newbie electrical gremlins

[longrider805]

I purchased a 87 VR with 68K on Friday. The bike has been sitting for 5 years or better, last registered in 99. Went through the carbs over the weekend and she fired right up, sorta. At first I thought I had a dead charging system. I cleaned the connectors and now have 13.63 V going to a new battery. However, after pulling and cleaning a bunch of connectors, I have a dead tach. Re-checked everything and no luck. I also have a number one cylinder that is not pulling its weight. I will check valve clearence and do a compression test on that issue at a later time. The tach was working before, and I can't get the engine to respond to throttle input, I know the cylinder dragging is part of the issue, however it should slowly gain RPM's. Are there known issues with ECM's on these bikes? Any input would be greatly appreciated. I was a BMW / Kawasaki tech in a former life, but that was eons ago. Yams are a little greek to me. Looking forward to a long relationship with this particular bike. Once again, thanks for any hints.

 

Longrider805

[bobcat]

Sounds like a potential TCI problem..the TCI sits under the battery..I'd pull the air filter box to gain access to the TCI plug and clean the plug connections...Also if you haven't already I'd change the spark plugs....

The real tech guys should be weighing in on this soon...

Good Luck

[bongobobny]

OK you have a 2 coil pickup system. There is a connector halfway up the rear section of the frame above the voltage regulator that sometimes gets dirty connections and craps out. The tach gets it's signal indirectly from one of these pickup coils. Also, as mentioned, your TCI may be giving you problems as well, either from bad connections, or moisture inside the box. The TCI is located under the coils, and can be relocated on top of your airbox...

[longrider805]

Thank you folks, that will be my starting point. I did powerwash the engine to remove the grunge that accumulated over the years. Maybe I brought this one on myself. Any suggestions for aftermarket slip ons? Mine has aftermarket pipes on it and they are disturbingly loud. They appear to be Macs or Jardines. Long, thin and annoying.

 

Longrider805

[Marcarl]

OK you have a 2 coil pickup system. There is a connector halfway up the rear section of the frame above the voltage regulator that sometimes gets dirty connections and craps out. The tach gets it's signal indirectly from one of these pickup coils. Also, as mentioned, your TCI may be giving you problems as well, either from bad connections, or moisture inside the box. The TCI is located under the coils, and can be relocated on top of your airbox...

Actually there are two connectors that might give you headaches. 1st is the three wire connector, that's 3 white wires, coming directly from the stator to the regulator, some guys solve this issue with a soldering job and that makes good sense.

The other connector comes from the regulator and goes to the bike, Like Bob says, it craps up once in a while and maybe in certain cases need to be replaced, like mine. Your tach signal comes from this one and that might have something to do with you other issues as well. Good Luck, let us know how you make out.

[timgray]

Thank you folks, that will be my starting point. I did powerwash the engine to remove the grunge that accumulated over the years. Maybe I brought this one on myself. Any suggestions for aftermarket slip ons? Mine has aftermarket pipes on it and they are disturbingly loud. They appear to be Macs or Jardines. Long, thin and annoying.

 

Longrider805

 

I always use a engine cleaner like engine brite. spray it on, scrub with a soft toothbrush and paint brush, then rinse it off. no chance of forcing water into every electrical plug and causing gremlins.

 

Also check your connections from the TCI to each coil. a dirty connection there can keep a coil from firing. I would also get a can of electrical contact cleaner and a tube of dielectric grease and open, clean, grease, close, every single connector you can find.

[6m459]

Don't over look the fuse box as a potential source of problems electrical.

 

The OEM fuse box really needs to be swapped out as it is not Yama's best work.

 

Most folks swap in a fuse box that accepts the ATM blade style fuses.

 

I put in a pair of littlefuse part #03500417 on my bikes.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Brian H.

Edited September 21, 2009 by 6m459
url error

[longrider805]

Still giving me fits, however I appreciate all the input. Just changed jobs and time is really tight. Changed the plugs this evening (whew), my 81 wing she's not.

 

No change, pulled the TCI plugs and they have a significant amount of corrosion on them, I suspect all of the plugs do if these are affected. I made a attempt at cleaning the tach pick up plug and I have some tach activity, but its not consistant, and it responds really slowly. Number one is dead as a doorknob. Still haven't run a compression test on that cylinder, but I suspect that the issue is a bad TCI. The PO parked it for a reason i'm sure. Goes to show that if they are cheap enough, there is a reason..........Time will tell.

 

Thanks again folks, I will keep trying.

 

Longrider805

[Yammer Dan]

I would almost bet pulling the TCI and drying it out will cure it. NEVER use power washer on these things. Did the same thing to my 85 first day I had it.

You can pull the TCI and open it up put in oven for about a hr at 150 Clean the connections and put it back on top of the Air box instead of where it is.

[rhncue]

Still giving me fits, however I appreciate all the input. Just changed jobs and time is really tight. Changed the plugs this evening (whew), my 81 wing she's not.

 

No change, pulled the TCI plugs and they have a significant amount of corrosion on them, I suspect all of the plugs do if these are affected. I made a attempt at cleaning the tach pick up plug and I have some tach activity, but its not consistant, and it responds really slowly. Number one is dead as a doorknob. Still haven't run a compression test on that cylinder, but I suspect that the issue is a bad TCI. The PO parked it for a reason i'm sure. Goes to show that if they are cheap enough, there is a reason..........Time will tell.

 

Thanks again folks, I will keep trying.

 

Longrider805

 

Are you sure you have your cylinder number correct and it's #1 and not #2 that is not working. The coil firing on #2 is what drives the tac. If it is dead so will your tac.

 

Dick

[longrider805]

Hey Dick,

 

Not familiar with the firing order yet, so little time to research things right now. As you are sitting on the bike, the right front cylinder is the one that is giving me fits.

 

Longrider805:bang head:

[timgray]

A used "gamble" TCI is around $100-$150 on ebay. if it's dead when you get it, you gambled and lost. From what I can tell MOST Venture TCI's have a problem with the diodes inside corroding and breaking. When one of these fail they can arc and take out other components. Sometimes they can be fixed, other times they cant.

 

My Bike is dead because of a failed TCI, I have a "NEW" aftermarket TCI coming from a company in Croatia called "INGITECH" their TCIP4 Full works on our bikes and they even have a spark timing that is correct. You do give up the highway cruise advanced timing function though.

 

With the current exchange rates I paid $250.00 and it's the only "guaranteed to work" TCI you can get.

 

Many of the ebay sellers sell "as-is" so if the TCI you buy is dead, you just bought a dead TCI for a lot of money.

[longrider805]

Hey gang,

 

Finally removed the TCI and opened it up this evening, looks like a major thermal event occured in the House Of Wax. Total meltdown. In search of the elusive TCI now, by saying the Croation TCI doesn't allow for the timing advance during the "Cruise" mode, does this render the cruise inop, or just hamper performance during terrain changes?

Once again, THANKS EVERYBODY!!!.

 

Longrider805:225:

[Yammer Dan]

Hey gang,

 

Finally removed the TCI and opened it up this evening, looks like a major thermal event occured in the House Of Wax. Total meltdown. In search of the elusive TCI now, by saying the Croation TCI doesn't allow for the timing advance during the "Cruise" mode, does this render the cruise inop, or just hamper performance during terrain changes?

Once again, THANKS EVERYBODY!!!.

 

Longrider805:225:

 

Loaned out my extra. Might be someone close that has one you could try it out with. Pull the slack out of the harness so you can put it back on top of the air cleaner box. You could try carefully cleaning it out in there and getting it dry but don't sound good. Good thing is once you move it to top of box it just takes seconds to swap them to try another.

[6m459]

Hey gang,

 

Finally removed the TCI and opened it up this evening, looks like a major thermal event occured in the House Of Wax. Total meltdown.

 

Did your TCI look like [ame=http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=39805]this[/ame]?

 

This one was brought back from the dead.

 

Suggest you take a picture or two of your TCI innards and post them for comment.

 

Apparently all parts on the Printed Circuit board are still available EXCEPT the large IC's that are under the sub PC boards. As long as problems are with available parts it should be possible to revive it.

 

There are 8 small glass diodes that are quite fragile and seem to disintigrate over the years. The first step in TCI rehabilitation is to swap them out with modern 1n400x diodes.

 

The traces on the PC board loft off pretty easily so a lot of care is needed while working on it but I think there could be hope.

 

Hope this is of interest.

 

Brian H.

[longrider805]

I will try to post pics tomorrow, mine looks like melted butter inside. Lots of burnt diodes. I am leaning towards a replacement.

 

Longrider805

[6m459]

I will try to post pics tomorrow, mine looks like melted butter inside. Lots of burnt diodes. I am leaning towards a replacement.

 

Longrider805

 

I agree. A replacement is a good idea. I bought one on Ebay and got lucky. Despite the sellers assurances, I wasn't really sure till I hit the starter button.

 

That said, they aren't making these any more, so there are only a finite number. If your original can be repaired it is worth doing as a spare.

 

As long as the special proprietary IC's under the sub PC boards are OK then it should be possible to repair it.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Brian H.

[longrider805]

No Brian mine looks more like this, Ewwwwwww!

 

First time with this sites attachment program, hope these come through.

 

Kent

[Dano]

Man, no wonder I hate cheese! That thing looks NASTY in there! I'm surprised it worked at all! I know they pour a sealant on there after manufacturing and it can yellow, but not like this!

 

Good luck finding a replacement!

 

 

BTW, do we have anybody doing repairs? I've got one with 2 channels down and would like to have it repaired!

 

Dan

[6m459]

That does look yucky alright.

 

It doesn't mean it can't be repaired though.

 

I'd be swapping out those diodes and looking for bad solder joints / broken traces to resolder if it were mine. I wouldn't write it off at least till that has been tried.

 

If you want to send it my way, I'll take a look at it but I have no special equipment to test and diagnose it with. I'd do all the physical repairs I could find and then use my own bike as a test bed.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Brian H

[CrazyHorse]

That does look yucky alright.

 

It doesn't mean it can't be repaired though.

 

I'd be swapping out those diodes and looking for bad solder joints / broken traces to resolder if it were mine. I wouldn't write it off at least till that has been tried.

 

If you want to send it my way, I'll take a look at it but I have no special equipment to test and diagnose it with. I'd do all the physical repairs I could find and then use my own bike as a test bed.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Brian H

Wasnt somebody here set up to test TCI I think a guy named DAN from Indiana or Illinois.

[Rocket]

BTW, do we have anybody doing repairs? I've got one with 2 channels down and would like to have it repaired!

 

Dan

 

It was DonB in Windsor Ont. But he was having fun, trying to find some parts.

[longrider805]

Don't know if I "lucked out" or not, but I located a used TCI off of a 93 this morning. I know its a gamble, but now I have a whole 1500 bucks tied up in the bike, so I am not complaining at this point. The bike came with a new set of Dunlops that I need to mount up. Guess I will tackle the dead clutch slave cylinder and frozen rear master cylinder at this point. I am still considering the Checz unit even if this TCI pans out. I plan on keeping this bike for a long time.

 

To everyone that offered advice and assistance, I extend a warm thank you and I intend to help the next person in need as well.

 

Kent R

Longrider805

[mbrood]

Um... the 90-93 models used a CDI and it was designed for the single pickup...

The 83 model was also different, so you need to stick with 84-89 TCI versions.

[longrider805]

what are the possibilities of updating the pick up to the single unit? Seems as though these units are made of unobtainium.

 

Kent R.