Aftermarket TCI available!

[tvking63]

Yes, Todd is tvking.

 

For what your doing, the first post is all you really need. I try to keep it updated with the most current info.

 

Toward the bottom of that first thread there is a link to my latest non-MAP sensor file. It will make a huge improvement over the map it comes shipped with.

[Lassesand]

Thank you Todd for a quick and precise answer

This weekend I have wrestled with the exhaust system in search for a leak. Found that the seals at the end of the two rear stumps where gone! Did find a small hole at the collector (can be welded) and a loose baffle inside it. I must order new seals and fix the leaks before next attempt to start it. Thanks again anyway!

/Lars

[6m459]

Hi,

 

With the Ignitech box installed, w/o a MAP sensor, and running Todd's map file (from the first post) appropriate for this setup, I am still finding that my bike is running somewhat hotter than I recall, especially since I am now operating it in the predawn cooler fall weather. (It was down to less than 2 deg C at my house yesterday at 05:30hrs!)

 

On my 65km / 40mi trip from home to work yesterday, the temp gauge was showing at the high 2/3 of the normal zone when moving and was getting up to the bottom of the red zone when waiting at lights etc. Average ambient temp for the journey was likely (optimistically) somewhere around 10 deg C. Previously I would have expected to see the temp gauge in the low end of normal.

 

I still have trouble with hot starts. (I keep meaning to mod my starter with the better internal grounding expounded by dingy ET-AL but alas, there is only so much time in the day and it doesn't look like a 5 minute job with all that plumbing in the way.)

 

I got stranded on my commute yesterday morning. After buying my take away coffee, close to work, the bike was a no go. I wound up leaving the bike where it was and walking the remaining distance. When I came back at midday, the bike was cooled down and started up just fine.

 

On the ride down, I'd had my electric gloves on (2 amps max) and a seat heater (3 amps max). I had the controller at about 75% so I was drawing say 3.75 amps more than a stock bike's load. Seems like peanuts but admittedly, the seat heater is a new addition. I watched the voltmeter closely on the ride and its behaviour seemed normal, above 12v except when waiting at lights etc. I don't think I have a charging issue.

 

I am thinking of going back to the OEM CDI box till I have time to either add the MAP sensor or mod the starter or both if I dream in technicolor. I will watch the operating temps carefully for comparison if I do.

 

Thought this might be of interest, hope I am not muddying up the TCI thread.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian H.

[saltcreep]

Can you tell me with the Ignitech box in place does your bike activate the fuel pump when you 1st turn the key on?

 

Mine came in yesterday, as far as I can tell it appears to be wired correctly. The diagram of the TCI Wiring is for the MK I and mine appears to be a good bit different, I have the wiring diagram from the service manual, but that does not show all of the connections, it just list the wire colors from their plug and then you can trace them down in the schematic.

[tvking63]

Yes, on my '84 with the IgniTech box, the pump runs when you turn the key on. But it only runs until it builds pressure. So if you turn the key off and then right back on it doesn't run because the pressure is still there.

 

Are you having a specific problem? Does your pump run?

 

The diagram of the TCI Wiring is for the MK I.....

What diagram? From where?

 

On your '92 the L/R (blue w/ red) wire should have power on it when the key is turned on. This powers the FP relay which then runs the pump.

 

Here is a link to Dingy's improved wiring schematic for a '92. The FP is on the right side above the color codes.

[dingy]

Can you tell me with the Ignitech box in place does your bike activate the fuel pump when you 1st turn the key on?

 

Mine came in yesterday, as far as I can tell it appears to be wired correctly. The diagram of the TCI Wiring is for the MK I and mine appears to be a good bit different, I have the wiring diagram from the service manual, but that does not show all of the connections, it just list the wire colors from their plug and then you can trace them down in the schematic.

 

 

Your wiring will look different from the MKI units. The 83-89 bikes had 4 pickup coils. You only have one.

 

The fuel pump operation should not be changed with the use of the Ingitech unit.

 

You do have the option of having the Ignitech unit control the fuel pump, but this would be a modification from the way it is supplied.

 

TvKing63 gave you a link to the simplified version of the schematic, if you want the one with all the connectors shown, it is linked below.

 

http://www.venturerider.org/wiring/90-93%20Yamaha%20Venture%20DA%20Wiring%20Diagram%20Rev%20C.pdf

 

Also, since you have the single pickup version, your software will be set up different. Don't download any maps from here and upload into your module. You can download and copy the timing map from any of them, but the data will have to be manually entered into the TCIP4 software.

 

Gary

[6m459]

FWIW:

 

I emailed Ignitech about a week ago to ask about some spare pins. They promised to send some asap. They just turned up in today's mail.

 

Can't do much better than that!

 

Cheers,

 

Brian H.

[saltcreep]

Thanks man! That is very helpful. The Yamaha one was not right as far as fuel pump goes.

 

 

On the 83 model the fuel pump relay was powered by the ignition it seems, and on my unit the power for it comes from the TCI... That pin does not have anything connected on the Ignitech unit. The Blue/Red wire is not connected I mean.

 

Forgive my ignorance here, but will the fuel pump cut off if I power the relay from the ignition when it builds up pressure? I see there is a fuel pump pin on the ignitech, but I'm looking for simplicity

 

----------------

 

I am not getting a start, it doesn't show error codes on the pickup or coils on my laptop when trying to start it. Everything seems ok on how it is hooked up , I am not sure about the coils from the ignitech being hooked to the correct coils on the bike. It just came in yesterday afternoon, so I'm still troubleshooting.

My bike was not starting before receiving the ignitech unit either.. maybe a pickup coil problem.

[tvking63]

.

 

You do have the option of having the Ignitech unit control the fuel pump, but this would be a modification from the way it is supplied.

Gary

 

On the MKII it looks like the TCI, whether it's the stock one or an IgniTech box, does control the FP. Since that is the case, I cannot tell if the FP is powered on the MKII when you 1st turn the key on or if you have to crank it so the ignition box sees RPM and then powers the FP relay.

 

 

 

 

On the 83 model the fuel pump relay was powered by the ignition it seems, and on my unit the power for it comes from the TCI... That pin does not have anything connected on the Ignitech unit. The Blue/Red wire is not connected I mean.

 

I would think you would want the L/R wire connected to pin #3 on the IgniTech box. I don't understand why it didn't come that way from IgniTech.......

 

Can you post a pic of the harness that came with your IgniTech box?

 

 

Forgive my ignorance here, but will the fuel pump cut off if I power the relay from the ignition when it builds up pressure? I see there is a fuel pump pin on the ignitech, but I'm looking for simplicity

 

It should. On a MKI the FP is powered all the time the key is on and only runs when the pressure drops. I would think the MKII is the same, so if you don't want to connect L/R to pin #3 on the IgniTech box, you should be able to connect your L/R to Gy and be OK. That's the way a MKI is wired. The Gy wire goes to #2 cyl coil and to the FP relay. Here is the MKI simplified diagram.

 

 

 

 

 

 

FWIW:

 

I emailed Ignitech about a week ago to ask about some spare pins. They promised to send some asap. They just turned up in today's mail.

 

Brian H.

 

Did they charge you anything?

[dingy]

On the MKII it looks like the TCI, whether it's the stock one or an IgniTech box, does control the FP. Since that is the case, I cannot tell if the FP is powered on the MKII when you 1st turn the key on or if you have to crank it so the ignition box sees RPM and then powers the FP relay.

TVKing63 is correct, the 90-93 ventures control the fuel pump directly out of the TCI on a Blue with Red tracer wire.

 

The 83-89 units tie into the TCI output for #2 cylinder. When the key switch turns on the TCI then energizes all 4 coils. This also sends 12v to the fuel pump relay which then powers up for about 5 seconds. This 5 second power up time is controlled by an electronic circuit in the fuel pump relay pack.

 

When the TCI fires the spark plug, the 12v is removed from the coil circuit, which causes the secondary to fire the plug. A TCI differs from a CDI in that CDI's energize the coil to fire the plug.

 

Do not power the fuel pump directly from the Ignitech unit. You must use the stock relay circuit or you will damage the TCI. The fuel pump requires more current than the Ignitech unit can provide.

 

Gary

Edited September 29, 2010 by dingy

[37 bell]

you did a good job on the pictures on the tci:mustache:

[saltcreep]

If you have a minute can you look at this and see if I am missing something... I have not tested to see if I am getting 12v from the Ignition coil plugs from the Ignitech unit, that is my next step.

 

I am not getting spark to any plugs... with the stock TCI I get one spark on all cylinders on initial crank and then no more, with the ignitech no spark at all.

 

In the video it showing RPM and it looks like it thinks that it is firing the coils, so I am guessing my p/u coil is fine.

 

 

Ignitech to yamaha plugs

http://www.haveparrotwilltravel.com/gallery2/albums/userpics/2a.jpg

 

Ignitech unit plug

http://www.haveparrotwilltravel.com/gallery2/albums/userpics/1a.jpg

 

My interpretation

http://www.haveparrotwilltravel.com/gallery2/albums/userpics/Capture3.JPG

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meutsV1ZDTc]YouTube - Ignitech TCI Troubleshooting[/ame]

[dingy]

If you have a minute can you look at this and see if I am missing something... I have not tested to see if I am getting 12v from the Ignition coil plugs from the Ignitech unit, that is my next step.

 

Couple of things seem odd on the main connector to the Ingitech module.

 

Pin 2 shows as not used in the Ingitech manual and has a gray wire in your photo.

 

Pin 11 shows not used and has a brown wire in your photo.

 

Gary

[dingy]

Compare your module connector wiring to the wiring Todd posted in post #1.

 

There are 3 extra wires in that photo for the map sensor that you won't have.

 

If you still are having problems, I will look at my module tomorrow night.

 

Gary

[tvking63]

 

Pin 2 shows as not used in the Ingitech manual and has a gray wire in your photo.

 

Pin 11 shows not used and has a brown wire in your photo.

 

Gary

 

What I'm seeing is different than what Dingy has or sees.

 

My pin 2 has a gray wire and pin 11 has a brown wire just like saltcreep and the IgniTech manual shows pin 2 is for the #3 coil and pin 11 for #4 coil. In fact I don't see any IgniTech pins that show as unused.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/5034628703_54932d0458_z.jpg

 

Looking at the Yamaha 90-93 wiring diagram and the IgniTech schematic I'm pretty darn sure you are wired correctly. You do need to verify that pin B goes to pin 16 and pin 7 goes to pin 14. They are both blue wires and The Crimson Knight already had one where 2 wires of the same color were switched.

 

If those are in the right places then it's not a wire harness issue.

 

The fact that the stock TCI fires the plugs once and the IgniTech box doesn't may just be do to the internal circuitry being different.

[dingy]

What I'm seeing is different than what Dingy has or sees.

 

My pin 2 has a gray wire and pin 11 has a brown wire just like saltcreep and the IgniTech manual shows pin 2 is for the #3 coil and pin 11 for #4 coil. In fact I don't see any IgniTech pins that show as unused.

 

 

 

I was looking at the pinout chart in the manual.

 

2 & 11 are shown as not used in chart, but are used in his picture.

 

There could be a discrepency in documentation.

 

His main connector & the one shown in post #1 differ at pin #8.

 

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af193/gdingy101/ignitechcut.jpg

 

Gary

[saltcreep]

 

His main connector & the one shown in post #1 differ at pin #8.

 

 

 

Gary

 

My documentation shows the same chart, the pin #8 on the Ignitech plug is going to the B/W wire on the 6-prong plug which goes to the kickstand/fallover safety switches. So it should be a ground coming in. I think maybe that should be in position #7 instead of #8, like on tvking's picture.

[saltcreep]

Problem Solved!

 

In the software there was an option for input #1 (Off/Kill/Blocking)

It was set to blocking on mine. When I set this to off it fired right up!

 

Ok, I know I need to figure it out so it will kill the bike if the sidestand is down or it has fallen over, but IT WORKS! Woohoo!

 

http://images.zaazu.com/img/motorcycle-motorcycle-smiley-male-smiley-emoticon-000287-large.gif

[tvking63]

I was looking at the pinout chart in the manual.

 

2 & 11 are shown as not used in chart, but are used in his picture.

I now see chart in the IgniTech manual you were looking at. Pin 2 & 11 say "not used in standard".

 

We need pins 2 & 11 because our V4's are not "standard".

 

On a typical inline 4 cyl engine, 2 pistons are at TDC at the same time. Usually 1 & 4, then 2 & 3. Of the pair at TDC, one is on the compression stroke ready to have the air/fuel ignited, the other at the end of the exhaust stroke. The ignition system fires both of these spark plugs at the same time. The spark on the piston at TDC on the compression stroke fires the fuel and the spark on the piston on the exhaust stroke does nothing since there is just a little exhaust gas in there. Exactly 360° of engine rotation later, the same 2 pistons will be at TDC again, but this time the one at compression and the one at exhaust will be switched and the same 2 spark plugs will fire. The spark on the exhaust stroke is called a waste spark. Manufacturers do this to simplify the system and reduce parts. Only 2 coils are needed, one for each pair of cylinders.

 

On our V4's there are never 2 pistons at TDC at the same time (IIRC) and the degrees of engine rotation until a piston comes to TDC varies from one piston to the next. This makes it necessary to have 4 coils and fire each spark plug individually. That's why pins 2 & 11 are used along with pins 1 & 10. We need to fire 4 coils, each by itself.

 

 

 

 

His main connector & the one shown in post #1 differ at pin #8

 

I noticed that too. On the IgniTech box there are 2 switching inputs to be used for sidestand, clutch, brake ect. Mine is using pin 19 (input 2) for the sidestand and his is using pin 8 (input 1). This could be correct for his bike depending on how the IgniTech box is programmed and I cannot tell without his program which he just sent me.

 

 

 

Problem Solved!

 

In the software there was an option for input #1 (Off/Kill/Blocking)

It was set to blocking on mine. When I set this to off it fired right up!

 

Ok, I know I need to figure it out so it will kill the bike if the sidestand is down or it has fallen over, but IT WORKS! Woohoo!

 

 

I was looking at that last night. Your wiring is setup to use Input 1 for your sidestand not Input 2 like my MKI. (see above). In the video you posted, I was concerned about the red rectangle in the lower right of the software. This is where the input info, along with other stuff is displayed. I couldn't read what it said and the info displayed there is different than mine because of the different programming. That's why asked you to send me the map file.

 

Now that I have the file I can see that the red block contained the words "motor off". That's why it won't start as you found out.

 

Try setting Input 1 to Kill Switch. That's how my sidestand input is set. That should let it run but kill the engine if you put the sidestand down.

 

Glad you got it figured out!

Edited January 23, 2011 by tvking63
Spelling

[saltcreep]

For anyone reading this (This is only for a '92 venture)

 

I know this does not match the schematic, but the coil wires coming from the TCI are (+) 12v and not negative. The L/B (Blue/Red) wire for the fuel pump relay needs a switched negative connection, this is also different from the schematic. I tested this with my original TCI... I at 1st connected the l/b to the gy wire, as that would seem to make the most sense, the bike would crank , but not go above idle, the fuel pump didn't run.

 

I ran a jumper to the l/b to the ground on the battery and the bike runs wonderfully now.

I think this will be an ok solution for me as I do not ever leave the bike switched on without it cranked, and the (+) to the fuel pump relay is still handled through the ignition switch. On my xj6 the fuel pump is the same way it is always powered if the car is in Run.

 

 

I know some others of previous years have said they have noticed reduced power, etc... but in my case I am VERY pleased... My idle was crappy before, the bike lopes at some really low idle now.. have not checked, looks like 500-600rpm. The idle is lower for some reason, I know I need to adjust this, but it would not stay cranked a lot of times at anything below 1000 rpms with my messed up stock tci. My bike would fart & chuff & do mini-backfires coming off the throttle before, it does not do that at all now. It feels like it has more power now.... I know this is just probably because my TCI was really bad off and this is closer to how it should run.

 

really seriously appreciate the work forged by others (Todd!) or I never would have known about this or ever thought to attempt it. Thank you so much Todd & Dingy for all the work you have done to help us all out

[tvking63]

Edited on 10/02-10

 

Thanks to Dingy for noticing that the wiring change happened in the '90 model year, not at the MKI-MKII changeover in '86.

 

 

The L/B (Blue/Red) wire for the fuel pump relay needs a switched negative connection.....

 

After looking at the diagram further, it looks like a MKI 83-89 uses power on the Gy wire to energize the FP relay and a MKII 90-93 uses ground on the L/B wire.

 

I ran a jumper to the l/b to the ground on the battery and the bike runs wonderfully now.

I think this will be an ok solution for me as I do not ever leave the bike switched on without it cranked, and the (+) to the fuel pump relay is still handled through the ignition switch.

 

I don't see why that won't work. I still don't understand why the L/B wire isn't connected to pin #3 in the adaptor harness from IgniTech. Had that been the case, you would have plugged it in and started the bike right up instead of all the head scratching.

 

 

 

 

From the IgniTech manual....

 

FUEL PUMP RELAY output.

 

Fuel relay is switch on while the motor is running, for about 4 s after the unit is switched on and for about 4 sec. after motor has stopped. One fuel pump relay outlet should be connected to connector (3) and the other one should be connected to key switched + 12V. Connect the switched fuel pump relay circuit following the diagram

Have you tried the L/B on pin #3?

 

I know some others of previous years have said they have noticed reduced power, etc... but in my case I am VERY pleased... My idle was crappy before, the bike lopes at some really low idle now.. have not checked, looks like 500-600rpm. The idle is lower for some reason, I know I need to adjust this, but it would not stay cranked a lot of times at anything below 1000 rpms with my messed up stock tci. My bike would fart & chuff & do mini-backfires coming off the throttle before, it does not do that at all now. It feels like it has more power now.... I know this is just probably because my TCI was really bad off and this is closer to how it should run.

I think part of it is that it ran like crap before, but having looked at the map that came with your MKII IgniTech box I can say it's much more aggressive than the one that comes with the MKI box. In fact, I'm a little concerned that it might ping. Have you had a chance to put many miles on it? Edited October 2, 2010 by tvking63
info correction

[Lassesand]

I just want to say you Todd!

Today I have made the first ride with my -84 XVZ with the Ingitech TCI and it seems to work OK! The main problem (the over 2000 rpm idle etc) was that the carbs were totally out of synch and that the exhaust system had several leaks. After extensive welding and and optical synch I think it works great! Low and steady idle (1000 rpm) and good respons when pulling the trottle. I synched the carbs by looking at the butterfly valven after removing the trottles. The fact that they are reflective made things easier. A more precis synch may make it go even better but this is good enough for me right now.

[tvking63]

Good to hear you've got it running pretty well.

 

Using an actual carb sync tool will probably make a big difference though, so you might want to look into that sooner rather than later.

[dingy]

For the members using the Ignitech unit:

 

There is a new version of the TCIP4 software and guide posted on the Ignitech site. It would not download for me from the page titled downloads. Said Reauested document not found. I did find a working link on another page of the site.

 

Go to the link here on their site to get it. Both of these links will start download right away from Ignitechs site directly !!

 

TCIP4.EXE (version 80)

 

Detailed description version 80 (Acrobat Reader)

 

This version updates the *****.ign file that is programmed into the module. Once it is opened and then saved with this version, the old version of the software will not open it. You will get a warning box when you first open ****.ign files saying it is an older version and some parameters that are new are being set to default values.

 

I have not tried this new version in bike because it is not in any condition for that now.

 

Gary

[tvking63]

That's for the info Gary. I'll have to DL the software and have a look.

 

Somebody downloaded the "with MAP sensor" file today. Is someone adding a MAP to their system? Post up, let us know how it's going.