Handling problem

[VENTUREMAX]

MY 91 VENTURE ROYAL ROCKS LEFT TO RIGHT AT 70 MPH+, NOT A LOT,:scratchchin:JUST A LITTLE.ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS PROBLEM?

[skydoc_17]

Hey Max,

There are a couple of things that I would check if it were my VR and the 1st thing would be the Steering head bearings. They are located under the cover where the Ignition Key goes. You might give the upper retaining nut a "smack" with a hammer and punch to tighten then up. The next thing I would check is the front tire for uneven wear and tire pressure. Also you can elevate the rear end slightly by using the CLASS Control Panel, go into manual, select the rear shock and add a few pounds of air at a time to transfer some more weight to the front end.

Sometimes it takes a combination of the above items to solve the problem. Lastly, a good aftermarket front fork brace has worked for some of the members.

Let us know what you figure out.

Earl

[camos]

Another thing to check is the front wheel bearings by taking the wheel off and visually checking. If nothing else, adding some grease would be a good thing. I have seen several reports where a bit of a wobble was present while riding but no other indication there was a problem with the bearings like being able to move the wheel by hand, a squealing sound or flaky braking.

[jasonm.]

wheel bearings can be checked by having someone hold the steering to one side and you grab the wheel to feel any loose or "clicks" by applying pressue to the edge of the wheel...back and forth. Also you can check with a dial indicator the same way you check rotors(discs). Do it at the discs because the wheel are NOT machined perfect. they allow a lot of runout on the wheels as the manufacturing is not so critical on the outside edge of the rim. Only the inside is machined.

[camos]

What you say is probably correct jasonm if done by a machinist or an experienced mechanic and under some circumstances by us ordinary bikers. What I was trying to say is I have seen more than a few instances when ordinary guys have said they had checked the front wheel and it seemed alright only to eventually pull the wheel and find the bearings were definitely gone. This is just a heads up for some of us that when something is not working correctly and nothing wrong can be found deeper investigation is required. In this case, pull the wheel and check the bearings.

[Marcarl]

Had that same problem with my 85, and Wizard with his 84. He installed Metzlers and fixed the issue, he was running brand new Avons. I was also on a new rear Avon and so changed to another new one but had the same problem, so I went to Dunlops and still had an issue. Interesting thing was, that once I put a passenger on the back, everything went as well as expected. So last winter I pulled the whole front end apart, started with new wheel bearings. When I put it back together, everything went back together lose first. I then snugged up the front axle, then tightened the fork brace, I then checked the level of the forks in the triple tree and tightened them in and then I finished with the torque on the axle. All is now happy happy, but I still haven't worn out the Dunlops so that I can try the Avons again.

[TexasFlyer]

Hi Guys. I mentioned this on another thread, but this looks like the correct thread. My 1983 Venture. I had both tires replaced 10 days ago. New Shinko on the front and new Avon on the rear, both mounted by my Yamaha dealer. I changed the fork oil (the same day as the tires) for the first time in unknown decades. Put it all back together, torqued up and jumped on for a ride. My dad (been riding for 70 years) says "not possible", but I claim the bike has a completely new feel to it. Old Dunlops felt really heavy and took muscle to steer. New tires are like riding on razorblades. Whew! Feels fast and light on it's feet. HOWEVER, now when I get around 75 or more, the bike has a real slow 'wobble'. If I begin to feel the wobble, my instinct says 'back off' as it feels like it may become unstable. Really weird to me. I did everything I knew how to do (I have the factory manuals for the bike) to verify that the bearings and all the parts of the fork were happy. I just took the bike out for a nine-day, 1763 mile trip and everything was very very nice as long as I stayed under 75. After thinking about it, it almost feels as though the handlebars/tubes/fork are not "stiff" anymore. I will pull it apart again later this week and check the bearings in the fork. Wheel bearings are good. Oh! A detail: I installed the new 'dynamic balancing beads' inside the tires, and I think they are super! I am just now wondering if they are contributing to my wobble at high speed? Comments are solicited!! Thanks.

[Marcarl]

I can't really say for sure what fixed it for me, but it was either the wheel bearings or the upper forks adjustment, or both. It wouldn't take much in either case to cause this issue. The allowed movement in the bearing may not be able to be felt just by wiggling the front wheel, and if the fork height is out just slightly it could also contribute to the problem simply by having the scoot leaning of to one side to start with.

[Thom]

Hi Guys. I mentioned this on another thread, but this looks like the correct thread. My 1983 Venture. I had both tires replaced 10 days ago. New Shinko on the front and new Avon on the rear, both mounted by my Yamaha dealer. I changed the fork oil (the same day as the tires) for the first time in unknown decades. Put it all back together, torqued up and jumped on for a ride. My dad (been riding for 70 years) says "not possible", but I claim the bike has a completely new feel to it. Old Dunlops felt really heavy and took muscle to steer. New tires are like riding on razorblades. Whew! Feels fast and light on it's feet. HOWEVER, now when I get around 75 or more, the bike has a real slow 'wobble'. If I begin to feel the wobble, my instinct says 'back off' as it feels like it may become unstable. Really weird to me. I did everything I knew how to do (I have the factory manuals for the bike) to verify that the bearings and all the parts of the fork were happy. I just took the bike out for a nine-day, 1763 mile trip and everything was very very nice as long as I stayed under 75. After thinking about it, it almost feels as though the handlebars/tubes/fork are not "stiff" anymore. I will pull it apart again later this week and check the bearings in the fork. Wheel bearings are good. Oh! A detail: I installed the new 'dynamic balancing beads' inside the tires, and I think they are super! I am just now wondering if they are contributing to my wobble at high speed? Comments are solicited!! Thanks.

 

i have the same thing as you and i have tryed 4 dif. front tires , rite now i have a E-3 , seams like the E-2 had less of a problem , i just got a mark 1 chen witch i am going to try next , talking with other 1st genners it is a common problem , it is not bad 2 up or pulling a trailer but gets worse when the air psi is lower than 40 lbs , but the E-3 the max psi is 40 lbs but i use 42 lbs , i have rebuilt my forks , and install Condor's fork brace witch helped a lot , thanks Condor !! , i can cruise all day at 70 mph but at 75 i am tired in a hour . It is not a wobble it is a weave , it is very bad when i am drafting a SUV . i have changed my saddle bags , removed the trunk , see profile , i have cut the windshield 3.5 in. and it is straight at the top , thinking of removing it to see what happens , i would like to hear from any 1st genners that have a small windshield or a oversize one to see if they have the weave ? sence a lot of my frairing is not on , lower and side , and other riders with all their frairing have the same problem i think it mite be the windshield . thinking about a poll ? if you have it , what size w/s , what brand tire and psi. and stock fork springs or aftermarkets .

A after thought , it is very bad when i use the highway pegs , but i know it is not the size 12 boots LOL and if the 1st rider posts that he do's not have the problem and has small feet i am goin to ride over too his house and take away his DQ !!!!

Thom

[CrazyHorse]

MY 91 VENTURE ROYAL ROCKS LEFT TO RIGHT AT 70 MPH+, NOT A LOT,:scratchchin:JUST A LITTLE.ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS PROBLEM?

 

So your getting a shimy or wobble left to right? The only thing that really helped me was solid engine mounts. I did the super brace,new tires, progressive springs ,tested the bearings etc. For me it was the solid engine mounts. Im not saying it will help you and its not an easy job especially the left rear one, but something to look into if all else fails. Mine is fine above the legal speed limit when track tested. Cause one wouldnt want to go over the speed limit.

Edited September 13, 2009 by CrazyHorse

[TexasFlyer]

My handling issue on my 1983 is really a 'weave' like you mentioned. Not really fast enough to be called a wobble or a shimmy. And it is worse when being buffetted - aka slapped around - by the Semi's and SUV's windstreams. It was not detectable even at 85 with my old E2's. It started the day I changed the fork oil, tires, and repositioned the handlebars all at the same time. I do have a troubleshooting list I made to test and eliminate the problem step by step, and the first on my list is the front tire pressure. Took the whole trip at 32psi. Testing will go higher psi. I'll let you know what I find when I find it!!

[camos]

Any chance you did not get the oil levels in the forks exactly the same when it was changed?

[TexasFlyer]

Some of our forum readers may not know this, but in Texas there are areas on the roads in certain parts of the state that have no posted speed limit. I know that sounds silly, but when I am riding along and come upon a sign that says "reduce speed ahead", and when I get to the next sign it says "speed limit 85" or on a different road says "speed limit 80", that is, well, pretty cool.

 

I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could. (All my kids were born in Texas.)

[GigaWhiskey]

Do a search for warble. It is a weave. If that fits you there are a bunch of things to do to fix it. Fixed most of mine with solid engine mounts. There is still a tad bit of something now at about 100, just need to figure that out, prolly in the rear.

[TexasFlyer]

...oil levels in the fork... well, they are within a couple TENTHS of an ounce of each other. But I would take a lot of convincing to get me to think that the 10-weight oil which is used for the dampening of the front wheel bounce could have any effect on the handling issue I am experiencing. But I will listen to everything - that is why I come here. Great group of friends!

[camos]

Seems close enough, some people don't take the care they should when doing things like this. Glad to know you aren't one of them.

If there is enough difference between the two forks damping some torque could be applied to the wheel which might cause it to track slightly off. Probably a long shot but couldn't think of a reason not to mention it.

 

Oh ya, when I change fork oil I measure the level down from the top instead of the volumn. Don't know if it is a good thing to do or not but I figure if not all the old oil gets drained then dumping in a measured amount could make them uneven. Perhaps I'm just a little crazy.

Edited September 14, 2009 by camos

[CrazyHorse]

I believe I read something also about the swing arm related also. But if you changed things and didnt have it before I would look at those things first.

[Venturous Randy]

I suspect that it is a combination of contributors that up to a point were not enough to matter, until you installed the Avon rear tire. There have been several of us 1st genners that were generally happy with the handling of our bikes until we installed Avons and were very happy with the handling until about 70mph and on. What I encountered was a "tail wag" that was so bad at 100mph that it scared the crap out of me.

Last summer I installed an Elite III on the back and this year I put an Elite III on the front. My bike does not have the feeling of being as agile, but it feels ALOT more stable.

When I saw your post, my question was going to be; "Do you have an Avon tire on the back?" You answered that.

Randya

[PBJ]

I have an 85 and recently had the exact same problem. I though it was head bearing wheel bearings, you name it. I had just put a brand new Kendra Kruz tire on the rear and had an almost new Dunlop on the front. No problems before the Kruz was onor even the first few rides. It didn't show until i rode the bike solo for the first time over 70 mph. then it was just like you described and the fast the morse it got. i was riding with friends and almost turned back

 

We were on amd M&E and it was at a dealers place and the looked over the bike front to back. Their answer was it was the tire. The Kendra has a very thick hard center section. Its a long distance touring tire made for Wings and big Harleys ( probably with heavy riders in mind). With out the signifigant other and empty saddle bags the bike weaves just over 70-75 mph. Load up the girl friend and no weave right up to 85 and over.Go figure. Don't over look the other suggestions here but Marcarl and I both found it in the tires that could be the same fore you.

[CrazyHorse]

I suspect that it is a combination of contributors that up to a point were not enough to matter, until you installed the Avon rear tire. There have been several of us 1st genners that were generally happy with the handling of our bikes until we installed Avons and were very happy with the handling until about 70mph and on. What I encountered was a "tail wag" that was so bad at 100mph that it scared the crap out of me.

Last summer I installed an Elite III on the back and this year I put an Elite III on the front. My bike does not have the feeling of being as agile, but it feels ALOT more stable.

When I saw your post, my question was going to be; "Do you have an Avon tire on the back?" You answered that.

Randya

 

So far my Avons have been fine.

[a1bummer]

I believe the correct term for the wobble or weave would be oscillation. A high frequency oscillation would be the wobble, and a low frequency oscillation would be the weave.

 

I had the problem a couple years back. I had the wobble, or the tail wag when I hit the long sweeping curves at 100+. I repacked the steering head bearings, changed nothing. Changed the rear tire, better but still there. Then I noticed the eneven wear on the front tire. Changed it and the problem went away.

 

Now this spring I noticed that when the wind caught me just right or a when passing a semi, it felt as though the rear tire was made of Jello. I also had a tail wag back, but at 70 -75 mph this time. I only got 6000 miles out of that ME880 then put on an Avon Venom. The felling felt worse! I checked the rear wheel bearings when I had the rear wheel off for the tire change. They felt and looked fine. But when on the bike, I could feel a tiny bit of free-play in the bearings. I changed the rear bearings and the bike feels great again.

 

Later I plan on adding the fork brace and solid engine mounts to see if I can make it feel even better.

 

Hope this help someone!

[Thom]

for the last 2 days i have been trying something , i aired the front to max 21 lbs and dropped the rear to 21 the 1st day than today i dropped the rear to 18lbs and it helped , i did 10 miles at 78 on the speedo and had very little weave , and i would like the thank the yellow mustage because when i started slowing down to the speed limit coming around a long sweep that black and white was just pulling over the mustage !

[TexasFlyer]

I saw more than one mention of solid engine mounts. Can someone point me to a link for those? I would like to go that way next. Thanks!

[GigaWhiskey]

I got mine from Buckeye Perfomance. Plan for you bike to be down for a while. There is a ton of stuf to do to get to them all. That is, if you do all 6. Some do two, some do four and the braveheart do six. New exhaust crush gaskets, nuts and bolts would be good to order, you may consider the baffle removal in the collector at the same time and if that oblong thing between the cylinders leak, you may purchase the seal for that too.

[Thom]

the best 85 mph i have ever done on this bike , remember i said i raised the front and dropped the back ? i thought the weave was caused by the angle of the wind shield or fairing because it did not do it when 2 up , if somebody would try it and see if it works for them than we know what is wrong . what i did is air the front to the max and drop the rear down to 18 ilbs .

Thom