Clutch Lever Free Play

[MasterGuns]

Ok, I am very slowly eliminating operations that could have a detrimental effect on shifting. I am now interested in the amount of free play of the clutch lever. From dead center of the ball at full extension, can anyone tell me the amount of free play their clutch lever has? I measured this one and it measures precisely at 1/2 inch. I simply don't know if that is good or bad. Oh yeah this bike is a 1st Edition, 86. All should be the same; 83 - 93 (Clutch lever free play, that is). Thanks in advance

[MiCarl]

I'm not really clear on how you are measuring but I can tell you my 89 has pretty much no free play.

 

Having said that, my previous worn out lever had quite a bit and shifting still wasn't an issue.

 

**EDIT**

 

By ball do you mean the knob on the end of the lever? Answer still 0.

[MasterGuns]

Thanks for the info Carl. So you have no free play at all, huh? If you have absolutely no free play (measured from the center of the knob on the shift lever at FULL extension to when the lever starts to pressurize the m/c), then perhaps my shifting issue is the m/c or the lever mechanism. The 1/2 in free play in my lever may be causing the clutch to not fully disengage.

[Venturous Randy]

Thanks for the info Carl. So you have no free play at all, huh? If you have absolutely no free play (measured from the center of the knob on the shift lever at FULL extension to when the lever starts to pressurize the m/c), then perhaps my shifting issue is the m/c or the lever mechanism. The 1/2 in free play in my lever may be causing the clutch to not fully disengage.

 

I have probably at least a 1/2 inch freeplay and mine releases fine. Is your clutch releasing good enough to allow you to put it in gear while stopped and not pull the bike noticably? If it is, then your clutch does not sound like the problem to me. Also, I routinely change gears to 3rd, to 4th and to 5th without using the clutch. Do you ever do that? I can do this smoother than when I use the clutch.

RandyA

Edited October 5, 2009 by Venturous Randy

[Ozark]

I'm am not a mechanic, but you also have to remember that these are not cable operated clutches. As such, you should expect to have a little free play with a hydraulic clutch. Does anyone agree with that? Like Randya said, if it shifts without easing the bike forward, you have full release.

[mbrood]

Mine shows 1/2". About 1/4 inch of spring, another 1/4 inch of light compression and she begins to engage.

[MiCarl]

Thanks for the info Carl. So you have no free play at all, huh? If you have absolutely no free play (measured from the center of the knob on the shift lever at FULL extension to when the lever starts to pressurize the m/c), then perhaps my shifting issue is the m/c or the lever mechanism. The 1/2 in free play in my lever may be causing the clutch to not fully disengage.

 

MasterGuns, as I stated in my first post: the lever that was on my motorcycle when I got it was so worn out it would flap in the wind and the motorcycle shifted just fine. Problem with a lever that loose is the cruise won't stay engaged.

 

I'm am not a mechanic, but you also have to remember that these are not cable operated clutches. As such, you should expect to have a little free play with a hydraulic clutch. Does anyone agree with that? Like Randya said, if it shifts without easing the bike forward, you have full release.

 

I agree. Mine builds pressure steadily from the released position.

 

I just remembered that I have a wrecked 86 in the shop. That clutch lever has at least 1/2" free play. The owner had not complained of shifting issues.

 

I just decided to try something with my 89. If I have it idling in 1st gear I need to let the lever out at least an inch before it starts to pull. That's cold, I bet it's even more hot. In other words, I have plenty of room for 1/2" free play and still have a functional clutch.

 

I think you either have air in the line or something wrong in the clutch itself (warped plates?).

Edited October 5, 2009 by MiCarl

[MasterGuns]

MasterGuns, as I stated in my first post: the lever that was on my motorcycle when I got it was so worn out it would flap in the wind and the motorcycle shifted just fine. Problem with a lever that loose is the cruise won't stay engaged.

 

 

 

I agree. Mine builds pressure steadily from the released position.

 

I just remembered that I have a wrecked 86 in the shop. That clutch lever has at least 1/2" free play. The owner had not complained of shifting issues.

 

I just decided to try something with my 89. If I have it idling in 1st gear I need to let the lever out at least an inch before it starts to pull. That's cold, I bet it's even more hot. In other words, I have plenty of room for 1/2" free play and still have a functional clutch.

 

I think you either have air in the line or something wrong in the clutch itself (warped plates?).

 

Carl, Thanks again for the info. I am covering all bases. I have both the m/c push rod and the brass fitting on order. I recently rebuilt the m/c but didn't replace those parts but will do so. I also have all the steel clutch plates on order and will replace my originals as soon as they come in. When everything is said and done to this thing, I will have replaced the following:

 

Both clutch friction and metal plates

Clutch diaphram spring

Slave cylinder

Rebuilt the m/c

Replaced the m/c push rod and brass fitting

 

I have bled the system till I was blue in the face using a Mitivac. There is no air in the lines. If shifting isn't improved after all that, I quit.

 

But here is something I just remembered. This VR shifts like butter until it gets hot. Perhaps the problem is not with the clutch or the hydralic clutch. Maybe the dogs are overly worn. Hummmm!

[rhncue]

Carl, Thanks again for the info. I am covering all bases. I have both the m/c push rod and the brass fitting on order. I recently rebuilt the m/c but didn't replace those parts but will do so. I also have all the steel clutch plates on order and will replace my originals as soon as they come in. When everything is said and done to this thing, I will have replaced the following:

 

Both clutch friction and metal plates

Clutch diaphram spring

Slave cylinder

Rebuilt the m/c

Replaced the m/c push rod and brass fitting

 

I have bled the system till I was blue in the face using a Mitivac. There is no air in the lines. If shifting isn't improved after all that, I quit.

 

But here is something I just remembered. This VR shifts like butter until it gets hot. Perhaps the problem is not with the clutch or the hydralic clutch. Maybe the dogs are overly worn. Hummmm!

 

I had a problem like yours and I use a mitivac also. When bleeding the master you will not get all of the air out of the line through the normal, established ways. Air gets trapped at the connection of the hose and master cylinder. This must be bled also. I pumped up my master a few times and then, with a rag under the master to catch the fluid, I would crack the banjo bolt bleeding the junction and then tighten again before releasing the lever. This is the high point in the system where air is most likely to collect.

 

Dick

[Squeeze]

What also helps on "hard to bleed" Lines is to pull the Lever with a Wire or a Bungee Cord or something similar to the Handle Bar and let it sit over night.

 

This completely bleeds the Line after several Repeats. But it doesn't help when the Air is trapped on the sharp Corner between M/C and Line like is on 1Gen Clutch M/C. Allways turn the Handle Bar to the right to Level the M/C. I use an old Handlebar and zip Tie it to the Bike and mount the M/C in a better Position.

[Condor]

What also helps on "hard to bleed" Lines is to pull the Lever with a Wire or a Bungee Cord or something similar to the Handle Bar and let it sit over night.

 

This completely bleeds the Line after several Repeats. But it doesn't help when the Air is trapped on the sharp Corner between M/C and Line like is on 1Gen Clutch M/C. Allways turn the Handle Bar to the right to Level the M/C. I use an old Handlebar and zip Tie it to the Bike and mount the M/C in a better Position.

 

I've seen this method posted on this board many times, but what I can't understand is how this helps purge air from the lines?? When the lever is pulled in just a tad it moves the compression cup and seals off the expansion hole as it moves past, and there isn't anywhere for the air to go. I would think that leaving the piston out would allow the air to escape... I even tried it to no avail when I first rebuilt a master, and tried to bleed the system. Can someone explain why it works....??

[Venturous Randy]

I've seen this method posted on this board many times, but what I can't understand is how this helps purge air from the lines?? When the lever is pulled in just a tad it moves the compression cup and seals off the expansion hole as it moves past, and there isn't anywhere for the air to go. I would think that leaving the piston out would allow the air to escape... I even tried it to no avail when I first rebuilt a master, and tried to bleed the system. Can someone explain why it works....??

 

Condor, my feelings exactly.

RandyA

[Guest HdHtr]

I've seen this method posted on this board many times, but what I can't understand is how this helps purge air from the lines?? When the lever is pulled in just a tad it moves the compression cup and seals off the expansion hole as it moves past, and there isn't anywhere for the air to go. I would think that leaving the piston out would allow the air to escape... I even tried it to no avail when I first rebuilt a master, and tried to bleed the system. Can someone explain why it works....??

 

It just does Jack. It just does. Even if someone knows why, it will still work. Brakes too.

[Condor]

It just does Jack. It just does. Even if someone knows why, it will still work. Brakes too.

 

But why?? I've posted reasons why it won't, but I'm always open to learn something new...

[Squeeze]

I can't explain it on more physical Way with Facts. But i try to explain with my poor Language ...

 

Once the Piston is beyond the Relief Hole and sealing that, pressure is built up in the hydraulic Fluid. This also puts the very same Pressure on the Air Bladder and Bubbles trapped inside the Line on various Places. Even when you fill the Reservoir, you will have very minimum Bubbles, some of them a small as you can't see them. This Pressure is a "Force" in the physical Meaning. This Force, togehter with "Air is lighter" and compressed Air has less Volume, which can't stick on the the inside Wall of the Fluid Hose as much as the big Bubble makes the Air come up in the Line. Also, when the Bubbles travel up inside the Hose they form a bigger Bladder and this Bladder has much more Lifting Force than a Lot of small single Bubbles.

 

The Bladder will rise to the highest Point of the Line. If the highest Point of the Bladder is just next to the Relief Hole, the Bladder will go up into the Reservoir and giving Way for the Fluid.

 

If the highest Point of the System is the Banjo Bolt Area on the Clutch Master, only half the trapped Air or less will come out, because unforced Air won't travel anywhere.

 

I'm sorry for the weak Explanation, but that's all i have at the Moment.

 

If you use standard Tools and standard Procedures, it's really important that you arrange the M/C to a Point where the Relief Hole is highest Point in the System, not the Banjo Bolt. I had good Luck while using my new Vaccum Pulling Bleeder Bottle, which is driven by compressed Air, but other than this Tool, whatever i used, MightyVac, Sringes, you name, caused me a Lot of Grief.

[Condor]

I can't explain it on more physical Way with Facts. But i try to explain with my poor Language ....

 

Nothing poor about your language skills Squeeze. The only 'hole' I can see in your explaination is that the clutch doesn't produce enough back pressure to cause the air to compress. Brakes? You bet, but not the clutch.

[Guest HdHtr]

But why?? I've posted reasons why it won't, but I'm always open to learn something new...

 

Nice job Squeeze. Now Jack ... just try it. Somethings are just worth a try! It won't hurt your bike(s) regardless.

 

We came by this years ago, on the old site, who ever posted it got it off a Wing site as I recall. It has worked for me and others.

[Squeeze]

I got this out of Road Racing, they do this over Night, because usually, they change Parts and flush the Fluids after Qualifying. This gives their Riders the best and crispiest Brake on Race Day.

 

Of Course you're right Jack, the Clutch Line doesn't give as much Resistance, thus Line Pressure as the Brakes, but it works anyway. It's a slower Process, but the Function stays the same.

[Condor]

Nice job Squeeze. Now Jack ... just try it. Somethings are just worth a try! It won't hurt your bike(s) regardless.

 

We came by this years ago, on the old site, who ever posted it got it off a Wing site as I recall. It has worked for me and others.

 

I have... Twice. Both times NADA.... I suppose if I let it sit over night some of the bubbles would rise to the top no matter what I did. But when I bleed the clutch I want to go riding now.... not the next day, or two to three days down the road... For those that have been around on this board for a while you know what I do. Takes about 15 minutes and it's done.