out in front of me forcing me to the guardrale. I was waring my Britte reflective vest that i ware wen i ride. after all most having an accident I stopped and asked the driver "Didn't you see me?" he said yes then he said something that i will never forget.

he began to tell me it takes a big rig 3x it's length to stop at x amount of speed then he told me a car/SUV only takes 2x it's length to stop at x amount of speed and a bike only takes 1x it's length to stop at x amount of speed there for a car should never pull out in front of a big truck nor should I, then he told me I should never pull out in front of a car/SUV do to there stopping distance but a car/SUV or big truck can pull out in front of me because I CAN STOP FASTER THAN THEM.

If i had a gun there would be one les for the jeenpool.

To think he's teaching this to other drivers scars me.

[naturbar]

To think he's teaching this to other drivers scars me.

i know it was a misspell but the statement is unfortunately true !

[Patrick46]

I've seen a number of riders wearing these blaze orange, yellow, and green vests...which could do a good job. However...most of these people ride fully dressed bikes, and the ONLY part of them you can even see over the tourboxes & fairings is their helmets. And most bike accidents are getting hit from in front, or behind...right where you can't see these vests anyway.

So the only bike they'll really do any good on, is one without any fairing or luggage on it. JMO

[dynodon]

Like others here, I follow the advise that everyone on the road is out to kill me. I don't ride scared to death, that would be no fun, but I "suspect" everyone of doing something stupid I guess is maybe the best way I could describe it.

 

I try to keep out of situations where there is more danger, stay visible, keep speeds moderate, cover the brakes/clutch/throttle etc. Don't ride in the blind spots, get away from scary drivers.

 

I am always LOOKING everywhere! Situational awareness I think they call it. Know what is around you and coming from all directions. Keep your eyes moving.

 

Anticipate as much as possible any bad situation. That car coming to a crossroad where you don't have to stop and they do? Do you trust them to stop? Keep an eye on them. That kind of thing.

 

I used to tow trailers a lot. just civilian stuff, up to 26' and 8000 pounds sometimes. That teaches you to PLAN AHEAD. Bikes stop a lot better, but you still need to plan ahead.

 

Stay away from areas where you know there could be trouble, Detour around high congestion, high crime etc if possible.

 

Basic stuff you should do no matter what you ride/drive.

 

I don't worry about being loud (stock pipes are what I love, can't stand super loud bikes, they annoy me something awful as a homeowner and as a driver/rider), and I figure if I have good lights I am about as well seen as anyone. I have nothing against bright clothing, especially in the rain, but I don't think all black in the day or night is a killer, sometimes bright colors get lost in the mix. Reflective stuff at night is good.

 

Ride aware, don't push limits and you will stay safer, but nothing can protect you from a stupid mistake or a driver out to hurt you if they really want to.

[SilvrT]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned but I believe is something that makes it easier and easier for drivers to a) not see you and b) not hear you (consider those comments from ambulance and police car drivers).

 

The automotive manufacturing industry is making vehicles virtually sound proof, they are adding advanced, surround sound stereo systems, GPS navigation systems, TV's and so on .... with all these "distractions" readilly available that makes the cockpit of a vehicle more like a person's personal "media room", how easy does that make it for drivers to be distracted from their NUMBER ONE responsibility when behind the wheel.

 

Heck, even in my 1996 Dakota, with the windows up and the heater or A/C going full blast it is sometimes hard to hear an emergency vehicle siren until it is quite close. Look at some of these luxury cars nowadays ... 12 speaker stereo's, in-dash GPS and integrated TV..you name it... sheeeesh ...

 

I gotta stop now... I'm making myself angry...

[CMIKE]

I've seen a number of riders wearing these blaze orange, yellow, and green vests...which could do a good job. However...most of these people ride fully dressed bikes, and the ONLY part of them you can even see over the tourboxes & fairings is their helmets. And most bike accidents are getting hit from in front, or behind...right where you can't see these vests anyway.

So the only bike they'll really do any good on, is one without any fairing or luggage on it. JMO

 

You got a good point..but

 

When I first purchased that very loud yellow (or is it Green?) vest...occasionally I would would ride without it. I very distinctly noticed a difference with and without it. Without it...seems folks look you right in the eye (make eye contact) and pull out in front of you in traffic.

They seem to stay put when you make eye contact wtih them wearing the nerd vest. I do not depend on it to hold them to keep them from pulling out but from my experience, I do not have to get on the brakes as much or dodge as many of them. Still got to ride like they are all trying to kill you and you will encounter some sleepers behind the wheel.

I see several folks talking about wearing a reflective jacket...that may work fine just before or after dark...but during the day timeI do not believe it is doing you much good. It is the Color that makes a difference in the daylight hours. White helments have been proven to increase your visiablity. Lighter color jackets help.

[Sailor]

Silver T brought up an excellent point. It has been shown that a person talking on a cell phone is even more likely to be involved in an accident than a drunk driver. Add to that soccer moms running late, men thinking about business deals or mad at the boss and there are not many drivers out there who are not distracted in one way or another. When I am driving I don't usually have the radio on and I don't even talk to the passengers, I drive. Again it comes down to educating the drivers.

[Skid]

I personally do not like the modulator in the headlight, because some drivers will think you're flashing them to "go ahead" in front of you. That is just my opinion. Also after 30 years of riding a bike and 20 years investigating accidents, I've come to the conclusion that in most cases you as the rider can control whether or not you run into another car. Not all cases, but several accidents can be avoided just by slowing down as you approach the intersection and other places where you see a car that can turn in front of you. By at least slowing down, you will greatly reduce the chance of hitting them or at least lessen the impact when you do. I have discussed this with my wife several times as we are riding and she understands why I will slow down at an intersection that I have the green light. Don't ever assume just because you have the right of way that everyone is going to give it to you. Remember we are on bikes, we are at a greater disadvantage in an accident. I'm now not saying that all accidents can be avoided, but I believe several can be by riding defensively.....

[dogman]

Scott, let me address your first paragraph at the start of this thread about another rider killed. It is a horrible waste of life when anyone is killed in or by a vehicle especially a motorcyclist since we all love to ride.

 

These threads are not meant to imply that the rider should have or even been able to avoided the accident. As Skid said some can not be avoided.

[CrazyHorse]

I personally do not like the modulator in the headlight, because some drivers will think you're flashing them to "go ahead" in front of you. That is just my opinion. Also after 30 years of riding a bike and 20 years investigating accidents, I've come to the conclusion that in most cases you as the rider can control whether or not you run into another car. Not all cases, but several accidents can be avoided just by slowing down as you approach the intersection and other places where you see a car that can turn in front of you. By at least slowing down, you will greatly reduce the chance of hitting them or at least lessen the impact when you do. I have discussed this with my wife several times as we are riding and she understands why I will slow down at an intersection that I have the green light. Don't ever assume just because you have the right of way that everyone is going to give it to you. Remember we are on bikes, we are at a greater disadvantage in an accident. I'm now not saying that all accidents can be avoided, but I believe several can be by riding defensively.....

 

 

I have to agree I went away from it too. After GaryN accident where I think the girl involved said she saw a turn blinker if I remember right. I was running my modulator on the driving lights but since took it off not wanting to confuse someone who makes a quick look into thinking Im turning so they pull out in front of me. I would say drive defensively.

[Cougar]

Everone see's a pink helmet ! [ATTACH]38954[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]38955[/ATTACH]

It really helps!

 

[Sailor]

I used to have something called "fish scale". I got it in a sporting goods store. It reflected like fish scale, ie...it changed colours depending on the light hitting it. You could get it in silver/blue, silver/red, etc. I had it on my old helmet and I could see car drivers and passengers looking at me all the time. It really got their attention. I can't find it any more but would like to get some again.

[Dave77459]

I've seen a number of riders wearing these blaze orange, yellow, and green vests...which could do a good job. However...most of these people ride fully dressed bikes, and the ONLY part of them you can even see over the tourboxes & fairings is their helmets. And most bike accidents are getting hit from in front, or behind...right where you can't see these vests anyway.

So the only bike they'll really do any good on, is one without any fairing or luggage on it. JMO

 

I dunno. I wear a reflective yellow/green vest when I commute, and very frequently I get cars pulling over or slowing down as if I am a motor officer. They catch a glimpse of my shoulders and torso and that is all they need. A full view convinces them that I am just another biker, but the fleeting impression the color gives is very effective. I've considered going to a motor officer-style helmet (like this) just to reinforce the impression.

 

Again, when folk make decisions in split seconds, I'd prefer them to suddenly decide to be cautious.

 

My $.02.

 

Dave

[mother]

i wanted to see what you people feel makes your bike more visible and you have some great things you do.

i was dissapointed to hear that our police/ambulance/fire dept lights are not as visible and respected as they would like. i am shocked.

years ago, motorcycles were the only vehicle with lights on while running, and i felt that we did stand out. now with all vehicles using daytime running lights i feel that the motorcycle is not noticed now.

using vests are a great idea and i have seen a lot more riders wearing them these days.

i have seen the pink chaps and they have a wow to them, along with the pink helmet which also stands out.

there was the post from muffinman about using a strobe. is this visible in the daytime?

are there other lights, like neon, flurescent, LEDs, halo lighting, that somebody has tried.

[camos]

I used to have something called "fish scale". I got it in a sporting goods store. It reflected like fish scale, ie...it changed colours depending on the light hitting it. You could get it in silver/blue, silver/red, etc. I had it on my old helmet and I could see car drivers and passengers looking at me all the time. It really got their attention. I can't find it any more but would like to get some again.

Seems like you are referring to the mylar reflective tape used to make/repair fishing flashers. O'Ki Tackle used to have it available separately and they still may offer it.

http://okitackle.com/okistyleflasher.shtml

[KB2RWW]

I have found a nice MSF book that go's into detail what it would like to see happen in the next couple of years. they talk about being more visible.

http://www.msf-usa.org/Downloads/NAMS_print.pdf

 

they go into detail about how most cruiser riders prefer to ware black than contrasting colors. they also talk about bike and helmet Color as well.

 

I know in sum stats it's mandatory to have X-amount of inches of reflective tape on your helmet but seldom do you see anybody do it unless they ride at night.

[Brake Pad]

a few of the boys, rode north 2 decembers ago, for a ride to no-where. this is ashville, NC December 27th ( we froze our butts off)

[warthogcrewchief]

In addition to wearing a reflective/brightly colored vest, I also plan on increasing the headlight, tail light, and turn light output (with LEDs). Since I am currently rebuilding a '89 VR, I have a lot of options on how I plan to do it. As I continue to finish the new paint, I will paint this reflective clear over the trim stripes.

 

http://www.duplicolor.com/products/nitelites.html

[Yammer Dan]

I personally do not like the modulator in the headlight, because some drivers will think you're flashing them to "go ahead" in front of you. That is just my opinion. Also after 30 years of riding a bike and 20 years investigating accidents, I've come to the conclusion that in most cases you as the rider can control whether or not you run into another car. Not all cases, but several accidents can be avoided just by slowing down as you approach the intersection and other places where you see a car that can turn in front of you. By at least slowing down, you will greatly reduce the chance of hitting them or at least lessen the impact when you do. I have discussed this with my wife several times as we are riding and she understands why I will slow down at an intersection that I have the green light. Don't ever assume just because you have the right of way that everyone is going to give it to you. Remember we are on bikes, we are at a greater disadvantage in an accident. I'm now not saying that all accidents can be avoided, but I believe several can be by riding defensively.....

 

 

I've been over that one a couple thousand times in my mind. My accident in 06 I really think if I was to do it over and know he was there I could have missed him .He never turned on his lights until he was in the road about 20 feet from me at the MOST. But without knowing he was coming I was done. I don't think anyone could have reacted any faster than I did on that one. One of those where I just didn't have time to get away from him. If he had let up on gas or hit brake I would have missed him but he just kept coming.

 

The last accident in May I have gone over about as much. I did EVERYTHING right. Just finished my State driver's Training course. Did everything I was supposed to do and he lies and looks like he is going to get away with it. I don't understand it another reason I HATE Insurance Companies. The guy lies and they let him walk. The Deputy does almost nothing. I have pics that I think will prove what I say but insurance claims no. Lawyers won't talk to you if they don't have big bucks they can grab. Retiment was supposed to be good but after these two financially it SUCKS. OK I'll quit whining. Just had to say it and probally didn't make it understandable anyway.

[Skid]

"I'm now not saying that all accidents can be avoided"

 

I agree Dan, ALL accidents can not avoided. The difficults areas is when someone pulls out at some place other than a driveway, or a intersection. A place other than you would expect someone to cross your path. The key word is "expect". Most accidents occurr at intersections, where traffic crosses paths. For this reason even if they may not have the right of way at the time, you expect they could cross........ Both of your accidents were at places you didn't expect some idiot to come into your lane.

[Yammer Dan]

Thanks Buddy. Guess its a tender spot. The first one could have been missed if I were a professional rider AND knew he was coming. They did place blame on him just didn't and couldn't pay what wasn't there.

This last one is the one that really gets me. I did EVERYTHING right. No place to go but over in his lane. Did Not do that per my training. Got on brakes enough to save his (and mine) life. He admitted fault to me and I'm pretty sure to the Deputy. Was trying to start car and leave til I got him out of car. He WAS drunk. I got him into ambulance and was sure he would get blood work done and I would be in clear on this one. I hopped around on foot with bones trying to come out the top of it til I made sure everything was right. When I got into my ambulance (they wouldn't put us in same one) the Deputy let him get out and his buddies took him home. He showed up the next day and tried to pick up his car. Still drunk and told them he had no insurance. He does have insurance but they won't tell me what. He changed story and claims I crossed into his lane and hit him. I have my pics but not sure where to go. I just want one minute alone with him!!!

[loehring]

I have had a number of close calls when on my bike. the most memorial one was with a driving instructor, I was about 100' from him, he had his blinker on to turn left and was waiting for the oncoming traffic to clear to complete his turn, I was the last vehicle in the line of oncoming traffic that he had to wait fore. I was 200' behind the last car in front of me when he pulls out in front of me forcing me to the guardrale. I was waring my Britte reflective vest that i ware wen i ride. after all most having an accident I stopped and asked the driver "Didn't you see me?" he said yes then he said something that i will never forget.

he began to tell me it takes a big rig 3x it's length to stop at x amount of speed then he told me a car/SUV only takes 2x it's length to stop at x amount of speed and a bike only takes 1x it's length to stop at x amount of speed there for a car should never pull out in front of a big truck nor should I, then he told me I should never pull out in front of a car/SUV do to there stopping distance but a car/SUV or big truck can pull out in front of me because I CAN STOP FASTER THAN THEM.

If i had a gun there would be one les for the jeenpool.

To think he's teaching this to other drivers scars me.

You're a more patient man than I am. I think you should have conducted another scientific test. It takes you 1.5 seconds to leave the bike, how long does it take for him to come through the window? Then, how long does it take him to find his keys after you throw them as far as you can? (But then I do tend to "snap" at times)

[Yammer Dan]

You're a more patient man than I am. I think you should have conducted another scientific test. It takes you 1.5 seconds to leave the bike, how long does it take for him to come through the window? Then, how long does it take him to find his keys after you throw them as far as you can? (But then I do tend to "snap" at times)

 

 

I'll go with that one is that case. It would have been a whup or get whupped case and I CHEAT!!