BigBoyinMS Posted October 19, 2009 #1 Posted October 19, 2009 (I know some here have Harley's and I have 30+ years on them myself so don't take too much offense!) I just read ediddy's thread about his trip to the H-D dealer and I got to thinking; why do Harley people act like they do? And I finally figured it out. I found this checklist online. At the bottom of the page is the title of the paper it came from. Some points don't fit but most do... The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s). The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth). The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity). The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities). The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members. The group is preoccupied with making money. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups (Cults)- Revised Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.[/b]
bongobobny Posted October 19, 2009 #2 Posted October 19, 2009 Hmmmm, sounds like every typical politician to me...
SilvrT Posted October 19, 2009 #3 Posted October 19, 2009 I'm not a Harley rider but I gotta tell ya, I sure have this almost uncontrollable urge to stir this pot up! .....but I won't
Eck Posted October 19, 2009 #4 Posted October 19, 2009 You better watch what you say about Squidley now....
friesman Posted October 19, 2009 #5 Posted October 19, 2009 I think we gotta stop this everyone against Harley attitude, in my view we are as bad as the Harley guys in a lot of ways. One of the guys in here that I consider a friend has ended his membership here in VR yesterday because of the incessant anti Harley crap. As much as the Harley guys bug us sometimes, I think we have to start checking out attitudes a bit. We like to say that we welcome all brands in here, but do we really practise what we preach? I think not. I can see where it would wear thin real quick and I think if you had a new ride, hanging out in here with everyone slagging your pride and joy all the time. :bang head: OK I am now getting off my soapbox, sorry to vent but i needed to get it off my chest. Brian
SilvrT Posted October 19, 2009 #6 Posted October 19, 2009 I think we gotta stop this everyone against Harley attitude, in my view we are as bad as the Harley guys in a lot of ways. One of the guys in here that I consider a friend has ended his membership here in VR yesterday because of the incessant anti Harley crap. As much as the Harley guys bug us sometimes, I think we have to start checking out attitudes a bit. We like to say that we welcome all brands in here, but do we really practise what we preach? I think not. I can see where it would wear thin real quick and I think if you had a new ride, hanging out in here with everyone slagging your pride and joy all the time. :bang head: OK I am now getting off my soapbox, sorry to vent but i needed to get it off my chest. Brian THANK YOU Brian .... you're much more diplomatic than I would have been had I posted what I originally typed.
Eck Posted October 19, 2009 #7 Posted October 19, 2009 [quote=friesman1;399084 I think we gotta stop this everyone against Harley attitude, in my view we are as bad as the Harley guys in a lot of ways. One of the guys in here that I consider a friend has ended his membership here in VR yesterday because of the incessant anti Harley crap. As much as the Harley guys bug us sometimes, I think we have to start checking out attitudes a bit. We like to say that we welcome all brands in here, but do we really practise what we preach? I think not. I can see where it would wear thin real quick and I think if you had a new ride, hanging out in here with everyone slagging your pride and joy all the time. :bang head: OK I am now getting off my soapbox, sorry to vent but i needed to get it off my chest. Brian Brian, I hear what your saying my friend and you are right... to a point. In my case as you might know as most everyone else knows, I now ride a GW. I am teased at every M&E, and rally we have, and I a;so read posts where some "jokingly" talk about the GW riders as well as Harley riders. Some GW riders do have additudes such as being above or better then everyone else as BMW riders have thier ways, and Harley riders have thier ways.. heck we all have our ways and ideas and our special rides that we like. I truley dont care what a man or woman rides.. I dont think anyone here really cares what anyone else rides, but we all come face to face with that one butt hole once in a while and feel like getting it off our chest. I am certain that when someone says, I met this jerk riding a GW and he ...blah, blah, blah..,,,that doesnt mean he is talking about every GW rider or any VR member on this site.. it is a phrase used in common talk between riders. I have met and ride with some very wonderful people who own Harleys and many other makes, but if I make a comment about a Harley rider it is because I saw or met some Harley jerk on one. That dont mean all Harley riders are jerks. I am really sorry your friend took it to heart and left the VR site, but we all joke here at one another and it should never be taken to heart..not all Harley riders fall into the same category as well as all Venture riders are not in the same category... I personally will refrain from mentioning anything about Harley riders or any other type bike rider to help support your concern / posting my friend.
Old Grey Wolf Posted October 19, 2009 #8 Posted October 19, 2009 As a former "Harley Guy" and a former Beezer ( BSA) and a former Honda Guy etc. etc. and now a Venture rider, I think that going riding is far more important than what is between your legs (no pun intended)! I ride with a bunch of guys that have Harley's, Goldwings ( my "wingnuts:2133:), Kawasaki's and an old Ducatti with a side car, and our motto is " An Eating Club with a Riding Disorder" Seems that some of us can get along.
04Midnight Posted October 19, 2009 #9 Posted October 19, 2009 All I can say about the Harley riders is... THEY STARTED IT!
friesman Posted October 19, 2009 #10 Posted October 19, 2009 All I can say about the Harley riders is... THEY STARTED IT! That might be,,,,,,but it dont make it right......... Brian
Yama Mama Posted October 19, 2009 #11 Posted October 19, 2009 :smile5:This of course, has all been said before. I agree with what has been said. I personally agree that it should be about motorcycle riding no matter what you ride. Yes and there are nice folks on every type of bike and there are the other rude ones too. I personally love to look at all bikes. It is true that Harley folks have their own way about them, so let them be and enjoy their thing. We should just ignore it. It is not going to change any time soon. And what Eck said is very true too. I guess the point is, letting it irritate us is not going to change it. So I suppose just ignore them and enjoy your ride.
distancerider Posted October 20, 2009 #12 Posted October 20, 2009 This beat to death horse is starting to smell. Let it go.
MasterGuns Posted October 20, 2009 #13 Posted October 20, 2009 I tried pretty hard to post something concerning the subject of this thread but decided I'd rather go ride my Ultra. See ya.
Yammer Dan Posted October 20, 2009 #14 Posted October 20, 2009 And it ain't even Winter yet!!! Sorry didn't mean to use that word!! We are not picking on all Riders when we do this just the ones like the group of Hardley riders in my area that won't even speak to you but will talk crap about Rice Burners in you presence to each other. But lay it out for them and tell them to "Bring It" and there are No Takers. I have riden Harley's, Nortons, Kaws, Motto Guzzies. Bridgestones, Hondas and a few others I can't remember but never caught that attitude. Its not about WHAT you ride!!
mraf Posted October 20, 2009 #15 Posted October 20, 2009 Iiiii LOVE LITTLE BABY DUCKS OLD PICKUP TRUCKS SLEEP WITHOUT DREAMS MY VENTURE WHEN IT SCREAMS AND Iiiiii LOVE HARLEYS TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!:rotfl:
Freebird Posted October 20, 2009 #16 Posted October 20, 2009 I'm glad that this was brought up. I got the email from the member yesterday asking me to delete his profile here. I've had a few such requests over the years and I know that people come and people go but this was an active member with almost 1200 posts here. He was very kind and gracious in his request and told me that he has tried to have thick skin but that it was just really getting to him lately. He pointed out a number of threads that started with nothing to do with Harleys and ended up as Harley bashing threads. I tried to talk him out of leaving but though he was again very nice about it, he said that it was just time for him to go. It really bothered me folks. The bottom line is, he is exactly right. I cringe every time I see another Harley bashing thread start. I really hate making more rules here and so have pretty much just let them go. It's hard enough trying to enforce the PG rating and no politics. It is happening way too often though. I've never made my feelings about the Harley or the riders a secret. I've come close several times to buying an Ultra and the only reason I don't own one is the simple fact that I can't afford one. That is not saying that I would part with my RSV, I love it also. I will also tell you that I've known and ridden with many Harley riders and have never had an issue with a single one of them about what I ride. Yes, there are some out there with the attitude but I've probably met just as many on other brands. The fact is, Good people are good people, regardless of what they choose to ride. Folks with attitudes will have those attitudes whatever they choose to ride also. I know that we have lost more than one member due to this issue and I sincerely wish that it would stop. Good natured teasing has always been welcome here and always will be but some of this has gone far beyond good natured teasing.
saddlebum Posted October 20, 2009 #18 Posted October 20, 2009 I don't think we tend to bash Harley's as much as we just tease, largely because there is a small number of Harley riders that have that I am better than you attitude because they ride a Harley, and wether we want to admit it or not, we let it get to us. In truth I find most Harley riders arre no better or worse than us and most do wave back when you wave at them. Lets not forget 1st Gen owner's And 2nd gen owners poke fun at each other all the time. I am sorry that a member felt he had to leave because of this, after all the opening page to this site doe's say all are welcome, and maybe we should prove it by not painting certian brand rider's with the same brush. Yeh I know I am guilty too but having a member quit because of it has given me cause to think. As riders we should bond together and maybe apply our efforts to issues that affect all riders. Friesman1 tell your friend, that I for one appologize if anything I posted, offended him and hope he will give us another chance.
Yammer Dan Posted October 20, 2009 #19 Posted October 20, 2009 I don't think we tend to bash Harley's as much as we just tease, largely because there is a small number of Harley riders that have that I am better than you attitude because they ride a Harley, and wether we want to admit it or not, we let it get to us. In truth I find most Harley riders arre no better or worse than us and most do wave back when you wave at them. Lets not forget 1st Gen owner's And 2nd gen owners poke fun at each other all the time. I am sorry that a member felt he had to leave because of this, after all the opening page to this site doe's say all are welcome, and maybe we should prove it by not painting certian brand rider's with the same brush. Yeh I know I am guilty too but having a member quit because of it has given me cause to think. As riders we should bond together and maybe apply our efforts to issues that affect all riders. Friesman1 tell your friend, that I for one appologize if anything I posted, offended him and hope he will give us another chance. I'll 2nd that one.
CMIKE Posted October 20, 2009 #20 Posted October 20, 2009 I do not see nothing that was not good nature teasing. I guess if I was treated like a Human being, just like my buddy who owns a differnt brand of bike that I rode most of the miles that are now on my bike with...(They talk to him all day long and not even a nod toward me that I exsisted.) I guess if I was not asked to park my bike across the parking lot by that different brands dealership... (If you ride with a guy that rides a different brand you will be stopping at many of those different brand dealerships.) I guess If before I purchase my bike I had not listen to some of the wildest BS from the dealers of that different brand...(I was doing research to see if I wanted to buy one from that different brand...and really thought I wanted one from that different brand...and my wife loved that different brand...cause it was a different brand...the only till she road on the back of one for a 1/2 day and her foot almost caught fire... did she reconsider) I never follow the majority anyway so...what do you expect. I did not buy the different brand. I could afford it at the time cause I had saved my money a long time. I guess if I had not been to the MSF school put on by that different brand and listen to all that BS sales pitch for the majority of the class that I paid too much for... ( I went mainly to get my boy some training so he could get his bike endorsement) I could be totally neutral on the subject... None of this so called bashing was directed at any person directly... especially anybody that belongs to this site. It mostly was from our experience from the different brand riders...a small few but bad apples in my book. I will ride with anybody just as long as we get to ride...stop to help anybody, offer anybody a place to sleep if they need one and pay for a tank of gas or a meal if they need some help...no matter what they RIDE. I think everybody here would do the same thing cause we are all bound by a common bond called a motorcycle. Big ones, small ones, different brand one, pretty ones, ugly ones and even some Yamaha's. That bond is stronger than most of us really want to admit...but it exsist in every one of us. We would not do nothing to hurt each other intentionally. If somebody got thier feelings hurt...it was a misunderstanding. Anybody ever had problems at any of the M&E's in the past? I suspect not cause we have that bond. That is my 2 cents for what it is worth.
Eck Posted October 20, 2009 #21 Posted October 20, 2009 Quote from a wise man (saddlebum), posted above: maybe we should prove it by not painting certain brand rider's with the same brush. Yeh I know I am guilty too but having a member quit because of it has given me cause to think. As riders we should bond together and maybe apply our efforts to issues that affect all riders. I'm in.......
Yammer Dan Posted October 20, 2009 #22 Posted October 20, 2009 I do not see nothing that was not good nature teasing. I guess if I was treated like a Human being, just like my buddy who owns a differnt brand of bike that I rode most of the miles that are now on my bike with...(They talk to him all day long and not even a nod toward me that I exsisted.) I guess if I was not asked to park my bike across the parking lot by that different brands dealership... (If you ride with a guy that rides a different brand you will be stopping at many of those different brand dealerships.) I guess If before I purchase my bike I had not listen to some of the wildest BS from the dealers of that different brand...(I was doing research to see if I wanted to buy one from that different brand...and really thought I wanted one from that different brand...and my wife loved that different brand...cause it was a different brand...the only till she road on the back of one for a 1/2 day and her foot almost caught fire... did she reconsider) I never follow the majority anyway so...what do you expect. I did not buy the different brand. I could afford it at the time cause I had saved my money a long time. I guess if I had not been to the MSF school put on by that different brand and listen to all that BS sales pitch for the majority of the class that I paid too much for... ( I went mainly to get my boy some training so he could get his bike endorsement) I could be totally neutral on the subject... None of this so called bashing was directed at any person directly... especially anybody that belongs to this site. It mostly was from our experience from the different brand riders...a small few but bad apples in my book. I will ride with anybody just as long as we get to ride...stop to help anybody, offer anybody a place to sleep if they need one and pay for a tank of gas or a meal if they need some help...no matter what they RIDE. I think everybody here would do the same thing cause we are all bound by a common bond called a motorcycle. Big ones, small ones, different brand one, pretty ones, ugly ones and even some Yamaha's. That bond is stronger than most of us really want to admit...but it exsist in every one of us. We would not do nothing to hurt each other intentionally. If somebody got thier feelings hurt...it was a misunderstanding. Anybody ever had problems at any of the M&E's in the past? I suspect not cause we have that bond. That is my 2 cents for what it is worth. I think that one is worth at least 4 cents!!
gunboat Posted October 20, 2009 #23 Posted October 20, 2009 I tried pretty hard to post something concerning the subject of this thread but decided I'd rather go ride my Ultra. See ya. herb what's the matter the 1'st gen won't start? don c.
KarlS Posted October 20, 2009 #24 Posted October 20, 2009 Sorry to say it but even the posts that start out as something that 1 Harley rider did soon turns out to "sound" like an attack on all Harley riders. Wish your friend word reconsider and come back.
BigBoyinMS Posted October 20, 2009 Author #25 Posted October 20, 2009 Well, I just got home and logged on and saw what I inadvertently started. I was hoping everyone (including the H-D riders) would realize that I was making fun of those that DO take it so seriously and DO have the attitude that Harley's are to be worshiped and not those that are happy with whatever a person rides. I wasn't H-D bashing at all but you could call it "Harley lemonade drinker" bashing if you want. But just in fun. And I think some folks see the word "Harley" in a non-Harley forum and are immediately on the defensive. Lighten-up people! I rode H-D's for years and would still love to have a Shovel! But I don't and never did have the attitude that it was the only brand that should be allowed on the planet; it was just the only one for ME at the time. Anyway, I hope I haven't PO'ed anyone TOO much with my (so called) humor. And if I did... just don't diss my car tire!
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