Fuel injected 1st Gen...

[Kartain]

First let me say howdy again to everyone. I used to frequent these boards 10 or so years ago and learned a lot from ya'll on my newly aquired Royale.

 

My question is: Has anyone heard or tried using a Megasquirt system on one of these bikes and putting fuel injection on it? I was reading over at http://www.megamanual.com/forums.htm and run across a post about someone that had one on theirs while leaving the carbs on and could be coverted back to a carb system with little to no major mods. Very tempted to give it a try but this being a single case on the Megasquirt boards I'd like to know if more are out there.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Kartain

[BigBoyinMS]

Thanks for posting this! I've been looking for something like this for a different project.

 

By the way... I found this while browsing around some links from that site...

The one on the right is based on a VMax.

http://www.roadstercycle.com/images/DSC01465.JPG

[a1bummer]

Have you seen these?

http://www.wildbros.com/EFI.html

Expensive, but they sure do look nice. I don't think that if I put that kind of dough into my bike for that, that I'd be to get that for the whole bike.

[Squeeze]

Those EFI's from Wild Bros. are not only nice but also add some serious Power ...

 

Megasquirt is a "cheap Way" to get a decent Computer, only downside is you'll have to program it from scratch, that's very Time consuming and there are a Lot of Possiblities to screw Things up, either momentary or forever.

[Kartain]

Ok, I'll add what knowledge I have of fuel injection into this mix. IF a fuel injection system is tuned CORRECTLY there is no need to have a second or even third tune for horsepower vs fuel economy. If lambda (air/fuel ratio) is set properly you are getting the most efficient burn possible and to richen or lean out an engine from perfect lambda (which is purt near impossible) you are decreasing the efficiency of the engine and therefore decreasing horsepower and economy. You CAN however lean out an engine enough to get better economy but you highly risk burning up your engine. All, and I mean all automobiles are set to the rich side of lambda from the factory to prevent the normal average consumer from burning up their engines due to a lean condition. So dispite what Wild Brothers claims, if you tune correctly you don't deviate from a correct tune to get economy or horsepower.

 

Just in case you haven't figured it out, yes I'm a automotive mechanic/shop owner with around 37 years of experience. I bleed diesel and sweat gasoline. It just burns me to see a claim as that on Wild Brothers about tunes. To me claims like that are just preying on the less knowledgable in the area of air/fuel ratios and engine performance. Then again I may be totally wrong.

[RandyR]

no reason to limit this discussion to first gens.....

[Carbon_One]

Like many here I would love to have EFI on the bike but with the costs involved to convert over it's just plain not cost effective for us average riders. Then again carbs are fairly simple and other then keeping them clean very little goes wrong with them. I do like reading & knowing that there are folks who do go that extra step trying to improve on these bikes.

Larry

[Kartain]

Sorry Sir, didn't want to cross post. Would invite anyone to discuss the subject of converting carb to injected. With more eyes comes knowledge... flames also, but we can handle that. Tell me a good spot to get this discussion going for a larger audience and I'm all for it.

 

As for cost... for the price of 4 slides you'd almost cover the cost of a Megasquirt system with the needed sensors, injectors, and pump. It's the time required to get it all installed and tuned that would be the worst. Unless of course you were paying someone to do it for you. Then the cost would be way higher.

[Tom]

  Kartain said:

Sorry Sir, didn't want to cross post. Would invite anyone to discuss the subject of converting carb to injected. With more eyes comes knowledge... flames also, but we can handle that. Tell me a good spot to get this discussion going for a larger audience and I'm all for it.

 

As for cost... for the price of 4 slides you'd almost cover the cost of a Megasquirt system with the needed sensors, injectors, and pump. It's the time required to get it all installed and tuned that would be the worst. Unless of course you were paying someone to do it for you. Then the cost would be way higher.

Its all good...Most of us read all and gain knowledge from all...Hope you join and frequent the site...Good to have more insight ALWAYS! Tom

[Squeeze]

  Kartain said:

Ok, I'll add what knowledge I have of fuel injection into this mix. IF a fuel injection system is tuned CORRECTLY there is no need to have a second or even third tune for horsepower vs fuel economy. If lambda (air/fuel ratio) is set properly you are getting the most efficient burn possible and to richen or lean out an engine from perfect lambda (which is purt near impossible) you are decreasing the efficiency of the engine and therefore decreasing horsepower and economy. You CAN however lean out an engine enough to get better economy but you highly risk burning up your engine. All, and I mean all automobiles are set to the rich side of lambda from the factory to prevent the normal average consumer from burning up their engines due to a lean condition. So dispite what Wild Brothers claims, if you tune correctly you don't deviate from a correct tune to get economy or horsepower.

 

Just in case you haven't figured it out, yes I'm a automotive mechanic/shop owner with around 37 years of experience. I bleed diesel and sweat gasoline. It just burns me to see a claim as that on Wild Brothers about tunes. To me claims like that are just preying on the less knowledgable in the area of air/fuel ratios and engine performance. Then again I may be totally wrong.

 

How much of these Megasquirt Systems have you adapted to Vehicles ?

 

What exactly is your Opinion in "setting A/F Ratio correctly" ? 14.7 ? 17 ? 13 ?

[RandyR]

  Squeeze said:

How much of these Megasquirt Systems have you adapted to Vehicles ?

 

What exactly is your Opinion in "setting A/F Ratio correctly" ? 14.7 ? 17 ? 13 ?

 

Having a sensor in the exhaust to tell how well the fuel is being burned is something a good computer would need, I think.

[Kartain]

  Squeeze said:

How much of these Megasquirt Systems have you adapted to Vehicles ?

 

What exactly is your Opinion in "setting A/F Ratio correctly" ? 14.7 ? 17 ? 13 ?

 

I have not adapted a Megasquirt system to anything nor am I endorsing their product. I merely saw a post on their site where someone claimed to have adapted one to a Royale. This brought me to question if anyone on this site had completed or seen one adapted before since I know from previously having frequented this site that there are a lot of people that post here from all over the world that have Royale and V-Max bikes.

 

As far as A/F ratio, I can only draw from what I have read and have used with performance non-street legal cars. 14.7 to 1 in theory is the optimal air to fuel mixture which is what the auto industry is attempting to attain without running into the possibility of lean conditions which they would have to warranty if that problem arose. In fact Wikepedia has a good explanation of lambda at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio that you can read instead of my futal attempt at trying to explain it.

 

As RandyR stated, yes an O2 sensor with a good computer and MAF sensors is how to attain the correct ratio. The use of a wide band O2 makes for a quicker and more stable A/F mixture.