Aftermarket TCI available!

[timgray]

An update from my side, I am also chasing down the possibility of adding a TPS instead of the maps sensor to eliminate some of the issues with vac pulses and lag. I was curious as to what could be made to fit by looking at what is available in motorcycle TPS sensors.

 

I figure that more options is always a good idea.

 

it should not be difficult if I can find a place to mount the TPS and hook a linkage between it and one of the linkages on the carbs.

Edited April 18, 2011 by timgray

[tvking63]

I'm interested to see how that goes. If you're having issues with the MAP (I'm not) a TPS might work better for you.

 

I have a CBR1100XX motor that has one on it, but for some reason Honda doesn't offer is as a separate part. You have to buy a throttle body assembly.

 

On the downside, a TPS won't adjust advance based on load like a MAP will. I would think you could run more advance with a MAP because unlike a TPS, it will dial back the advance when going up a hill, carrying a heavy load, ect. even at a constant throttle opening.

[dingy]

Attached are a couple of pictures of a TPS I got when I first put the Ignitech on.

 

I don't know what car it came from. On the back, molded into the case is SERA363-4

 

I thought about mounting it under the carb rack and working the lever with the bar on the carb rack that hooks the right 2 carbs to the left 2.

 

The more I thought about it the less enthused I was about the TPS path. The MAP sensor is a better gauge of demand on the engine in my opinion.

 

Gary

[timgray]

No problems with the MAP sensor, just looking at other options for others that may have problems, or if I decided to add a turbo to the engine..... need more horsepower!

[dingy]

Just an FYI post.

 

I emailed Ignitech with a couple of questions about the TCI & the response I got back. My question in blue, the response is below that.

 

I attached map file they sent as a zipped file, this will only work on V80 of the updated software.

 

Gary

 

 

Will a 4 channel TCIP4 drive a 12Vdc Servo motor?

 

VMax Vboost gerard motor is what I want to operate.

 

Will unit be harmed by using Denso COP coils @ 1.5 ohms?

 

I am currently using V80 of software

 

Gary

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hello,

 

Yes, 4channel TCIP4 can drive 12Vdc servo motor.

 

Connection to servo motors Yamaha:

 

Yamaha wire color TCIP4 pin Description

black/brown 4 motor

black/red 5 motor

white/black 7 or 16 or 14 sensor ground

yellow/blue 17 +5V supply for sensor

white/red 18 servo position sensor

 

Right setting you must find yourself. In enclosure is V-max setting modified for servo and use COP coils.

 

Regards.

 

Jiri Krejzl

IGNITECH

[Squeeze]

Sounds more and more interesting for me ....

 

 

Most likely i'll go for a Ignitech when i get to finishing with my Injection Project one Day in somewhat distance Future.

 

Gary, I'm glad you have been able to pick the System up. Much easier Task than fitting all the Yamaha Black Boxes, ending up with almost nothing to adapt and adjust.

[carrat]

Hi guys!

I just want to say great thanks to you all and to Gary especially. You made great job taking all these things together! I also purchased Ignitech device and do hope it will be implanted into my max very soon.

Gary, this update with Ignitech respond is essential for me because I will now try to adopt my boost servo to this option in the TCIP4. I have full versoin, so it should work. The only problem i that my max is of 1988 and these settings are for new max. That's a challenge for me to change something in the file provided so I just wrote to Jan and asked him to adopt these settings for my old bike. Will see what we receive.

Any case I think that this thread is a real treaure for those who want to get maksimum performance with their bikes. Go ahead folks, this is a real University for me and I am very pleased to be in one boat with you!))))

Regards, Andrew

[dingy]

Andrew,

 

If you get an update from Ignitech on the Vboost or anything for that matter, please post it here or email it to me and I will get it posted.

 

Integrating the VBoost with the TCI is very interesting to me. With the Ignitech TCI we can control when the boost starts to open and when it reaches wide open with 10 steps of RPM input.

 

I know you are a VMax owner, but there is a lot of information on this site that is directly related to the VMaxs. Worth 12 dollars a year.

 

Gary

[dingy]

I am working with a VMax owner from the Ukraine on setting up his Ignitech unit. He also signed up as a trial member here. User name is Carrat.

 

I made a schematic of what I think is what Ignitech harness wire colors are for the 83-89 version. It is attached as a PDF.

 

He has an 88 VMax. 4 pick up coil set up, same as 83-89 Ventures.

 

Below is copy of last email he sent me after he got his unit. Red is last from him, blue is a prior response from me.

 

The attached pictures are of my Ignitech harness. These are what I mentioned in email I sent him below.

 

Any help from you guys that have one of these would be appreciated.

 

As I mentioned he is from the Ukraine, so language and grammar may be a challenge on both sides.

 

Gary

 

 

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

 

 

Gary

 

Hi Gary,

I tried to start the engine today with new TCI programmed as was reccomended by Ignitech (they sent me old v-max/venture version of settings, they are similar to the version I've already got from you). It started with a half-turn and computer showed than there was not any error. That's good news. The bad ones - is that I still have my previous problem: left rear cylinder is poping and I can see that fire comes into the carb frequently. Right rear cylinder is simply dead. I think that I need to check the phase distribution so tommorow or day after I will take off the cylinder head cover and check the camshaft position. This engine was overhauled so I assume that something was assembled wrong. "Autopsy" will show what to do further.)))

As to MAP sensor - I've already got one with connector today. I also have a vacuum canister of another bike and by the end of the week will have a receiver for all vacuum pipes. Thank you for telling me the number of pins, my harness also has 3 wires. So if engine work properly - I will install MAP sensor as TPS. Then will be a boost sensor challenge.

What concerns settings - I will stay with two pick-up coils but will copy your settings of advance map with MAP data. Then when servo will be connected and programmed I will make a dyno tests with further adjustments to get a maximum performance using your settings. Finally (if the result will be worth it) I will publish settings and graphics on both sites.

These are my plans for the nearest month. Thank you for your help and of course, I will be asking a lot more.

Regards, Andrey

 

--- Исходное сообщение ---

От кого: "Gary Dinges"

Кому: "'Andrey'"

Дата: 6 мая 2011, 23:05:17

Тема: Re: RE: Andrey from VMax Forum: Ignitech TCI

 

 

Andrey,

Just the pictures you sent may not be enough info for them, they would need a wiring diagram to relate where each wire goes to.

Attached are pictures from my jumper harness.

I am 99.999% sure the VMax is identical pin out to my Venture. This is for the VMax & Venture that have the 4 pick up coils. Ventures were 4 pick up coil from 83-89.

I know Ignitech can relate to the Venture's. I would suggest you email them and relay the similarity between the VMax & Venture. Make sure & state it is for a 4 pick up coil version.

My harness has had 3 wires added to it. Pins 7,8 & 17 were added by me. These are for the MAP sensor.

I am more comfortable using the GM map sensor than I was using the Yamaha one. But then I have a lot more room on my bike to put extra stuff in.

If you are considering the map sensor, one from a non turbo GM car, late 90's early 2000's. I got one at a junk yard for $5, be sure and get wiring connector.

There is a lot of info I have floating around in my head about this unit. Just keep asking questions & I will try to assist you.

Gary

 

@ukr.net>@dinges.com>

[tvking63]

I'm going to be out of town for at least another week so I can't be much help right now. Sorry.

[carrat]

Hi All

I am really glad to become a member of this forum and do hope that my participation will give an additional info to anybody who need it. Sorry, my English is quite poor so might be difficult in understanding.

This bike is a long lasting project and hopefully I am at the final stage.

Two days ago I took front and rear cylinder head covers off and checked the camshaft positions. Everything was perfect so I assembled all parts back.

When I checked pick-up coils the data of each of them was different, just one showed 117 ohm, other two were far above, about 185-230 ohms and the last one seemed to be dead or there was a broken wire. Ohmmeter showed nothing.

Special thanks to Gary again))) He wrote me an e-mail and pointed my attention to the fact that some Venture manuals had the common wire incorrectly shown. He wrote: “The common is the Black wire. It is the pin that is on the side that has the blank pin. There a 5 wires in this connector. Make sure you are checking the Male side of plug. That is one with the pins in it. Check with an OHM meter from the black wire to each of the 4 other pins.”

If I read this a day before!!!! At this time I had a generator cower taken out and pick up coils passed all possible examinations. The problem is that VMax manual also has the common wire shown incorrectly as orange. When I checked pick ups in correct way they showed exact 117-125 ohms which is acceptable.

Yesterday I started engine again, now with settings of Gary loaded to the Ignitech TCI and thanks God all four cylinders were running! What is interesting – I didn’t get front pipes red as it was with original TCI before. All four pipes were about the same temperature. So I hope that carbs adjustment will improve the situation completely.

Now about the MAP sensor which will be used in place of the TPS. I bought a Bosch 1 Bar sensor (3 pins) and will use it. The only thing I don’t understand is how it should work. According the information provided by Ignitech it should work for detailed advance map. I am not familiar with electricity so may be someone can advise on this point. Bike already has a MAP sensor which is connected to TCI and should work for ignition advance. Ignitech wiring was adapted to original harness and when engine worked the program showed advance for all four cylinders per each cylinder. The question is – what will be an input from TPS/MAP connected in parallel to Ignitech TCI?

The second question is: my Max already has a v-boost installed and as I understood it operates using a controller which reacts on data coming from original TCI. It starts to open the butterfly valve at 6000 RPM. I installed a t-boost modification which allows me to use boost at 3000, 6000 RPM or switch it off. V-boost servomotor resistance is 5,25 to 9,75 K-ohms. It has 5 pins +main connector, so I assume that there could be 5 positions of butterfly valve from “closed” to “open” position. Ignitech states that their TCI can operate Servo. Surely they have 10 positions of voltage depending on RPM but the problem occurs: there are only 5 possible positions of v-boost’s butterfly valve. May be it is reasonable to keep v-boost in parallel with its own controller? Any suggestions?

Thanks, Andrew

UPD. I still don't know how to insert photos... Sorry

Edited May 17, 2011 by carrat

[dingy]

Here is a link on how to post pictures on this site.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=44037

 

The wiring harness you got from ignitech probably has two empty spaces on the 8 pin connector if it is the same as what they sent for the ventures. This is where the stock boost sensor hooks up to. On the ventures they did not use the stock TCI. They left it up to us to figure it out. Look at picture #1 in post #234 above. Center plug has the right two pins blank, this is where stock boost would have been.

 

You will not use two boost/MAP sensors. One or the other. For the most part I think all of us have used a automobile style map sensor. Does your Bosch sensor have an A, B & C molded into case? Do you have any electrical info on it?

 

On Ignitech module, following pins are used to hook up MAP sensor.

 

Pin 17 is 5V ref output from TCI

Pin 6 is MAP output

Pin 7 is MAP ground

 

You don't have to use the Ignitech unit to control your V-boost, you probably won't gain much. I am interested in using it since I don't have a stock V-boost controller on the bike. Ventures don't have them.

 

This is the first I have heard of the Vboost only having 5 positions. Though that would probably be enough if it is accurate. Any more and the vboost would constantly be adjusting.

 

Gary

[carrat]

Thanks for this link Gary. Will try to upload now.

Looks like my Ignitech wiring is similar to what you have. Have a lot of work this week so will be in garage only on Saturday and will make a photos of mine. I didn't try to check how boost operates, my aim for this time was just to make engine running.

Bosch MAP sensor operates up to 5 volt and has 3 pins, I know it from the manager in the shop who sells spare parts for light tracks. If this info is not correct - I will stay with original MAP sensor. Will see.

There are two photos of boost controller which are not mine, I took them from Ebay just to show 5 pin connector.

The rest is what I did yesterday and day before)

Andrew

Edited May 17, 2011 by carrat

[dingy]

If this info is not correct - I will stay with original MAP sensor. Will see.

 

In one of the threads in this post, I recall that someone had asked people at Ignitech about using stock boost sensor and they thought it would work OK. We were concerned about the 12v input to the stock sensor and its output to the Ignitech unit.

 

Do you have a part number for the Bosch sensor you got?

 

If your V-boost is working with the stock setup, it should cycle the butterflies on the crossover intake when you first turn the key on. This is part of a self check.

 

Looks like your VMax has been modified a bunch. It appears to have a mono rear shock like the Ventures. Nice shape for an 88.

 

What kind of oil is in it that is that red?

 

Gary

[carrat]

In this case my boost operates. When I turned on it cycled butterflies to open and closed position. Of course, there will be further adjustments.

The MAP sensor p/n is 00000-00-0261230-037 Bosch. First time i thought that I will leave both sensors (original and Bosch) in parralel lines because when I started the engine with original MAP sensor the program showed advance for all four cylinders (so I think it used original MAP sensor) but it did not show TPS position. So I will connect Bosh MAP sensor to all four vacuum lines and swich it into the TCI. Just interested how it will work)))

The oil is Motul, it was tested by my friends during several races and they recommended it for heavy duty usage.

Yes, there are lot of mods on this bike, it became almost new))) I will show when finish the last ones)))

Edited May 18, 2011 by carrat

[SaltyDog]

I installed my new Ignitech TCIP4 ignitor this last weekend on my 1983 XVZ12 standard. I had started to get the dreaded tach/#2 cylinder dropouts, so I went ahead and ordered the unit on the 9th of this month and received it in less than 2 weeks. I made sure to include the request for any extra pins needed to add additional sensors to the unit. I received nine (9) extra pins for the 20 pin ignitor plug and I used three of them for the MAP sensor install. In the mean time I went ahead and replaced the glass diodes with new 1N4001 diodes. The diode install went fine and the stock TCI works perfectly. But I still don't trust it for any long distance from the house. I will keep the stock unit for a backup since I can just plug it back up in minutes without any alterations, I left the stock boost pressure sensor wired and plumbed up since it wasn't in the way.

 

I used the 1 bar GM MAP sensor as recommended and a inline fuel filter as a vaccuum cannister to help smooth out the pulses along with the vaccuum line restrictor in the vaccuum hose. I picked up my vaccuum signal from the #1 cylinder YICS vaccum port (the YICS chambers were removed years ago). I wanted to use this source for the vaccuum so I wouldn't have to pull the hose when I sync the carburetors. The vaccuum signal is really good and with all the inline components the pulses weren't too large. I used two vaccuum guages to compare the #1 sync port and the #1 YICS port with the additional canister and restrictor to verify the reduction of the pulses.

 

I downloaded the .ign file (for use with MAP sensor) from the first page of this thread and so far it works fine. Since we have had alot of rain and thunderstorms lately, I just ran the bike in the shop to check for any overheating problems or hot start issues. Today I got a break in the weather and jumped on the bike to run to town (10 miles) and fill up the gas tank. The bike ran fine for the short run and I plan to get it out this holiday weekend and get some more testing and check out the power and mileage through the hills.

 

My Windows XP tablet didn't have a serial port but I used a USB to serial cable and didn't have any problems with the communication with the TCIP4 unit. My thanks to all who have posted in this thread. I printed out all the pages and read and highlighted items I thought I would need to watch out for during the installation. If anyone has a different .ign file that they are running and would like to share just give me a shout. Any changes I make to the posted .ign file I will let the group have a copy after I verify the correct operation.

[dingy]

I installed my new Ignitech TCIP4 ignitor this last weekend on my 1983 XVZ12 standard. I had started to get the dreaded tach/#2 cylinder dropouts, so I went ahead and ordered the unit on the 9th of this month and received it in less than 2 weeks. I made sure to include the request for any extra pins needed to add additional sensors to the unit. I received nine (9) extra pins for the 20 pin ignitor plug and I used three of them for the MAP sensor install. In the mean time I went ahead and replaced the glass diodes with new 1N4001 diodes. The diode install went fine and the stock TCI works perfectly. But I still don't trust it for any long distance from the house. I will keep the stock unit for a backup since I can just plug it back up in minutes without any alterations, I left the stock boost pressure sensor wired and plumbed up since it wasn't in the way.

 

I used the 1 bar GM MAP sensor as recommended and a inline fuel filter as a vaccuum cannister to help smooth out the pulses along with the vaccuum line restrictor in the vaccuum hose. I picked up my vaccuum signal from the #1 cylinder YICS vaccum port (the YICS chambers were removed years ago). I wanted to use this source for the vaccuum so I wouldn't have to pull the hose when I sync the carburetors. The vaccuum signal is really good and with all the inline components the pulses weren't too large. I used two vaccuum guages to compare the #1 sync port and the #1 YICS port with the additional canister and restrictor to verify the reduction of the pulses.

 

I downloaded the .ign file (for use with MAP sensor) from the first page of this thread and so far it works fine. Since we have had alot of rain and thunderstorms lately, I just ran the bike in the shop to check for any overheating problems or hot start issues. Today I got a break in the weather and jumped on the bike to run to town (10 miles) and fill up the gas tank. The bike ran fine for the short run and I plan to get it out this holiday weekend and get some more testing and check out the power and mileage through the hills.

 

My Windows XP tablet didn't have a serial port but I used a USB to serial cable and didn't have any problems with the communication with the TCIP4 unit. My thanks to all who have posted in this thread. I printed out all the pages and read and highlighted items I thought I would need to watch out for during the installation. If anyone has a different .ign file that they are running and would like to share just give me a shout. Any changes I make to the posted .ign file I will let the group have a copy after I verify the correct operation.

 

Sent you an email with my last ign file in it.

 

Gary

[dingy]

In this case my boost operates. When I turned on it cycled butterflies to open and closed position. Of course, there will be further adjustments.

The MAP sensor p/n is 00000-00-0261230-037 Bosch. First time i thought that I will leave both sensors (original and Bosch) in parralel lines because when I started the engine with original MAP sensor the program showed advance for all four cylinders (so I think it used original MAP sensor) but it did not show TPS position. So I will connect Bosh MAP sensor to all four vacuum lines and swich it into the TCI. Just interested how it will work)))

The oil is Motul, it was tested by my friends during several races and they recommended it for heavy duty usage.

Yes, there are lot of mods on this bike, it became almost new))) I will show when finish the last ones)))

 

 

Andrew,

 

The advance that you are seeing on your laptop display is due to the RPM's increasing.

 

If you don't see the TPS setting changing, then you have no vacuum advance working.

 

You need the vacuum advance hooked up and functioning to get into the power band of the motor.

 

Gary

[MartyRobin]

I am brand new to this forum but have been stealthing it for about a year. Decided to subscribe since the info is so great. I have a 1988 VR. Last fall the TCI nuked. I looked here for answers. Boy did I find them!

 

I ordered the TCI from the Check Republic in April of 2011 for $225 American. Included shipping. Came with iginition, CD and lots of extra pins.

 

Installed the ignition and map sensor in less than an hour. Decided to simply plug and play without changing to the settings for the map sensor. WOW! Did my bike wake up from its previous life. Performance is better in every way. I will be changing to the map sensor map soon. I have not checked the mileage as I've only run one tank of gas but am planning a long ride this weekend.

 

Thank you to Venture Rider for the place and to timgray, tvking63 and everyone else for the excellent research and for taking the time to share it!

[carrat]

Hi everybody. Finally I synrconized my carbs and good news are that all four cylinders work! But I still have doubt if I made it correctly. All needles show the same position but is this position correct? Don’t' have any idea. May be you guys can help with it? (video attached)

Ignitech TCI. Gary, I connected 1 Bar MAP sensor as was recommended but it seems to me that it does not work. Is it a program or sensor fault? Please take a look at video. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[dingy]

Hi everybody. Finally I synrconized my carbs and good news are that all four cylinders work! But I still have doubt if I made it correctly. All needles show the same position but is this position correct? Don’t' have any idea. May be you guys can help with it? (video attached)

ffice:office" />>>

Ignitech TCI. Gary, I connected 1 Bar MAP sensor as was recommended but it seems to me that it does not work. Is it a program or sensor fault? Please take a look at video. Any suggestions?>>

Thanks! >>

 

 

Only thing I can think off that may be causing this is incorrect wiring of the MAP module.

 

If you power the Ignitech unit up, you should be able to read 2-5Vdc from pin 6 to pin 7 on the connector to the TCI. This voltage should vary as vacuum is applied to the MAP sensor.

 

You should have constant 5vdc from pin 7 to pin 17 with TCI powered up.

 

Attached is a picture of my wiring harness. The three red arrows point to the 3 additional wires I added for the MAP sensor. Your wire colors may be different.

 

Gary

[SaltyDog]

I know when I first wired up my 1 bar GM map sensor for my ignitech install, I didn't get any output either. I went online to verify the connections and I had the 5V line on the wrong pin. I went online and found this layout for the connections. Just make sure you have the 5V, ground and sensor output wires correctly hooked up to the Ignitech unit.

[carrat]

Thank you guys! Will sever contacts, check everything and try to connect again. Fingers crossed:)

[MartyRobin]

Took the bike on a 300 mile this past holiday weekend. Both of us were on the bike the entire weekend. Using the Ignitech TCI with the MAP sensor but using the plug and play settings we got 35 to 38 miles per gallon. Better than what I got before.

 

The performance was excellent as well. Acceleration was superb, no pings, no knocks no hesitation.

 

I'm impressed.

[frankd]

It looks to me like the vacuum guages are indicating about 9.5" of mercury and on the other video you're bike is idling @ 1000 rpm. I just synced the carbs on my 89, and at 1,000 RPM, mine had about 11.5" of mercury. Is your ignition timing set correctly? Maybe it's retarded a little??

 

Frank