Monty Posted October 1, 2009 #1 Posted October 1, 2009 My '83 Venture is running bad....really bad. It had sat for 3 weeks. I got it out one day to ride, and it went to missing under load. It starts and idles fine. I checked out the fuel system...it's good. I replaced the spark plugs I replaced the fuel filter. Plug wires and caps check good. cleaned connectors to stator, regulator and TCI. When I ride it, it tries to go...has full power for a few secs, then sputters,and falls on its' nose. Under load, it just jerks back and forth. Backfires out the right side exhaust sometimes too. Like I said, it starts and idles fine...it's only under load. It looks like I have to remove my fairing to remove the TCI/coil assembly...is this correct? I had removed the airbox and battery box, and it seems the fairing has to come off next. Help!!
Marcarl Posted October 1, 2009 #2 Posted October 1, 2009 My first thought is: you have a fuel problem. If it were ignition you would ahve starting issues, but you seem to be running short of fuel, or at least fuel in the right mixture or the right place at the right time. Replace the fuel filter, bleed out the lines, bleed out your fuel bowls, and then add 1 can of seafoam to a half tank of gas. You may also have diaphram problems, but I would do the easy stuff first.
Monty Posted October 1, 2009 Author #3 Posted October 1, 2009 As I said, I replaced the fuel filter. I added a half can of Sea foam. I checked the diaphragms...good. I took the screw out and drained all the carbs, then blew carb cleaner back in there and rinsed them out. It isn't flooding or fouling the plugs real bad, but is it going thru fuel like crazy, with it missing so bad. Burned half a tank in just about 10 miles.
Marcarl Posted October 2, 2009 #4 Posted October 2, 2009 Something don't make a whole lot of sense here. You state that you're going through a lot of fuel, that would indicate a float problem possibly, but yet you say the plugs are good,,, are they black or grey? Are you using resistor plugs? Is the air filter clean? It starts fine, but how does it run if you go easy, at what rpm's does it cut out? What happens if you run the rpm's up sitting still, say up to 4000? Does it do this in all gears? Does it run hot? Just some questions.
Monty Posted October 2, 2009 Author #5 Posted October 2, 2009 I just put a new set of resistor plugs in it today. The plugs I took out weren't fouled. Air filter is good. I can idle, and drive fine up the driveway, at just above idle. Above that, it starts missing. Revving it in neutral produces a miss at higher rpm's. When it misses, it has a sort of "thump" sound. Does not run hot. I also forgot to mention that the tach went to being erratic and sometimes non-operational when this all started. I know it doesn't seem to add up...that's why I decided to ask for help on here. I am usually a pretty good mechanic. I am just stumped right now. I am leaning toward coils/TCI.
Marcarl Posted October 2, 2009 #6 Posted October 2, 2009 Why did you use resistor plugs? Exchange the resistor plugs for the standard plugs. You have resistor end caps on the ignition wires, that should be all you need. Last week I worked on a Honda CB 500, it wouldn't start and it had no spark. Stumped even the local mech. Took out the coils, tested them and had them tested. Checked everything, even exchanged the plugs with other ones that the owner had brought, no spark no where anywhere, but the coils tested fine. Put in a new set of resistor plugs, no good, put in standard plugs, and she rides. Runs like brand new now. So my advice is get yourself some standard plugs to start with.
ronhenry4 Posted October 2, 2009 #7 Posted October 2, 2009 Pour Gas all over the bike catch it on fire collect the insureance money and BUY A SECOND GENERATION :stirthepot::stirthepot::stirthepot:
Monty Posted October 2, 2009 Author #8 Posted October 2, 2009 OK, the plugs I used were Champion RA6HC. I used those because I wanted a 5/8 head instead of 18mm. http://www.sparkplugs.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=1103724&pid=4421 The old plugs were NGK DPR8EA-9. http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/3/13/123/18709/ITEM/NGK-DPR8EA-9---Spark-Plug.aspx The factory plugs are resistor type. Did you even see where I said the tach started messing up at the same time this problem started? They are most probably related. Which coil does it get the tach signal from? Do I have to remove the fairing to get the TCI and coils off?
painterman67 Posted October 2, 2009 #9 Posted October 2, 2009 mine did the same thing . Ended up being the tci box went south. David
Marcarl Posted October 2, 2009 #10 Posted October 2, 2009 You're right about the resistor plugs. I just looked it up and everybody, including the manual calls for the resistor. I put some in my 85 2 years ago, and it ran like crap, went back to the standard plug and it runs fine. This is the first I've heard of using resistor plugs. Guess a feller is never to old to learn. Once you have the battery box out, the TCI is available just in front of it. Bit of a pain to get out I understand, I've never approached mine yet, but you shouldn't have to pull a faring to do it, if I remember correctly from other conversations. Guys are now mounting them on top, for easier accessabilty and to keep them dry.
6m459 Posted October 2, 2009 #11 Posted October 2, 2009 Hi, I got my TCI out intact, without taking any farrings off. Once the battery box and the air box are out of the way, I also undid the 4 bolts that hold the battery box mounting frame strut in place and removed it. then I undid the 4 bolts that hold the frame strut that the TCI is mounted to. It wasn't easy to move these 8 bolts as I had to sneak a box end wriench around from inside the frame to the outside to do it. Fortunately some kind family members, last xmas, had given me a set of box end wrenches with hinged box ends. They saved the day for me on this job. ONce the TCI's frame strut is loose, I was able to pivot its aft end up by 45 degrees and then could get my fist in and a stubby screw driver onto the 2 screws holding the TCI in place. Before pivoting the TCI frame strut, I couldn't get a tool on those screws to save my life. Once that was done, I re rounted the wires to connect my TCI on top of the air box. Now I can change one in 5 minutes flat. Hope this helps & good luck. Brian H.
Yammer Dan Posted October 2, 2009 #12 Posted October 2, 2009 Pull connections to TCI and ckeck them first.
GeorgeS Posted October 2, 2009 #13 Posted October 2, 2009 First just remove the two plugs from the TCI, and Clean the Pins in each plug. Use CRC 2-26, or WD-40, to clean then apply dialectric greese. Second, find the Plug half way between the Pickup coils, ( mouted under the STator Cover ) About half way between stator and TCI, there is a 5 Wire pull apart plug. ( open plug, clean, apply dialectric greese ) Also make sure none of the wires on either side of this plug are comeing loose !! This plug is a common trouble spot. Third, Apply CRC 2-26 to the Run-Stop Switch, Give it a bath, and blow out with compressed air. ( Do the same for all handle bar switches ) Forth, Check the Ignition Fuse Holder, for loose and bent contacts. ( Unless you have allready replace the fuse panel ) ( If Not, replace the fuse panel with an ATM type fuse holder ) If none of the above helps, then Remove the TCI, open it up, put in Oven to Dry Out the Moisture thats in it. ( Unless you have allready done this job. ) This is a very common problem. ( water gets into these TCI units !! ) Nobody, gets past this problem, without doing something about it. Have you ever checked your Maine Electrical plug, running from the Stator, going to the Regulator ?? IF not, check this, the pins might be shorting, or turned into High Resistance, which can drop the voltage to all systems. Have you ever cleaned the Maine Grounding Studs, ?? Under the upper left fairing, and where the Black Batt Cable connects to the Engine Case ?? Might be worth a shot. Also, double check the Carb Diaphram covers. Might be a leak around the Gaskets Check the Clamps, holding Carbs to Intake manifolds, might be leaking. Also clamps on top of carbs.
Rocket Posted October 2, 2009 #14 Posted October 2, 2009 Did you even see where I said the tach started messing up at the same time this problem started? They are most probably related. Which coil does it get the tach signal from? #2 coil
bald josh Posted October 2, 2009 #15 Posted October 2, 2009 are there supposed to be gaskets under the diphram covers? sorry if a stupid ? but when i pulled mine i saw no remnants of gaskets and so assumed that was the way it was??? ive wondered about this...
bald josh Posted October 2, 2009 #16 Posted October 2, 2009 sorry, i dont know how to do the quote thing , but carb diaphram cover gaskets were mentioned in george s' reply
Marcarl Posted October 2, 2009 #17 Posted October 2, 2009 sorry, i dont know how to do the quote thing , but carb diaphram cover gaskets were mentioned in george s' reply The diaphram is the gasket.
Venturous Randy Posted October 2, 2009 #18 Posted October 2, 2009 Even though I suspect it is TCI related, If you pull out the black wire in the TCI big connector, you will disconnect all of the safety curcuits. You may have to slide a knife blade behind the terminal to dislodge the locking tab. Or, you could just cut it and put a male/ female terminal on for a quick disconnect in the future. If the bike runs better, start looking at that curcuit. Oh, and with this curcuit disconnected, make sure the bike is in neutral before you hit the start button. RandyA
mbrood Posted October 2, 2009 #19 Posted October 2, 2009 As described, the TCI puts a ground to each coil to get a spark. The tach is hooked up in parallel with the #2 coil so if the tach is losing signal, so is #2 plug. Most of the "new bike" problems are related to crusty, corrosion on the connector pins on the TCI and in the harness connections from the pickup coils, alternator outpput and regulator output. Check and clean and you might be surprised. You can JUST get to the TCI connectors from the left side with just the side covers removed,
Yammer Dan Posted October 2, 2009 #20 Posted October 2, 2009 First just remove the two plugs from the TCI, and Clean the Pins in each plug. Use CRC 2-26, or WD-40, to clean then apply dialectric greese. Second, find the Plug half way between the Pickup coils, ( mouted under the STator Cover ) About half way between stator and TCI, there is a 5 Wire pull apart plug. ( open plug, clean, apply dialectric greese ) Also make sure none of the wires on either side of this plug are comeing loose !! This plug is a common trouble spot. Third, Apply CRC 2-26 to the Run-Stop Switch, Give it a bath, and blow out with compressed air. ( Do the same for all handle bar switches ) Forth, Check the Ignition Fuse Holder, for loose and bent contacts. ( Unless you have allready replace the fuse panel ) ( If Not, replace the fuse panel with an ATM type fuse holder ) If none of the above helps, then Remove the TCI, open it up, put in Oven to Dry Out the Moisture thats in it. ( Unless you have allready done this job. ) This is a very common problem. ( water gets into these TCI units !! ) Nobody, gets past this problem, without doing something about it. Have you ever checked your Maine Electrical plug, running from the Stator, going to the Regulator ?? IF not, check this, the pins might be shorting, or turned into High Resistance, which can drop the voltage to all systems. Have you ever cleaned the Maine Grounding Studs, ?? Under the upper left fairing, and where the Black Batt Cable connects to the Engine Case ?? Might be worth a shot. Also, double check the Carb Diaphram covers. Might be a leak around the Gaskets Check the Clamps, holding Carbs to Intake manifolds, might be leaking. Also clamps on top of carbs. Good one George. Should be a winter time list for these (more mature) bikes!
Monty Posted October 2, 2009 Author #21 Posted October 2, 2009 Thanks for all the good suggestions. Many of them have already been done, but not all. I am going to tear into it big time this weekend, and hopefully I'll get it sorted out.
ScottXD45 Posted October 2, 2009 #22 Posted October 2, 2009 Even though I suspect it is TCI related, If you pull out the black wire in the TCI big connector, you will disconnect all of the safety curcuits. You may have to slide a knife blade behind the terminal to dislodge the locking tab. Or, you could just cut it and put a male/ female terminal on for a quick disconnect in the future. If the bike runs better, start looking at that curcuit. Oh, and with this curcuit disconnected, make sure the bike is in neutral before you hit the start button. RandyA That's a good tip! I didn't know that. I'm going to have to remember that one.
Monty Posted October 10, 2009 Author #23 Posted October 10, 2009 I am back riding again!! Been down for a month. Thanks to Snaggletooth, I bought a TCI, and it works great. I have it mounted on top of my airbox now, 'cause I don't ever wanna dig down to it again...whew. Thanks for all of the input in helping me sort thru this. I'm goin' ridin'.
mbrood Posted October 10, 2009 #24 Posted October 10, 2009 Boy, it's starting to look like we all need to carry the basic tools and a spare TCI? I always have basic tools, hoses, fuses, rope, tape and rags... but a spare igniition brain? Well, I guess compared to a tow job, it's cheap... Glad you are back up and running, Monty!
Snaggletooth Posted October 16, 2009 #25 Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) Hey Monty. Hope ya get a lot of years out of that TCI. It was one of the best condition ones I've seen. Glad it worked for ya. Mike Edited October 16, 2009 by Snaggletooth
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