Any Electricians out there

[BuddyRich]

Is it just me or is there something wrong with this pic. And I don't mean my fingers being inside the service box.

I'm just wondering where they grounded everything at.

[Steve S]

There may be a ground lead coming in to the top of the ground bar. I couldn't see the whole bar to tell.

[BuddyRich]

That's just it. Theres nothing bigger than a 10 going to the ground bar and that's from the internal circuits. Well, there is a stranded 6 but that's to the dryer. The rest of the bar looks the same.We also have a PVC for the water line coming in.

[Moakster]

They may have grounded the can at another location with a short ground wire. This way the grounding bar attaches to the can with bolts or screws will serve as a completed ground to the can. I have seen it done but is not a safe way to ground the system.

[Dano]

Is there no other big wire attached to the panel anywhere? Is there a ground rod installed outside? Could be a serious problem if there's not. Means your system isn't earth grounded. Any spikes could potentially be hazardous and your circuit breakers may not operate properly. I see situations in panels all the time, makes me wonder how somebody hasn't gotten hurt. Got any questions? Take a pic of the whole panel and post it. Tell me if the panel's on an outside wall w/access to a dirt area. I'll help you get one in.

 

Dan

[BuddyRich]

Thanks Dan, I'll open it back up an take some pics tomorrow. I don't see a grounding rod outside anywhere either. Appears to be 3 #1's Aluminum. 2,110vac and 1 common. I just guessing on the feed guage. Its a 200 amp service.

[JimRoberts]

I'll bet there's a ground somewhere else in the panel. But then some older homes only had to be grounded at the meter. Any idea when the panel was installed?

[wes0778]

Don't know about Texas, but "Code" in Mississippi requires an 8' ground rod and I believe #6(minimum) wire from the rod to the ground lug in the box. That wire to/from the ground rod does not have to be insulated.

[Dano]

A 200 amp service minimum grounding conductor is a #4 copper. He says there's no ground rod, and only 3 #1 aluminum conductors feeding the panel. WAY undersized on an Al conductor. Should be a 4/0 Al wire at minimum, 2/0 on Cu ('bout as big as your thumb) if there's a 200 amp main breaker installed. Lets see those pics, then it'll be known.

[BuddyRich]

House (Double-wide) was built in 07. There's a panel on the meter pole (overhead feed) then underground to the house. The house panel is on an inside wall with a 3 inch PVC feed drop to underneath for the servce to come up.. The feeds maybe what you say Dan. They are about 3/4 the size of my thumb. Hanging traffic signals years ago we never worked with anything bigger than a 4 stranded. Did pull a lot of 12/12. Loved doing that by hand when there was more than 5 of them from the controller box out.I was guessing at the guage.

Just checked the main breaker just below the meter. Its 200A

[wes0778]

Being a mobile home, there is also suppose to be a ground wire clamped to each main frame, under the house. Check to see if there is a bare wire stapled to the pole and running down to the ground (dirt). The grounding rod may have been driven into place in the post hole, before the pole was set. If so it may not be visible. At any rate there should be 4 wires running from the box on the pole into the house. (2-lines, 1-neutral and 1-ground(usually bare))

[KB2RWW]

I have seen several Mobil home's/double wides that I worked on, grounded thru the frame. the manufacturer would run a minimum of 10ga wire from the ground bar to the traler frame and the frame grounded to a ground rod. thy may have the ground bar and the neutral buss bonded together and your neutral is grounded out at the meeter pan.

where i live they require a continuous ground run from 2 earth rod's 8' apart at the meatier then to the meter pan then to the box in the house then back out to another ground rod then out to your well if you have one then back to the two ground rod's in one continuous loop with no splices or brakes."it's a lot of copper" & I've Ben there, had to run it for my service upgrade to my manufactured housing.

[BuddyRich]

Now the house is strapped to the foundations. That was an FHA requirement. What I'm not seeing I guess is the completed circuit from the straps to the panel ground bar. I'll take some pics underneath too.

[GS51]

We don't have the whole picture.

Electrical grounding is a system not just a connection, and may include, but may not be required in all cases a ground rod, a ground grid , or ground through the undergroung water lines depending on local code and / or condutions.

As for your picture you only show 1 ground bar but a good installer will install 2' one on each side of the panel it keeps the wiring in the panel cleaner.If this is not a mobil home the ground wire may be attached to the nutural bar ( White Wire) in the panel and then the nutural bar is bonded or connected to the metal panel throught a bond screw on this bar unless you know what to look fore you will not see it. If you only have only 3 conductors comming (2 large and 1 half the size of the others)them the nutural is bonded to the metal panel ( required by code ) and this panel is truely the main service panel. all panels fead from this one will be required to have 4 wires 2 hot 1 nutural and the ground

Mobile homes have isolated panels ( the ground bar is inslated from the nutural and they run 4 wires to the panel 2 hots nutural and ground ) actualy in a mobile home the panel inside is as subpanel the main panel is outside and uaualy only had the the single 200 amp main and that where the system grounding is attached. in fact all subpanels are requirded to have a isolated nutural with a seperate ground wire

As for no ground rod they are not necessary but usualy used because it's cheaper to install, if you use the underground water lines or a ground grid. either is better then a ground rod. I know their is going to be somebody out there that will say other wise but I have been doing this for 40 years and they use a ground rod because it's easier to install. I have seen instulations where the engineer requires both even when the code only requires one. If you use a ground rod the end of the rod where the wire connects must be exposed so you can inspect it from time to time, inaddition if you use a ground rod you are still required to BOND the water system to the electrical ground. this is to prevent you from getting a shock when you touch the plumming if you have a ground fault on an attached device.

Why is a a ground rod not necessarly the best ground?

With a ground rod the only contact with the earth ( ground) is the surfice of the 5/8" rod when you think about it that's not much. In dry condutions that may not even ground at all. Then the futher you get from the rod the greater the potential differance. That differance is what gives you the trouble.

In a very large building if you measure the potenel from the ground rod to different points on the earth around the building you could have ( I know I measured it one time ) over 100 volts differance between the two points thats more then enought to kill you, while still grounded acording to code, also if you have dry condutions the ground rod may not even ground youe system at all. if you use the water lines you not only have the pipes on your property but all of the pipes that are buired in the ground for miles back to the pumpimg station. I have seen where it's comon in some areas to run a ground loop or grid buired along the foundation before they back fill it ths makes sure all areas are the same potenal and is one of the best ground system you can have. In all electrical installations careful attention to the grounding system will save you big later.

I have found over the years most electricans tend to cut corners on electrical installations to save a few bucks and increase their profit. The customer thinks they can save money this way but this is the last place you want to cut corners. With all the expensive electronics in use today why take the chance when the resalt is fire or death.

[ArcsSparks]

simple you have a neutral back to the transformer (which is grounded at the pole) and there should be a bare #6 0r #8 hard drawn copper connected to a ground rod and connected to maybe the neutral bar ( which is alright because the ground between the neutral bar and the ground bar is the panel box itself) if you don't have a earth ground at the panel box, get a electrician to installed one, your living in a fire trap without one

[Steve S]

Mobile homes and modular homes have vastly different wiring codes than "stick built" houses and buildings have. (Some of these even vary from state to state.) I would bet, that somewhere, there is an explaination for the grounding method that is used in your home. (Whatever it may be.)

 

I would love to see alumium wiring outlawed and the same standard of wiring code used for prebuilt homes as for constructed buildings. With the amount of aluminum wiring that is used, it is no wonder that mobile homes catch fire so often from electrical problems. But I guess the expense of copper wiring outweighs the safety concerns that arise from using cheap materials. :bang head: