Aftermarket TCI available!

[tvking63]

Last Updated 11/11/13

 

I will do my best to keep this post updated with the latest info.

 

For now, this is only information for 83-89 (MKI)

 

This is a continuation of a discussion that started here.

 

The cliff notes......

 

A company in the Czech Republic, IgniTech, makes replacement ignition boxes and was working on one for 1st gen VR's. I had had several used TCI boxes take a dive and felt the need for a new TCI rather than installing another 20 year old used part, so I decided to pursue the IgniTech solution.

 

After a few e-mails in broken English, I was able to provide them with the additional info they need to complete the development for a 1st gen box and I ordered one up.

 

When ordering your own, tell them you want a TCIP4 for whatever year Yamaha Venture you have. 83-89 boxes and programming are all the same but because of the language barrier I'd be as specific as possible. It would be nice if they implemented a part # system but no such luck so far.

 

Note: The stock 83 TCI is not the same as 84-89. But for the purpose of ordering a IgniTech TCI, they are the same.

 

 

Their current pricing, including shipping and taxes is 157.14 Euro.

At current exchange rates, that's $223.83

You can do the conversion here.

 

 

 

This is what was in the shipping box.

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/3881510658_52c2e48a85.jpg

 

The ignition box, depending on the programing, works on a bunch of different bikes, so the harness is to mate the box to the Venture harness.

 

The bag of pins that match the box side of the harness are to add wires to perform functions not used on the VR or to add in a MAP sensor.....more on that later.

 

The CD contains software that lets you alter the ignition curve and some other parameters. You plug the pigtail on the box into a serial port on your laptop to access those functions. It will run OK on the stock map but leaves something to be desired.

 

It's substantially smaller than the stock TCI

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2493/3883265968_09565e407a.jpg

 

Looking at the connectors, I see that they combine the 4 pick-up coil wires into 2 inputs to their box. (the brown and yellow wires)

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2608/3883367448_c210082490.jpg

 

They had said that they would need to do this to make it work.

 

We will connect two pick ups together because our ignition has only two inputs. We have to connect pickups that work one after another.

We need to know order how cylinder go to TDC. Order how cyliners are in high postions not order how they works.

I believe that's why they needed the order in which the pistons come to TDC from me.

 

I also noticed the the 2 wires for the pressure sensor are not there. This means that in this configuration there is no vacuum advance like the stock TCI

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2455/3883369706_578f1be0e0.jpg

 

It runs fairly decent without the stock pressure sensor but adding a MAP (vacuum) sensor back into the mix really wakes it up. More on that later.

 

 

I had already moved my TCI to the top of the airbox so installing it was a piece of cake. I used some Scotch brand Dual Lock (part# RF9730) to mount it to the airbox cover. It's Velcro-like stuff, but has interlocking pins that create a more positive grip.

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2601/3883268106_256d897483.jpg

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/3882477735_b2905d9759.jpg

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2523/3882480987_ec4bba4254.jpg

 

It clears the tank cover with no problem and doesn't push it up at all like the stock TCI did. I kinda tucked the serial connector up and out of the way.

 

 

Edit on 9-30-09 updated info

 

After putting approximately 500 miles on it, fuel mileage was off (verified) and power seemed down (seat of the pants).

 

I found some info on their website that suggested the the pre-programmed advance curve might just be a guess on their part.

 

Is unit set precise to my bike or I muss correct this injection map by myself?

 

We have accurate map for some bikes. Setting for most bikes is approximate only. It is make by function “New”. We don’t advise to do tuning without appropriate tools and experience.

 

So using the supplied software, I started adjusting the advance curve. It isn't possible to copy the stock TCI curve since the Ignitech box doesn't use the pressure sensor, so I basically added advance across the board until it started to ping during a 2000rpm, 3rd gear roll on. I even went so far as to stop and let it idle until the fan came on to get it as hot as possible before testing.

 

Then I dialed it back, slowly, until it didn't ping anymore and then a touch more just to be safe.

 

Here is the pre-programmed curve.

 

 

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2640/3897735550_cf24b7543e_o.jpg

 

 

This is what I ended up with.

 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2005/4506033451_d562c0f614_o.jpg

 

 

Mileage and power are much improved. I rode an entire season with it tuned like that. But it still lacks some part throttle response compared to stock.

 

At the bottom of the post is a link to this file and instructions on how to load it into your TCIP4.

______________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

If you're willing to invest a little more time and money, you can get an experience as good as or better than stock.

 

 

Even though the bike ran pretty well with the modified map, timgray mentioned trying to put a vacuum sensor back into the system and this got me to thinking.

 

The IgniTech box is set up for using a Throttle position senor input but not a vacuum sensor, but it seemed like with a little 'creativity' it could be made to work.

 

After input from Tim and others, it was decided to use a GM MAP senor. (MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure, it's basically a vacuum sensor) For reasons that you can read in the thread, I don't think using the stock vacuum sensor is the best option, but I'm still looking into that possibility.

 

After some head scratching and trial and error, I was able to install a MAP sensor and ignition timing map that works pretty darn well. The throttle response is much improved along with MPG. I feel it runs as good or better than the stock TCI. For details about how I arrived at this configuration, you can read through the thread.

 

Here are some additional parts you will need for the MAP sensor installation.

 

1- General Motors 1 Bar (non-turbo) MAP sensor and connector.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4809338814_03c324d519_t.jpg

 

1 - Vacuum restrictor - Dorman# 47311, NAPA# CRB 2618, Usually found in the "Help" section at auto parts stores or you can order one here.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4809350006_de61dcbc3f_t.jpg

 

 

3 butt connectors to attach your 3 - 1ft. pieces of wire to your MAP sensor connector.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4094/4808737617_a0aa590e79_t.jpg

 

3 - connector pins from the bag that came with your IgniTech box. Note: at least one member didn't get any additional pins, so if you are planning on running a MAP sensor, you might want to request them from IgniTech or order some additional ones from their site.

 

3ft. of vacuum hose. 3/16 worked for me but it's a bit tricky since not everything you need to hook up is the same size.

 

3ft. of gauge wire, 3 - 1ft pieces of different colors would be best.

 

 

I used a General Motors, old style (larger) MAP sensor. Sensors for newer cars are smaller, but tend to be more expensive. One from any non-turbo car will work. You'll also need the corresponding connector. Here at Rock Auto is a sensor and connector for a 9 Chevy Pickup for less than $50.

 

Edited on 11/11/13 to update purchase links and add VPV and NAPA sensor info

 

The original sensor link above no longer includes the connector. Here at is a link to the connector you will need.

 

Member KISA found this MAP sensor on eBay.

 

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5528/10813201475_0f68ae7def.jpg

 

It's a Finnish company. They are currently priced at $40 US, including shipping, and come with the connector you need. I'm not having an issue with the GM sensor I have but I ordered a VPV MAP sensor because it looks more compact and easier to mount on a vertical surface then the GM. It took several weeks to get since it's shipped from Finland. Now that I have it, it looks like a quality unit. It has a billet aluminum housing and rubber insulated mounting points. I don't have it on yet, it will probably be a winter project.

 

Here is the ebay link but who knows how long that will be good.

 

You can also order them from www.piilix.fi but it's a bit of a convoluted process. On their homepage it says "Mainly selling low cost overstock batches". And the VPV Racing website, with the help to Google Translate, says "VPV Motor Racing has stopped working", which I believe means they're out of business. So these will probably go away at some point.

 

Your local NAPA dealer can get you the connector under part# EC14

And a MAP sensor under part#'s PS10075, 2-1961, or 3-1961

 

Or you can go to your local salvage yard or auto parts store. Chevy used the same one on non-turbo vehicles from the early 80's until early 2000's. A 1990 Chevy P.U. with a 350 engine is good vehicle to use when having the parts guy look it up.

 

Thanks to timgray,

Here is another source for a MAP sensor. They also have a connector w/o the pigtail that makes it so you don't have to use the butt connectors. It's a little more difficult to do but results in a cleaner look.

 

 

 

You need to connect your new hose to the #1 or #2 cyl. sync port. On 84-89's remove the vacuum hose that goes to the stock vacuum sensor and just let it hang out of the way. On my 84 it was on the L.R. cylinder (#2) but it's my understanding that most are on the L.F. (#1).

 

On 83's the stock vac sensor goes to a ported source on the #2 carb. You could remove the hose and cap the fitting on the carb or just leave it connected since the stock sensor won't be used anyway.

 

On my 84 there was a hose connector/fitting a couple inches from the carb. I disconnected the hose there, put in my new restrictor, then added the new hose, routed around the carbs and behind the frame tube and and tucked the MAP sensor in just to the left of the fuel filler.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4093/4810745879_0e346f1357_b.jpg

 

To wire it up, connect pin A on the MAP sensor to pin 7 (ground) on the TCIP4, pin B to pin 6 (sensor voltage) and pin C to pin 17 (5v ref).

 

Edited on 11/11/13 to include VPV Racing sensor pinout and update pinout images easier to understand

 

For the VPV Racing sensor, The Red wire on the sensor (pin 1) goes to pin 17 on the TCI harness, Black (pin 2) to pin 6 and Blue (pin 3) to pin 7.

 

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2875/10814737246_e5cb6586f3_z.jpg

 

 

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5510/10814735346_0e151e2a4a.jpg

 

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2869/10815083995_abb0e30369.jpg

 

 

This is what my finished MAP install looks like. My wires are plenty long but I wasn't sure were I was going to put the sensor when I started. Also, disregard the black wire, it was for testing purposes. I ran the vacuum hose up from the carb, behind the frame tube, to a spot just behind the airbox.

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6133/5924665643_8f4f97f009_o.png

 

 

The sensor tucks in right next to the gas cap splash guard on an angle. I slid the extra wire length between the guard and the airbox. I looked at all kinds of places to mount it and brackets to hold it but this is simple and works great. Once the faux tank cover is on, it can't go anywhere and has been fine for several thousand miles now.

 

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6021/5924667343_e414b545f3_o.png

 

 

Note: These files are for 83-89 (MKI) bikes only.

 

Here is a link to the latest non-MAP sensor file. Use at your own risk!

 

Here is a link to the latest file to use with a GM 1 Bar MAP sensor. Use at your own risk!

 

Edit on 7-5-11 to clarify programming info

 

You will need a laptop with a serial port or a USB to serial adaptor. The adaptors can be temperamental but it's worked fine for some.

 

After clicking on one of the above links, click the "Download" button and save the file to your Desktop. To install a new map in your IgniTech TCI you have to connect a computer to the serial port on the TCIP4. The TCIP4 has to be plugged into the bike with the key on too, so a laptop works best.

 

Insert the CD and open the file on the CD called 090715a_tcip4.exe. This is the IgniTech programming software. In the IgniTech software click the "Folder" button.

 

Note: It seems the latest TCIP4's are being shipped with updated programming software, version 80. The file is named 100907a_tcip4A_v80.exe.

 

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5013/5448184931_e2cd52d823.jpg

 

Then navigate to your Desktop and select the file you downloaded, either "Venture without MAP sensor" or "Venture with MAP sensor".

 

Note: If you're using v80 software, You will get a warning popup. Click OK and continue.

 

 

Then click Program.

 

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/5448185023_1cc707c2f8.jpg

 

In the lower right of the software you'll get a notification saying "Program device" with a progress bar. When it's done it says something like "Program OK'' in green. I don't remember for sure. I'll try to get a screen shot of that soon.

 

Close the program, turn off the key, disconnect the PC and go for a ride!

 

I now have over 5000mi on my IgniTech TCIP4 without a single hiccup.

Edited November 14, 2013 by tvking63
Programming clarification

[Snaggletooth]

Thanks for pursuing this. It would be an interesting change for our bikes. Keep us posted on how things develope as you get some miles on it.

 

Mike

[a1bummer]

Ya, I would like to see later updates on this as well. Also, maybe this should get added to the tech library?

[Tony1M]

Do I smell just a bit of the odor of a group-buy?

[Yammer Dan]

Interesting. I think this should be in our Tech library.

[rhncue]

This is an update to a discussion that started here.

 

The cliff notes......

 

 

I will update this after I get some miles on it.

 

Do you know if this will work with all of the 1st gens including the 83 and 90 - 93?

 

Dick

[flb_78]

If one can reprogram it and change the ignition curves and rev limiters with it, that's a GREAT buy!!

[Thom]

thanks , please keep us updated . yep another GB ?

[MiCarl]

Looks like what they've done tying the inputs together is create a "wasted spark" ignition system. Firing two plugs at a time - one is the one entering the power stroke and the other is in the exhaust stroke (wasted). Real common on inline fours because that lets them use only 2 pickups and 2 coils (due to the timing of the V engine they had to wire in all four pick ups).

 

Do you know if this will work with all of the 1st gens including the 83 and 90 - 93?

 

Dick

 

I know that the 90-93 system is quite a bit different than the 84-89. At minimum the box would need different programming and wiring harness. I know nothing about the 83 TCI.

[RandyR]

Good to hear its working so far. A number of Triumph triple owners are now running their TCI's, some straight factory settings, and a couple people have played with reprogramming them successfully. The Hinckley Triumphs don't have a vaccuum advance, but one of the Ignitech buyers has added a vaccuum advance, so I know that can be done if for some reason its wanted/needed.

[tvking63]

First off, I think as new info is available, I will update the original post to keep things from getting to spread out.

 

Looks like what they've done tying the inputs together is create a "wasted spark" ignition system. Firing two plugs at a time - one is the one entering the power stroke and the other is in the exhaust stroke (wasted). Real common on inline fours because that lets them use only 2 pickups and 2 coils (due to the timing of the V engine they had to wire in all four pick ups).

 

I believe that's what they did too. That's why they need to know the order that the pistons came to TDC. (not the firing order)

 

 

I know that the 90-93 system is quite a bit different than the 84-89. At minimum the box would need different programming and wiring harness. I know nothing about the 83 TCI.

 

Do you know if this will work with all of the 1st gens including the 83 and 90 - 93?

 

Dick

 

They say they already had a program for the 86 to 93 XVZ13 because it uses only one pick-up coil. But I have other info that suggests that the VR didn't go to a single P.U until 90. The language barrier is killing me. (I guess they speak much better English than I do Czech) Anybody know for sure when the transition was? Did the connectors change when they went to a single P.U.? And what year did they go to 1300cc?

 

The 83's are different, the vacuum sensor goes to ported vacuum instead of manifold vacuum like the 84's and later. But this should be a moot point since the IgniTech box doesn't use the vacuum sensor input.

 

If one can reprogram it and change the ignition curves and rev limiters with it, that's a GREAT buy!!

 

One can. I've been playing with it a bit. I'll post up when I have more info.

Edited September 7, 2009 by tvking63

[rhncue]

First off, I think as new info is available, I will update the original post to keep things from getting to spread out.

 

 

 

I believe that's what they did too. That's why they need to know the order that the pistons came to TDC. (not the firing order)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They say they already had a program for the 86 to 93 XVZ13 because it uses only on pick-up coil. But I have other info that suggests that the VR didn't go to a single P.U until 90. The language barrier is killing me. (I guess they speak much better English than I do Czech) Anybody know for sure when the transition was? Did the connectors change when they went to a single P.U.? And what year did they go to 1300cc?

 

The 83's are different, the vacuum sensor goes to ported vacuum instead of manifold vacuum like the 84's and later. But this should be a moot point since the IgniTech box doesn't use the vacuum sensor input.

 

 

One can. I've been playing with it a bit. I'll post up when I have more info.

 

This is what I assumed for the "83" but I still thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

 

Dick

[Squidley]

Todd,

 

Here is a program that might help you in the translation department

 

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

 

I believe that Russian is close to czech, so I would try to use a Russian to english on the bablefish and see how that goes

[Condor]

In '90 they changed to a single timing pickup. '89 and prior had a double...

 

26H-81670-10-00 1989

3UF-81670-00-00 1990

 

The TCI's also changed.

 

26H-82305-10-00 1983

41R-82305-11-00 1984-1989

3JJ- 82305-11-00 1990-1993

Edited September 3, 2009 by Condor

[jasonm.]

look in the manual and use a timing light to confirm the ignition advance is correct at the specs. vs. rpm. If it's the same it's good. Remember the vacuum sensor was to prevent advance being too fast under load....like pulling a trailer. To prevent "ping"/knock.

[6m459]

Thanks for the update Todd and such excellent detail. I second the motion that Todd's report be filed in the tech library.

 

Good news indeed! I am looking forward to future news too, please keep us posted on how it runs in the field and any tweaks that you do to the settings.

 

Thanks again.

 

Brian H.

[tvking63]

Ok, I've got about 350 miles on it. It seems like with the pre programmed advance curve, power and throttle response are down. My mileage numbers won't make any sense for the rest of you as I'm pushing a sidecar, but they have come down too. I switched back to the stock TCI several times to make sure (hopefully) the reduced power and TR wasn't just in my head.

 

But there is a bit of a glitch to my impressions though. I have an 84 but I'm running a 83 TCI. Long story, but I need to get the bike going and that was what was available at the time. Soooo, I'm running a TCI design to have the pressure sensor hose run to ported vacuum and on an 84 it runs to manifold vacuum.......

 

I wish I had an 84-89 TCI to compare to the IngiTech box.

 

I did find this on their website.

 

Is unit set precise to my bike or I muss correct this injection map by myself?

 

We have accurate map for some bikes. Setting for most bikes is approximate only. It is make by function “New”. We don’t advise to do tuning without appropriate tools and experience.

So who knows if it's anywhere near the right mapping.

 

look in the manual and use a timing light to confirm the ignition advance is correct at the specs. vs. rpm. If it's the same it's good. Remember the vacuum sensor was to prevent advance being too fast under load....like pulling a trailer. To prevent "ping"/knock.

 

Excellent idea, except that the IgniTech box doesn't use the pressure senor so the timing won't vary with load. So I think matching them up would be a crap shoot.

 

Remember the vacuum sensor was to prevent advance being too fast under load....like pulling a trailer. To prevent "ping"/knock.

 

That makes sense but that would mean that the pressure senor is used to reduce timing under load. It appears to me that the manual shows that increasing vacuum reduces advance. That would have the opposite effect. Under load, engine vacuum goes down and so should advance to reduce the chance of detention/preignition. Hmmmmm. http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/style_emoticons/22306set/eusa_think.gif

 

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3530/3897667176_2ab8f313b4.jpg

 

Maybe they have the captions reversed?

 

The good news is that modifying the map and adding advance seems to get the response and power back.

Edited January 21, 2011 by tvking63
grammer

[Condor]

Did you see this one on Ebay??...

 

1984 Yamaha Venture Royale CDI Module T1D14-28 41R-10 4

[tvking63]

Did you see this one on Ebay??...

 

1984 Yamaha Venture Royale CDI Module T1D14-28 41R-10 4

 

No, I didn't but I already have a new IgniTech box and a 83 TCI that I don't need. Don't need to spend more money on boxes I don't need.

I was hoping I might 'borrow' one for testing purposes.

 

FWIW, my 83 TCI definitly increases timing with increasing vacuum at the pressure sensor.

 

Also Jasonm's suggestion won't work because much above idle, oil blows out of the inspection hole at an alarming rate.........

[Condor]

Don't need to spend more money on boxes I don't need.

I was hoping I might 'borrow' one for testing purposes.

 

OK my bad. I just thought that from your previous post you were looking for an '84 TCI. Did realize you wanted to 'borrow' one. Good luck

[tvking63]

I do wish I had one to use to compare to the IgniTech box. But laying out hard earned cash just for comparison, is another story.

[bongobobny]

Well, the price is now $79 after me unsuccessfuly bidding on it. The last two went for around $140...

[Dano]

It went for 102.51, I just missed checking it before it ended. Another one went for same price. There's one on there starting at 99 bucks. I'm kinda watching that one for the next couple of days. I think the ones going for 50 bucks anymore is over with. They've figured this one out!

 

Dano

[timgray]

does anyone have the links to the triumph forums where there are other people messing with this box?

 

If there is a way to get the boost/vac sensor put back into the loop on it I may decide to spend the long dollar and buy one.

 

I'd have to start from scratch as having an 83 I'm sure the timing curves are different than the 84 on up as everyone says that an 83 can only use an 83 TCI.

 

Unless someone has the full details on the 83 versus the 84 for timing and ignition that I can look at.

[RandyR]

does anyone have the links to the triumph forums where there are other people messing with this box?

 

If there is a way to get the boost/vac sensor put back into the loop on it I may decide to spend the long dollar and buy one.

 

I'd have to start from scratch as having an 83 I'm sure the timing curves are different than the 84 on up as everyone says that an 83 can only use an 83 TCI.

 

Unless someone has the full details on the 83 versus the 84 for timing and ignition that I can look at.

 

I posted that link in the origonal thread. do a search and you should find it.

 

There are a number of people running the Ignitech box, they are past the messing with it stage.