Aftermarket TCI available!

[timgray]

That is a link to Ingitech and not to where the Triumph forum of guys using this box and getting a vac sensor to work on it as was mentioned above.

 

I found ingtech's info, and I'm talking with them but I really want to read about what the Triumph guys are doing with it and making it do things that Ingitech is not including, like the vacuum sensor to replicate the stock TCI.

[RandyR]

That is a link to Ingitech and not to where the Triumph forum of guys using this box and getting a vac sensor to work on it as was mentioned above.

 

I found ingtech's info, and I'm talking with them but I really want to read about what the Triumph guys are doing with it and making it do things that Ingitech is not including, like the vacuum sensor to replicate the stock TCI.

 

I posted a link to the Triumph forum thread here also... Let me search for it again.

 

I know I posted this before, I'm not sure what happened to it. Here's the link to the Triumph Forum.

http://www.triumphrat.net/hinckley-classic-triples/99853-igniter-remap-and-low-cost-stock-replacement.html

 

The Triumph rider IrlMike is the one with the most experience with the Ignitech, if you want his email address, I'll ask him if I can give it out to you.

Edited September 16, 2009 by RandyR

[timgray]

Awesome info randy, there was enough there to give me what I need. I am confident I can replicate the "Boost sensor" operation on our bikes with ths IgnitorTCI.

 

A GM 1 bar MAP sensor puts out a 0-5 volt signal based on the vacuum in the intake. This is essentially what our boost sensor does. The ingitech box wants a 0-5 volt signal for a Throttle Position sensor to modify the spark map. well the same 0-5 volt signal can be used from a GM MAP sensor to do the same thing.

 

The value of this Ingitech box now just jumped up a lot. Plus I talked to them and they have a 4 channel unit that will not need to do waste spark and can use both crank pickup coils. I believe it's their racing box, and it has an output to trigger "Nitrous" or a exaust servo. that can trigger a VBoost unit that someone would install from a Vmax. so this Ingitech box would allow someone to install vboost and get it to work just like it does on a VMAX. Note: the regular unit can do this, use the shift indicator light to trigger a servo to open the Vboost valve to have vboost kick in above X,XXX rpm's only.

 

and yes I would love to be able to pick his brains if he is willing to talk to me. Thanks a bunch.

[RandyR]

I don't have either IrlMike's or your email. So I just PM'd Mike on the Triumph Forum and asked him for his address, I'll PM it to you when I get it. I'm sure he'll want to talk with you.

[Pegasus1300]

To TVking63

You or someone asked when Yamaha went to the 1300 motor but I didn't see anyone reply to that.The 1986 model was the first with the 1300 motor.

[Squeeze]

.... that can trigger a VBoost unit that someone would install from a Vmax. so this Ingitech box would allow someone to install vboost and get it to work just like it does on a VMAX. Note: the regular unit can do this, use the shift indicator light to trigger a servo to open the Vboost valve to have vboost kick in above X,XXX rpm's only.

 

and yes I would love to be able to pick his brains if he is willing to talk to me. Thanks a bunch.

 

This Otput Signal won't operate a V-Boost Servo. YOu need to feed the RPM Signal to the V-Boost Brainbox. This Blackbox operates the Servo, nothing else works.

 

 

I believe, a 1bar Vacuum Sensor is not a very good Solution for Spark Advance Measurementson our Bikes. Maximum Vacuum you see at a Manifold is around -0.6 bar, so this Spread in Measuring Ranges you give away a Lot of Pressure/Voltage Ratio.

[timgray]

This Otput Signal won't operate a V-Boost Servo. YOu need to feed the RPM Signal to the V-Boost Brainbox. This Blackbox operates the Servo, nothing else works.

 

 

I believe, a 1bar Vacuum Sensor is not a very good Solution for Spark Advance Measurements on our Bikes. Maximum Vacuum you see at a Manifold is around -0.6 bar, so this Spread in Measuring Ranges you give away a Lot of Pressure/Voltage Ratio.

 

If the Vboost servo is a standard servo the new ECM might as it has a servo control output on it. Otherwise switching the vboost servo to one that is supported would be doable.

 

 

All it needs to be able to do is read the range, then set the tables inside the TCI to switch to the new spark profile after the VAC signal get's past the trip point. I agree that fitting a GM 1 bar and then doing some test runs with my logging Voltmeter to figure out what points and what it sees is required, but I think it will read the range needed. I dont need the full range, I only need a stable trip point. If I can read that and have the new TCI react to that reliably. That's all that matters. I only want to replicate the stock TCI at this point.

[timgray]

Does anyone know how long it tkaes for these guys to ship their TCI? I havent heard from them for over 2 weeks now so I was wondering if it takes them a month or two to build and test one?

 

If you bought an Ingitech TCI how long did it take from when you paid to when you got it in your hands?

[tvking63]

I bought the first one they ever made. It took 15 days from the day I sent Paypal money.

 

After I paid, I didn't receive any conformation from them. After several days I had to send an e-mail to find out if they received payment and if it was sent.

 

I'd e-mail them and ask for a status update. I get the impression they are a very small outfit that it pretty busy. It seems to help to keep after them.

[painterman67]

Im waiting on reviews. For the few of you out there that have one does it work correctly or am I reading the post incorrectly. The way i read it was you were having problems tuning or getting the timming advance to work correctly. Any input will be apreciated as its getting hard to find one for a 91 at a decent price and this is dsefinatley a decent price.

 

 

 

David

[Jrichard]

In '90 they changed to a single timing pickup. '89 and prior had a double...

 

26H-81670-10-00 1989

3UF-81670-00-00 1990

 

 

The TCI's also changed.

 

 

26H-82305-10-00 1983

41R-82305-11-00 1984-1989

3JJ- 82305-11-00 1990-1993

Bikebandit.com----has'em for $850------also PartShark.com----for $756 and change!:mo money:

[Holgi]

Im waiting on reviews. For the few of you out there that have one does it work correctly or am I reading the post incorrectly. The way i read it was you were having problems tuning or getting the timming advance to work correctly. Any input will be apreciated as its getting hard to find one for a 91 at a decent price and this is dsefinatley a decent price.

David

 

Hello David!

I just made my full 1 year membership to make it possible posting a answer on your questions.

I bought some weeks ago a good optical condition XVZ12TD (made app.1986, sold 1998) with 47.000km, offered with non working TCI. And after i inspected it to recognize that it also need a full service i bought it for small money. I proposed to let the TCI repair in a shop that offers TCI repair for app.300$US.

But after a little search i found this forum including the infos of the Tchech Republic made Ignitech TCI`s.

I ordered one immediately, made the service, and one arrived after a little more than two weeks. Unfortunately due a mistake this was a Ducati TCI, and after i contacted Ignitech, Jan shipped a correct TCI again.

Took another less more than a week to arrive, but this TCI was as promised. Just plugged it, and the bike runs for 500Km since. I don`t know how the bike should run with the OEM TCI, but i am satisfied. I dont know what ich should change or tune in the ready programmed and plugged TCI because i would not change this running system.

In the next weeks, after i am sure that everything works properly i will take a ride to germany where i could test the maximum speed.

Finally, if you just need a TCI to ride your bike to daily work, and don´t trust the new OEM TCI (maybe also produced 25years ago), this aftermarked solution would be the best you can get for your money.

So go for it, and forgive if i stumble in your language.

Best regards

Holger

[tvking63]

Im waiting on reviews. For the few of you out there that have one does it work correctly or am I reading the post incorrectly. The way i read it was you were having problems tuning or getting the timming advance to work correctly. Any input will be apreciated as its getting hard to find one for a 91 at a decent price and this is dsefinatley a decent price.

 

 

 

David

 

As far as I know, I'm the only one with an Ignitech box for a first gen w/ 4 pick-up coils. Your 91, I believe only has 2 pick-up coils and Ignitech has had that one available for some time.

 

The timing curve that came pre-programmed is, in my opinion, not nearly advanced enough. My power and fuel economy were noticeably down. I've been tweaking the curve and have settled on one that has restored my power and MPG w/o causing the engine to detonate. At least nothing I can hear. Thinking about wiring up a knock sensor to be able to monitor possible pinging better.

 

It looks like timgray is working on a solution that would incorporate the pressure sensor. I think that would be the best solution.

 

When I get a few moments I'll update the original post with info and a link to download my modified map.

[painterman67]

Hello David!

I just made my full 1 year membership to make it possible posting a answer on your questions.

I bought some weeks ago a good optical condition XVZ12TD (made app.1986, sold 1998) with 47.000km, offered with non working TCI. And after i inspected it to recognize that it also need a full service i bought it for small money. I proposed to let the TCI repair in a shop that offers TCI repair for app.300$US.

But after a little search i found this forum including the infos of the Tchech Republic made Ignitech TCI`s.

I ordered one immediately, made the service, and one arrived after a little more than two weeks. Unfortunately due a mistake this was a Ducati TCI, and after i contacted Ignitech, Jan shipped a correct TCI again.

Took another less more than a week to arrive, but this TCI was as promised. Just plugged it, and the bike runs for 500Km since. I don`t know how the bike should run with the OEM TCI, but i am satisfied. I dont know what ich should change or tune in the ready programmed and plugged TCI because i would not change this running system.

In the next weeks, after i am sure that everything works properly i will take a ride to germany where i could test the maximum speed.

Finally, if you just need a TCI to ride your bike to daily work, and don´t trust the new OEM TCI (maybe also produced 25years ago), this aftermarked solution would be the best you can get for your money.

So go for it, and forgive if i stumble in your language.

Best regards

Holger

 

 

I thought you did a great job with the language. More than i could do if I were to try to translate it into yours. And thanks for the update. I am looking but have a little time to decide..

 

 

 

thanks again

David

[6m459]

Holger, thanks for the report. I am glad to hear you have revived your dead Venture!

 

Your English was entirely understandable and quite easy reading. I certainly couldn't do such a report in your language.

 

Please keep us up to date about your further testing and your Germany speed tests. Please keep it safe.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian H.

 

 

Hello David!

I just made my full 1 year membership to make it possible posting a answer on your questions.

I bought some weeks ago a good optical condition XVZ12TD (made app.1986, sold 1998) with 47.000km, offered with non working TCI. And after i inspected it to recognize that it also need a full service i bought it for small money. I proposed to let the TCI repair in a shop that offers TCI repair for app.300$US.

But after a little search i found this forum including the infos of the Tchech Republic made Ignitech TCI`s.

I ordered one immediately, made the service, and one arrived after a little more than two weeks. Unfortunately due a mistake this was a Ducati TCI, and after i contacted Ignitech, Jan shipped a correct TCI again.

Took another less more than a week to arrive, but this TCI was as promised. Just plugged it, and the bike runs for 500Km since. I don`t know how the bike should run with the OEM TCI, but i am satisfied. I dont know what ich should change or tune in the ready programmed and plugged TCI because i would not change this running system.

In the next weeks, after i am sure that everything works properly i will take a ride to germany where i could test the maximum speed.

Finally, if you just need a TCI to ride your bike to daily work, and don´t trust the new OEM TCI (maybe also produced 25years ago), this aftermarked solution would be the best you can get for your money.

So go for it, and forgive if i stumble in your language.

Best regards

Holger

[tvking63]

Updated the original post to show the map I am currently running.

[6m459]

Updated the original post to show the map I am currently running.

 

Thanks Todd !

 

Brian H.

[timgray]

Im waiting on reviews. For the few of you out there that have one does it work correctly or am I reading the post incorrectly. The way i read it was you were having problems tuning or getting the timming advance to work correctly. Any input will be apreciated as its getting hard to find one for a 91 at a decent price and this is dsefinatley a decent price.

 

 

 

David

Timing advance does not work at all. it is intentionally disabled because the TCI can not talk to the wierd sensor on the bike. I will be attempting to make mine work by using a GM 1 bar sensor (if I can get a 1/2 bar sensor that would rock, but they dont exist) because they already put out the 0-5V signal the new TCI wants.

 

It will be a DYI setup that will require tearing the bike down to install it. the only place I can find to install the GM 1 bar sensor is where the old TCI and boost sensor was. I also will be designing it for a 83 venture. my timing maps will not work on a 86+ as someone else will have to replicate what I do and go through the testing and retesting to get a working map.

 

I was hoping to find someone that had a timing map for the bikes that shows what it is doing when the pressure sensor changes but have yet to see or hear of one. Which means it will be a very long process of trying to see what works by guess and by golly.

[Yammer Dan]

Hello David!

I just made my full 1 year membership to make it possible posting a answer on your questions.

I bought some weeks ago a good optical condition XVZ12TD (made app.1986, sold 1998) with 47.000km, offered with non working TCI. And after i inspected it to recognize that it also need a full service i bought it for small money. I proposed to let the TCI repair in a shop that offers TCI repair for app.300$US.

But after a little search i found this forum including the infos of the Tchech Republic made Ignitech TCI`s.

I ordered one immediately, made the service, and one arrived after a little more than two weeks. Unfortunately due a mistake this was a Ducati TCI, and after i contacted Ignitech, Jan shipped a correct TCI again.

Took another less more than a week to arrive, but this TCI was as promised. Just plugged it, and the bike runs for 500Km since. I don`t know how the bike should run with the OEM TCI, but i am satisfied. I dont know what ich should change or tune in the ready programmed and plugged TCI because i would not change this running system.

In the next weeks, after i am sure that everything works properly i will take a ride to germany where i could test the maximum speed.

Finally, if you just need a TCI to ride your bike to daily work, and don´t trust the new OEM TCI (maybe also produced 25years ago), this aftermarked solution would be the best you can get for your money.

So go for it, and forgive if i stumble in your language.

Best regards

Holger

 

 

GREAT JOB!! Glad to have you. This is getting very interesting if I could just understand it. You guys are going WAY OVER my head but end result is there a aftermarket TCI for the 1st Gens?? I'll keep watching if you don't mind. I have a 1st Gen or 2 or 3 or 4 aw who's counting...

[tvking63]

I also will be designing it for a 83 venture. my timing maps will not work on a 86+ as someone else will have to replicate what I do and go through the testing and retesting to get a working map.

 

 

Tim, I assume you planning on using manifold vacuum instead of ported vacuum like the stock 83 boost sensor uses? That would make the map work for all 83-86 bikes.

 

Edit:

 

Sorry, stupid question. I had a brain cramp. You'd have to use manifold vacuum as ported wouldn't be enough to work the senor much at all.

Edited October 1, 2009 by tvking63

[timgray]

MAP sensor will be connected where they do it on 84+. I will cap off and abandon what they did on the 83.

 

I am actually testing two units. the GM 1BAR that is found on most 82-99 cars and the one for the Geo metro that was used on their 900CC 3 cyl engine. Mostly because both of those are ones I have laying around, and they are the cheapest you can buy at any auto store, AND output a 0-5V signal for the TCI to understand. I am thinking the Geo Metro one is more sensitive because of the tiny engine it is attached to. Only way to know is to get the TCI and the bike running and measure some readings while the bike is running on the stand. It's hard to get full details on these items, It seems that car makers think that if you understand how their sensor work then the economy will collapse and zombies will rise from the streets.

 

Update: I just got my TCI from Ingitech. Had to cut a phone call with Don short so I can run out and plug it in.. So nice to hear it run on 4 cyl again, but it's not running "right" it's running a bit laggy. throttle roll on from idle to about 1800K is acting like the timing is not right, after 2500rpm it runs much better. This is unloaded in the garage on the stand. I also found a knock sensor to add to the engine so I can try and detect pinging.. http://www.viatrack.ca/ is the kit I will use.

 

Now the fun begins! get it back together enough to get a couple rides in before the weather makes it impossible, and start messing with the MAP sensor.

 

I loaded the spark map at the top of this thread and it runs MUCH better than the one that comes in the box. I need to do more testing but it's a great starting point if not pretty darn close. This box has a very limited adjustment, there are only 10 cells to work with, so getting it this close may be good enough for most....

 

Remember everyone, you hold complete liability for using any and all information I post on this. It's your fault if you did what I said and your bike explodes, you get hurt, or your engine get's ruined. I am not an expert by any means in motorcycle ignition, I could be 100% wrong at any moment. If anyone is hoping for a plug in and go replacement that has a guarantee that it will not destroy their bike, it will not happen. The Ingitech TCI may fail and cause spark to detonate heavily blowing up a piston. Programming here might be wrong and do the same thing.

Edited October 1, 2009 by timgray

[tvking63]

I have laying around, and they are the cheapest you can buy at any auto store, AND output a 0-5V signal for the TCI to understand.

 

I don't know if you're aware but the ECM on GM (and a lot of other) vehicles outputs a 5v reference signal to power the sensor. I'd think you'll have to duplicate that voltage to get it to work correctly.

 

 

It seems that car makers think that if you understand how their sensor work then the economy will collapse and zombies will rise from the streets.

 

I hate zombies.

 

Update: I just got my TCI from Ingitech. Had to cut a phone call with Don.........

 

I think you meant Todd.

 

 

 

I loaded the spark map at the top of this thread and it runs MUCH better than the one that comes in the box. I need to do more testing but it's a great starting point if not pretty darn close. This box has a very limited adjustment, there are only 10 cells to work with, so getting it this close may be good enough for most....

 

Good to hear it runs much better, maybe my map isn't too screwed up.

[timgray]

 

I think you meant Todd.

 

Good to hear it runs much better, maybe my map isn't too screwed up.

 

OOPS!

 

Yeah, Todd, that's what I meant OOPS!

 

The Ingitech has a +5V output for sensors. I need to ask them if it can support a MAP sensor, I know it can support a Throttle Position sensor as that is what was used on the triumph forums.

 

Side note, thinking about knock and knock detection... This TCI actually could be tuned to take advantage of higher octane fuel. I was sitting there looking at the spark map and thinking, "If I get knock, I could just fill up with premium..." which means I really need to make sure that I am running unmodified cheap gas when doing spark map testing. I think any fuel additives will cause octane modification and may hide ping/knock that would happen in clean cheap fuel.

Edited October 2, 2009 by timgray

[Holgi]

By the way,

could anyone explain me how to connect the Ignitech TCI with my PC?

I plugged it direct in the back of my PC, but the Ignitech programm could not find the TCI. Does it only work with the TCI connected to the bike? Or do i need a special cable?

Thank you

Holger

[timgray]

By the way,

could anyone explain me how to connect the Ignitech TCI with my PC?

I plugged it direct in the back of my PC, but the Ignitech programm could not find the TCI. Does it only work with the TCI connected to the bike? Or do i need a special cable?

Thank you

Holger

 

It must be in the bike and the bike turned on but not running. it get's its power from the motorcycle.

 

never EVER upload a new set of settings to the bike while it is running. you can easily damage the bike that way. I learned this second hand as a buddy reloaded a program into his car's Computer while it was running on the dyno. Blew out a headgasket and bent a rod as the computer ignited the fuel at random times while the program was uploading.

 

you CAN stay connected and watch system readings and see where on the spark map the bike is running. but do not change anything and click on upload when the engine is alive and running.