Hard Up-Shifting (Clunky)

[MasterGuns]

Ok, I have posted about this problem before and got some recommendations from adjusting the shift linkage to the type of shoes I'm wearing (??). Well, I have adjusted the linkage every which way possible with no improvement in the bad up-shifting. I've had a number of 1st Editions(6) and never had one like this. There has got to be something else causing the hard upshifting. I've just got in a complete clutch rebuild kit from Buckeye and am prepared to install new friction plates, new diaphram spring, etc., but I don't think that will help either. I am now thinking I may have a dowel pin problem (loose and/or just not fitting properly) in the shift cam. Does anyone think replacing part 6 and 8 in the microfiche will help?

 

Just in case it comes up....rebuilt the m/c, installed new slave and no air in the line.

[pegscraper]

Loose dowel pins in the shift cam can certainly cause clunky shifting. If you find the pins loose in the shift cam when you have the clutch out, I would definitely replace the parts. For an upgrade, use the pins and shift cam from a second gen bike. They are much more solid pieces and they bolt right in. All the newer RSVs, RSTDs, and VMXs use these same new shift cam parts, but you have to know to ask for them. Y doesn't acknowledge these as upgraded parts, and the dealer probably won't know it either. But they are a direct replacement. The pins will never come loose again.

[camos]

You don't mention lubricating the linkage heim joints, that is the most common cause of stiff or even jamming shifts. Having said that, I'm trying to remember if the Venture even has those kind of joints. Mine is not rideable yet and just this morning I experienced rather difficult shifting on my Virago after a couple of days rain so time to work some grease in there.

[MasterGuns]

Lynn, Thanks so much for the info. Is the first picture the only part I will need and are the pins seperate? I just need to be sure what I order from Y. I think the part number is 4NK-18185-00-00.

[pegscraper]

The thing doesn't come as an assembled unit. The shift cam and pins come separately, and one pin is longer than the others. All else is the same and these bolt right in. Here are the part numbers:

 

(1) shift segment - 4NK-18185-00-00

(1) long pin - 93604-16092-00

(5) short pins - 93604-12037-00

 

You'll need a clutch gasket too, but you should have one in the rebuild kit you got from Buckeye. You have to know to ask for the shift segment parts from a later bike or have these part numbers available. If you ask for shift segment parts for whatever year of 1st gen, the same old old-style parts is what you'll get.

 

These same parts are also used in I believe the '99 and newer VMX. So you don't have to worry that you're putting 2nd gen parts in your bike. Instead, you're putting VMX parts in your bike.

 

I've heard the VMX boys say they can destroy brand new old style parts in one day on the drag strip, but after they put these new style parts in they never have any more trouble.

 

Let us know how this works for you.

[Yammer Dan]

Sounds like you are describing the shifting of my 85. Only 24k and I can make it skip in 2nd. And I'm always missing gears with that heel toe shifter. It just don't like to get in a hurry.

[MasterGuns]

Here are the part numbers:

 

(1) shift segment - 4NK-18185-00-00

(1) long pin - 93604-16092-00

(5) short pins - 93604-12037-00

 

end quote

 

Pegscraper, I have no experience with this area and want to be sure what to expect once I am. And you seem to know exactly what you are talking about, so a couple questions please. 1) Will it be obvious where the longer dowel pin goes? 2) I ordered the star washer but one for a 2d edition, however, I think that piece should not be used in a 1st Edition as it appears to be slightly different 5 points versus 6. Is that correct? 3) Do the shift arms have to be removed first in order to access and remove the shift cam and pins? Darn, I wish there was a write-up on this part replacement on this site. Oh well.....

[Yammer Dan]

Yeah sounds like a good thing for the early 1st Gens.

 

Whats the price of those parts couldn't be that much. Now if it would just cure 2nd gear.

[frankd]

What kind of oil do you have in the bike?? When my 83 was under warranty, I complained to the dealer of it shifting like a truck. He suggested that I use Yamalube my next oil change. I did, and within 200 miles, it was shifting great.

 

I bought an 89 with only 30K on the clock last winter. It shifted a little clunky, but when you shifted from neutral to first, it always seemed the clutch wouldn't release completely. The bike would jump. It had a fresh oil change in it when I bought it, so I left it alone until we were leaving on a trip. I used Valvoline motorcycle oil (dino) and before we got out of town I noticed a big improvement in it's shifting. Now it goes into first (from neutral) with only a small clunk.

 

Frank

[MasterGuns]

What kind of oil do you have in the bike?? When my 83 was under warranty, I complained to the dealer of it shifting like a truck. He suggested that I use Yamalube my next oil change. I did, and within 200 miles, it was shifting great.

 

I bought an 89 with only 30K on the clock last winter. It shifted a little clunky, but when you shifted from neutral to first, it always seemed the clutch wouldn't release completely. The bike would jump. It had a fresh oil change in it when I bought it, so I left it alone until we were leaving on a trip. I used Valvoline motorcycle oil (dino) and before we got out of town I noticed a big improvement in it's shifting. Now it goes into first (from neutral) with only a small clunk.

 

Frank

 

I've had every type and viscosity of oil imaginable. From Amsoils, a synthetic, to Yamalube, Mobil One V-Twin, and others. Same hard upshifting. Simply can't be the oil because sometimes it will shift like butter and next time, shifts like feces.

[Dano]

I'm starting to have the same symptons on mine, but changed to a 20-50 on the last change. I'll switch back next oil change and see whats going on, but I'm going to check my shift linkage first. These do have ball & socket joints (both inside and outside the middle gear cover). Could be one of them is getting hinky (!)

[pegscraper]

1) Yes, it will be obvious where the longer pin goes. It will only go together one way. One of the holes is a through hole for some reason. That's where the longer pin goes. I couldn't see why they thought that was necessary, but that's what they did.

 

2) By star washer, do you mean the thing they call a plate stopper, #5 in the diagram? You should use your original part there. I believe that piece needs to match with the actions of the shift drum in the transmission. Hopefully you can still return the new one.

 

3) I was able to wiggle the shift linkage out of the way without removing the shift arm. I can't remember if I might have removed the external shift linkage on the other side of the engine.

 

I did this on my bike earlier this year when I did the PCW clutch kit. Here is a picture of the old shift cam and the linkage out of the way. None of these pins were tight. Three of them were extremely loose, and one was just about to fall out. The old parts use a stamped metal piece to hold the pins in place, and the tabs bend easily and let the pins loose. The new style is a solid, one piece unit. The pins aren't going anywhere. Parts cost is right around $50 or so.

[MasterGuns]

Pegscraper, By golly, thanks for the great info. You have me convinced I can do this. Anyway, I wanted to ask you if you were experiencing clunky shifting like me and had gone throught the normal procedures trying to obtain smoother shifting. Like, checking your mastercylinder, bleeding the line, trying different linkage adjustments and maybe even considered replacing or rebuilding the slave. And once you replaced the shift cam (pin thingy), did you shifting improve? I am also replacing the clutch friction plates, the spring. Hope all the helps. Thanks again for the outstanding advise.

[pegscraper]

My bike has always shifted clunky and hard and this did make some improvement. It still isn't as smooth as it should be, but I'm convinced it's still mechanical rather than in the hydraulic system anywhere. I'm not impressed with the linkage design and setup on my bike. There are too many pivot points and all of them are sloppy loose. I should replace them all. I think there should be a bearing or at least a bushing where the shift lever mounts on the floorboard that is replaceable. It is extremely sloppy and takes way too much movement before the shift arm even starts to move. I need to just replace everything.

 

I learned this one from spying on a VMX board. It pays to do a little looking around once in a while. I couldn't find a torque spec for the star screw holding the cam in place. I finally gave up and just used the calibrated wrist spec with some loctite on the screw. I don't think it's going anywhere. If you can do clutch work, this will be a cinch. It will be interesting to see what your old shift cam looks like and if this helps it.

[Yammer Dan]

I think this parts list should be in our Tech Library. I probally won't mess with mine til 2nd gear time. Not that far away but having parts list of what you need to replace then would be nice.

[GigaWhiskey]

MasterGuns, when you are done, mine will be ready for the change out. Also tagging this becuase mine shifts as you described.

[Yammer Dan]

I can understand replacing (1) shift segment - 4NK-18185-00-00

but is it necesary to replace pins if they don't look worn or bent?

[MasterGuns]

MasterGuns, when you are done, mine will be ready for the change out. Also tagging this becuase mine shifts as you described.

 

Hey, the parts are only about 40.00. I spent 59.00 but purchased stuff I won't need. If you get the parts, heck, ride over to my place and we'll do them at the same time. Two heads are always better than one. I have all the tools and even the 5 - 20 lb torque wrench. I will most likely tear into mine the weekend of the 19th; that Saturday morning; with or without ya.

[pegscraper]

I can understand replacing (1) shift segment - 4NK-18185-00-00

but is it necesary to replace pins if they don't look worn or bent?

 

The new pins are different lengths than the old ones. The new style shift segment requires the new pins. Sorry.

[MasterGuns]

I can understand replacing (1) shift segment - 4NK-18185-00-00

but is it necesary to replace pins if they don't look worn or bent?

 

 

May as well. It is an item that wears and they are only 99 cents apiece.

[Yammer Dan]

Still think we should keep that parts list somewhere. I can't see getting to mine for a while. Don??

[Freebird]

I've copied the pertinent information to the first gen tech library.

[Yammer Dan]

THANKS again Boss.

[GigaWhiskey]

Hey, the parts are only about 40.00. I spent 59.00 but purchased stuff I won't need. If you get the parts, heck, ride over to my place and we'll do them at the same time. Two heads are always better than one. I have all the tools and even the 5 - 20 lb torque wrench. I will most likely tear into mine the weekend of the 19th; that Saturday morning; with or without ya.

 

Lemme see what I have going on this weekend. Momma will have things planned and i wont know until that time. I better git on the part ordering stuff.

 

My time has been really taken up lately. My house will close soon and i will be moving into a new (to me) one soon.

[GigaWhiskey]

Talked to momma last night and she scheduled an inspector for Saturday at the house we are buying. Told ya she would, lol.