86 VR 2nd Gear Indicator problem

[Zfrebird4]

I am now on my SECOND 86 VR, because I know that bike via 89,000 miles, at my YOUNG age of 70 getting another one just made sense! \

 

BOTH have had the second gear indicator light not working. The first bike was brand new. and the indicator worked for awhile.

 

It's no big problem to me, and thanks to your posts on the second gear I will not be gentle with my second gear. Sounds like on the 86 it was well solved.

 

Any wisdom on the light? Doubt I'll put much money out for the correction though. Just a question. Thanks to all, and all ride safe.

 

Jack Tharp

Fort Collins, CO

Zfrebird4

[Evan]

I can't help you with the indicator light problem but I would like to wish you many more enjoyable miles with your new VR. After 45 years of riding, I purchsaed earlier this year my 88 VR and now, like you, I would replace it with another if need be rather than something else.

[Dano]

Could be the gear indicator switch, unfortunaley it's located deep on the left side behing the clutch slave cylinder. PIA to get to. You might be able to check voltage at the connector, check out the schematic for 1st gens they've got posted now.

[Yammer Dan]

If someone has had the slave cylinder out they could have pinched a wire in there and it will play with gear indicator lights. Don't ask me how I know this...

[dingy]

Jack,

 

Here are some photos of gear position indicator switch

 

The switch is a path to ground that is made via the shift cam drum rotating a contact point as each gear is selected.

 

Pink wire on switch is for 2nd gear per schematic.

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/shiftswfront.jpg

 

Contact side of switch.

 

Rectangular contact is Neutral.

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/shiftswback.jpg

 

Terminal side of switch

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/shiftswpos.jpg

 

View of switch installed.

 

This is between stator cover and middle drive gear.

 

Middle Drive cover and stator cover has been removed.

 

Terminals have silicon over them for protection.

 

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/smallshiftpin.jpg

 

Switch is removed from bike in this picture.

 

Gear position selector pin at eight o'clock position.

 

Bike is in neutral in this picture

 

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/indicatorpin.jpg

 

View from parts file of transmission shift cam

 

#10 is spring

 

#11 in contact point

Edited June 12, 2011 by dingy
Added picture of contact point in bike

[a1bummer]

I've had a similar problem for almost two years now. In neutral, the green light indicates as such, but the display says it's in 4th. In any gear the display says it's in 4th except when in 5th. Then the display indicates correctly. So the display always says I'm in 4th except when I'm in 5th. I've checked the switch that is mentioned in previous posts two different way. Both show the switch is in good working order. All tests were done with the switch unplugged.

 

First, since that switch grounds one wire when in one gear, I used an ohm meter to check each wire as I shifted through each gear to check for a closed circuit.

 

Second, I used a test light. I clamped the light to the positive battery terminal and checked each wire as I shifted into each gear. When the circuit closes, the light comes on.

 

After ruling out the switch as the culprit, I then tried grounding each wire going up to the display. When I ground out the neutral wire the green light comes on but the display says 4th. When I ground out the 5th gear wire, the display says it's in 5th. All other wires, the display says it's in 4th.

 

When I get ambitious I'll start looking for shorts leading up to or into the display panel. But my guess it's in the display panel itself. Anybody have a display panel for an 84 they want to part with cheap?

 

I just figured I would mention my issue so you might try using the same tests to try and track down your problem.

[Guest Swifty]

Excellent post, Dingy.

[Zfrebird4]

I suspect that's the problem. Mine sounds easier to live with that the one presented to the post. I KNOW I am in 2nd gear, but the display doesn't show me the second. Not sure it's worth the bother or perhaps the expense; no problems with the other displays, including the neutral light!

 

Thanks to all for posting.

 

And you know when I mount my 86 VR (my second one, identical, saddly different color, brown on light tan) I am younger than I was when I first mounted my first 86 VR (Ursula Black on Gold). I now have about 170,000 miles in riding since I started in 1986 , .... and I love it!

 

And by the way, I tried SEAFOAM (see the posts on this; thanks to all for those) and my 86 was like new. Wow what zip, as all the guys said it would have. Try some and when you come to CO I'll try to keep up with you at my 70 with two new knees and on my 86 VR; BETTING I can keep up with ALL of you guys and gals now! LOL. Ride safe, happy and long!

 

 

 

JackZ

[camos]

How much needs to be disassembled to be able to R/R the switch?

 

I removed the aft cover and have spent an hour or more cleaning that gunked up area with naphtha and a toothbrush before I could actually identify the switch. I think I could remove the switch as it sits but doubt being able to reinstall it.

 

Gary, your pix of the switch in position are very misleading. First everything is so unbelievably clean and second, mine has to be 3 or 4 times deeper than your pic seems to indicate. Did you take them with a telephoto lens?

 

By the way, thanks a bunch for the pix and other info you have posted on this fix. They have been very helpful and will be more so once I figure out how to get at that switch.

[dingy]

I added 2 more thumbnail pictures to my first post to try to give a little better depth feeling. The one with the case split, the pocket is straight in from where the bottle of loctite is setting.

 

All these pictures are with a normal style click & shoot digital camera.

 

Once you get the three screws out, the switch will pop out very easily. There is about a 1/4" lip that engages with the block.

 

It can only go back in one way and get all three screws to engage. The shift cam pin will not come apart at this point. There is a screw in the end holding it together. I had to heat this screw up to get it loose, think it had red loctite on it.

 

Previous pictures were not clean. The very last one I added of the block split is clean.

 

Gary

[Condor]

It could be a burned out neutral blub......

[camos]

OK, the telephoto comment was tongue-in-cheek but those pix show way more apart than mine is. Compared to the corruption in the crevasse from Hell where my switch is mounted yours is as pristine as a bride dressed in white.

 

So far I have only taken off the aft cover. It looks like the internal shift rod will make it difficult to get the switch out, or at least in without losing the three mounting screws more than once.

 

With the stator cover off there would be much more elbow room to work. Unfortunately I did not order a gasket for that and I don't know how much trouble I can get into by removing it. The engine oil was not drained and I laid the bike down on the crash guards to open it up. So far that seems to be working OK but I'm not sure it would be adequate if the other cover were removed.

 

I was able to put a screwdriver on each of the three mounting screws and loosened them. They weren't very tight. Well, I suppose I could remove the switch as it is and worry about the difficulty of getting it back together when the time comes.

 

I thought red loctite was not appropriate for plastic.

[camos]

It could be a burned out neutral blub......

The neutral light comes on and works properly until the engine gets up to temp then goes out. At that point putting the side stand down will kill the engine. I'm just assuming the problem is with the switch.

[dingy]

Does neutral light go out when motor warms up?

 

The loctite was in reference to the pin in the end of the shift cam. (See last picture in this post) Do not use loctite where the screw will be threaded into a plastic part. In the case of this switch, loctite probably isn't needed. First, you need clean dry screw holes for loctite to work.

 

I really don't think pulling the stator cover is going to help a lot. I just looked at mine and it will very little.

 

Attached are a few more pictures I just took.

 

1st one, switch is just visible over blue cable/side stand switch boot. It is painted black in these pictures. You can see the difference in the stator cover to the left of picture. It is a glossy, powder coated black, the block is a flat black. Your not going to gain much by removing stator.

 

2nd picture shows view up from bottom. The exhaust is not on in this picture, so you won't have this access to it. It just shows orientation.

 

3rd picture shows a straight in view. It isn't real easy to get it in there, but it is doable. When you put screws in, you can use a piece of tape to hold them to the phillips tip to get them started. The switch plate will snap into place, it may need some rotational tweaking.

 

Last picture shows the shift cam unit out of the block. All you will see is the very top surface with the brass 'button' sticking out. This picture shows a brand new button in place. Yours will be worn down some almost for sure. If it real bad compared to this, it should be replaced also. This is the screw I mentioned earlier that needed heat to loosen, and should be loctited back in. It is a torx head screw.

 

Gary

 

[camos]

Does neutral light go out when motor warms up?

Yes that is the problem that needs to be fixed. Actually, not only does the neutral light go out but the gear indicators go out as well.

 

The loctite was in reference to the pin in the end of the shift cam. (See last picture in this post) Do not use loctite where the screw will be threaded into a plastic part.

 

I really don't think pulling the stator cover is going to help a lot. I just looked at mine and it will very little.

Just as well. What is in the way the most is the clutch line fitting and secondly the shift shaft.

3rd picture shows a straight in view. It isn't real easy to get it in there, but it is doable. When you put screws in, you can use a piece of tape to hold them to the phillips tip to get them started. The switch plate will snap into place, it may need some rotational tweaking.

Yes, it didn't want to pull out but after rotating it came easy.

Last picture shows the shift cam unit out of the block. All you will see is the very top surface with the brass 'button' sticking out. This picture shows a brand new button in place. Yours will be worn down some almost for sure. If it real bad compared to this, it should be replaced also.

The pin is definitely worn, close to but not quite a 1/8" flat, probably 3/32". I'll see if I can get a new one, can't be that expensive.

This is the screw I mentioned earlier that needed heat to loosen, and should be loctited back in. It is a torx head screw.

Mine is a Phillips head and was probably not loctited as it came out fairly easily. I did not pull the spring out of the hole to look at it but it seems to be springy if that means anything.

 

What exactly need to be done to fix whatever is wrong here?

The whole area was very grungy looking, the pin is worn but probably not excessively and one of the wires has the shrink coming off at the ring connector. That wire did not appear to be touching anything it shouldn't but with the amount of crud in the area it would not be surprising if a short did develop. Perhaps that is why it quit after warming up.

[dingy]

All of these are grounded connections, switch puts a ground signal to CMU.

 

If you are going to replace the pin, replace the spring. One I just rebuilt that was in picture, the old spring was noticeably shorter than the new one. You might get by, in a half ass manner but, drivable, if you were to clean everything and stretch the spring a little bit so as to put more pressure on pin.

 

Prices below are from partshark.com, I don't know what options you have in Canada.

 

Spring is P/N 90501-06022-00 $1.82 US

 

Pin is P/N 4UN-18542-00-00 $2.16 US

 

Switch O-ring P/N 93210-29196-00 $2.38

 

Switch is probably reusable, if it is not grooved much. Fix wires as needed.

 

Gary

[Keemez]

Fix wires as needed. Gary

 

 

When I had my gear pos switch off recently for cleaning & etc two of the wires pulled off the terminals with ease. I had to solder them back together- I suspect this is a weak area.

[camos]

All of these are grounded connections, switch puts a ground signal to CMU.

Do you think heating up would cause the oily crud around the switch to become more conductive? The LCD panel on the CMU is not working so to test the switch circuit continuity would it be best to use an ohmmeter with one lead at the plug end and the other on the case?

 

If you are going to replace the pin, replace the spring. One I just rebuilt that was in picture, the old spring was noticeably shorter than the new one. You might get by, in a half ass manner but, drivable, if you were to clean everything and stretch the spring a little bit so as to put more pressure on pin.

Indeed, this little project has taken too much time and effort to not spend a couple of dollars more on a new spring and contact. In one of the pix in your earlier thread you show the replaced switch covered in silicon. Did that stand up to the hot oil treatment for a while? Do you still think it is worth doing?

 

Prices below are from partshark.com, I don't know what options you have in Canada.

 

Spring is P/N 90501-06022-00 $1.82 US

 

Pin is P/N 4UN-18542-00-00 $2.16 US

 

Switch O-ring P/N 93210-29196-00 $2.38

 

Switch is probably reusable, if it is not grooved much. Fix wires as needed.

I don't remember exactly but the prices you have are about what they are at the local dealer. The contacts don't seem to be grooved at all.

When I had my gear pos switch off recently for cleaning & etc two of the wires pulled off the terminals with ease. I had to solder them back together- I suspect this is a weak area.

The wires on mine seem to be well connected and the only thing I can see that doesn't look good is the heat shrink on one of the wires has come about 3/4 off. Considering the terminal screws are open to the environment that does not seem like a serious flaw. When that area heats up I would think the brass contact pin would get longer and provide a better connection. Perhaps the spring loses it's strength when heated.